What did MBL say to get banned for a week?

[MusashiAOE]

What is suprising about this post is not the blantant ignorance by Misqus (honestly many of us maynot even see this as he is being ignored), but the folks who are giving thumbs-up. Really?

Maybe because some people haven't fallen into the sad mentality of getting offended on other peoples behalf. It's amazing to see how having thick skin was once admirable but is now is almost non-existent

 

[Umdeuter]

You keep reframing that as an issue of individual feeling.

This is not about being offended. Ffs.

Twitch banned him. Twitch was not offended. Twitch enforced their policies against homophobic speech.

Reframing that as a matter of individual feeling is a strategy used to normalise homophobia.

 

[TheCapybara]

Maybe because some people haven't fallen into the sad mentality of getting offended on other peoples behalf. It's amazing to see how having thick skin was once admirable but is now is almost non-existent

Jeepers, we're seeing a lot of this bizarre attitude.

If you had a friend who someone insulted using racist or homophobic language, would you be upset with the person who said the insult? If the answer is 'yes', then why on earth should we not apply this standard to people whom we don't call friend? Does not being friends with someone mean it's acceptable to stand by and let them be the subject of abuse?

If the answer is 'no', then I think we have a far more concerning problem entirely about how individualistic people are if they don't see the abuse of their fellow humans as something to get upset about.

As for 'thick skin': objecting to harmful and abusive behaviours does not make a person 'think skinned'. It's a completely natural reaction.

 

[orangereaper]

Maybe because some people haven't fallen into the sad mentality of getting offended on other peoples behalf. It's amazing to see how having thick skin was once admirable but is now is almost non-existent

Well, there is a fine line.
If someone is not offended by other making insults and ridiculous comments, then yes they are more tolerant/patient/thick-skinned/can-handle-what-is-being-dished-out etc etc.
However, if someone is not being offendded by 'inappropriate' comments (racist slurs, homophobic references etc etc.) then they are a) ignorant b) insensitive c) one-themselves.

Folks in a) can be redeemed. b)/c), they are because they choose to be.
My claim it not to covert people or their opinion, thats not my place. However, I can differentiate right from wrong. (and I'm ok to be critiqed for it).

 

[danh_]

noob like mbl should be banned for a year, he always lose very soon in TN then what is the point of playing and streaming all day, he should marry slam

 

[govs]

As a homosexual vegan I feel much more offended by the Brittish meaning of the F- word:
" A type of food; it is made from a pig’s heart, liver and the fat belly meat, minced and mixed together with breadcrumbs and herbs for seasoning. The mixture is then shaped into balls each of which is wrapped in caul fat from the pig’s omentum, each of these individual balls is a faggot. They are then cooked and served in a thick gravy with peas and mashed potatoes. ".

Anyone eating that should get a permaban!

 

[Misqus]

Maybe because some people haven't fallen into the sad mentality of getting offended on other peoples behalf. It's amazing to see how having thick skin was once admirable but is now is almost non-existent

Students Vs. Mexicans: Cultural Appropriation

What is cultural appropriation? Is it okay for a white person to celebrate the culture of a nonwhite country? Will Witt took to UCLA and Olvera Street -City ...

youtu.be

:D

 

[Clemensor]

Maybe because some people haven't fallen into the sad mentality of getting offended on other peoples behalf. It's amazing to see how having thick skin was once admirable but is now is almost non-existent

So if a homosexual person was reporting him and subsequently another homosexual person was deciding to go ahead with the ban, the desicion wouldve been alright in your eyes?

 

[RobChang]

What is this thread. If you dont like twitch rules then dont be there. Or if you wanna have a legal/moral discussion about how some gentlemen's rules are hurting your perception of what free speech means then argue with Mr.Twitch. MbL is not in private, he is in public, he represents not only himself but the AoE2 community and the platform. Not losing any brain cell and being able to avoid certain insults when losing game of chess and just stay with **** **** and others should be expectable. If you wanna have some private rant session with him without any limits of decency, nobody will stop you. He is partnered with Twitch, he gets money from them for his work, I am sure you also wouldnt argue with a penalty by your boss if you act inresponsibly and you as a free lancer might have insulted a customer and dont start to say: "This is free speech and if they dont like the way I serve them, then they should not choose to come to me. I am, what I am." MbL saw his mistake and apologized, and therefore there should be no discussion by others in his stead about whether it was justified or not or if there is any other to blame than him. It is just mature. We all do mistakes and with the lession learnt and sincere regret the thing should be off the table.

 

[govs]

What is this thread. If you dont like twitch rules then dont be there. Or if you wanna have a legal/moral discussion about how some gentlemen's rules are hurting your perception of what free speech means then argue with Mr.Twitch. MbL is not in private, he is in public, he represents not only himself but the AoE2 community and the platform. Not losing any brain cell and being able to avoid certain insults when losing game of chess and just stay with **** **** and others should be expectable. If you wanna have some private rant session with him without any limits of decency, nobody will stop you. He is partnered with Twitch, he gets money from them for his work, I am sure you also wouldnt argue with a penalty by your boss if you act inresponsibly and you as a free lancer might have insulted a customer and dont start to say: "This is free speech and if they dont like the way I serve them, then they should not choose to come to me. I am, what I am." MbL saw his mistake and apologized, and therefore there should be no discussion by others in his stead about whether it was justified or not or if there is any other to blame than him. It is just mature. We all do mistakes and with the lession learnt and sincere regret the thing should be off the table.

With all due respect, this thread has grown beyond MBL. Its more about semantics and peoples perception of morals, as well as a very interesting Gen. x discussion. Amazon is one of the largest companies in the world and with that comes a responsability. They should not set the moral standards, we should! A partnership is mutual, w/o streamers no Twitch. Without Idiots no Amazon (No Amazon in Sweden due do lack of Idiots and due to their non-human work conditions). Mbl did wrong and made amends, but please let the discussion roam free!. Bitte Schön

 

[The_Philos]

Amazon is one of the largest companies in the world and with that comes a responsability. They should not set the moral standards, we should! A partnership is mutual, w/o streamers no Twitch. Without Idiots no Amazon (No Amazon in Sweden due do lack of Idiots and due to their non-human work conditions)

Actually it's not only Amazon's decision, but also the companies' which want to advertise on Twitch and may have a problem running an advert at a stream where slurs are the norm. I'm sure, Amazon don't really care about minorities or people in general, but they care about loosing money. So it's more an incorporated agenda to be an advertfriendly platform. Same goes e.g. for Youtube, where the restrictions are even harsher.
This doesn't mean that this norm is "company made", it results probably from studies where negative talk leads to a negative experience/feeling/thinking or whatever by the viewer which will also be connected to the ads. So in a way, society, as we are now, has set this moral standard.
I for myself can live with a moral standard, where we look out for each other in a respectful way. This doesn't mean that you have to follow these standards, but if you want to use platforms like YT or Twitch then you'll have to follow their guidelines. In my opinion it's pretty weak to defend the freedom of speech with the freedom of insults, at least I can't see the benefit in allowing these words to be said. But I guess it's too much to ask for people to change their behaviour.

On topic: MbL slipped, regretted and apologized like every mature person would do, so case closed.

 

[govs]

Actually it's not only Amazon's decision, but also the companies' which want to advertise on Twitch and may have a problem running an advert at a stream where slurs are the norm. I'm sure, Amazon don't really care about minorities or people in general, but they care about loosing money. So it's more an incorporated agenda to be an advertfriendly platform. Same goes e.g. for Youtube, where the restrictions are even harsher.
This doesn't mean that this norm is "company made", it results probably from studies where negative talk leads to a negative experience/feeling/thinking or whatever by the viewer which will also be connected to the ads. So in a way, society, as we are now, has set this moral standard.
I for myself can live with a moral standard, where we look out for each other in a respectful way. This doesn't mean that you have to follow these standards, but if you want to use platforms like YT or Twitch then you'll have to follow their guidelines. In my opinion it's pretty weak to defend the freedom of speech with the freedom of insults, at least I can't see the benefit in allowing these words to be said. But I guess it's too much to ask for people to change their behaviour.

On topic: MbL slipped, regretted and apologized like every mature person would do, so case closed.

OT
I find it hard to disagree, but, for arguments sake . I find a healthy discussion very refreshing. I do somewhat believe that todays moral norms are "company made". Suddenly we use hearts and cute emojes, ban foul language but still vote for Trump, shoot eachothers (in Sweden at least) and call out people for being non PC. The second biggest political party, SD Rightwinged Idiots, in Sweden would never have rised to power if there would have been an open moral/ethic debate in media w/o screaming racist to anyone voting for them. Thus, I enjoy the somewhat intellectual AOE2 community discussing. And oc I dont support any use of Pejoratives.
Sry for the OT

"Only thing worse than disagreeing, is agreeing"

 

[Clemensor]

The second biggest political party, SD Rightwinged Idiots, in Sweden would never have rised to power if there would have been an open moral/ethic debate in media w/o screaming racist to anyone voting for them.

Thats a pretty big assumption, and Im curious what you are basing it on.

 

[Misqus]

OT
I find it hard to disagree, but, for arguments sake . I find a healthy discussion very refreshing. I do somewhat believe that todays moral norms are "company made". Suddenly we use hearts and cute emojes, ban foul language but still vote for Trump, shoot eachothers (in Sweden at least) and call out people for being non PC. The second biggest political party, SD Rightwinged Idiots, in Sweden would never have rised to power if there would have been an open moral/ethic debate in media w/o screaming racist to anyone voting for them. Thus, I enjoy the somewhat intellectual AOE2 community discussing. And oc I dont support any use of Pejoratives.
Sry for the OT

"Only thing worse than disagreeing, is agreeing"

I got the Feeling that people taking part in this discussion took me for some nutjob wanting to normalise use of slurs and offensive language in public life.

I just don't believe anything good comes out of legal censorship of anything. Such things should be organic. People should be able to say anything whitout fear of legal actions being took against them, as long as they are not inciting violence or go on hate campaigns. The reprecussions should come from normal people - by losing viewers, friends, shunning from social circles. But it shouldn't come from goverment in any Shape or form.

That being said twitch is private platform and if you use it you should play by it's rules - whatever they are.

Normalizing slurs, insults or offensive language is a no, outright banning words or taking legal actions against people who use said words is downright medieval.

People here say that "it's not about being offended those are just insults", but insults are only insulting when they.. Yeah hurt your feelings in one way or another.

 

[TheCapybara]

People here say that "it's not about being offended tgay are just insults", but insults are only insulting when they.. Yeah hurt your feelings in one way or another.

This is the attitude which I find really troublesome. It makes it feel like the subject of the insult is at fault for being upset at being insulted. It comes across as a victim-blaming attitude, rather than taking issue with the person who is abusing them. When people say 'just grow some balls' or 'stop being so soft' - as has been said multiple times in this thread - it's the same thing. It denies the responsibility of the offender to be less cruel.

Debates about whose responsibility it is to set the standards for language and behaviour (i.e. government or society/communities) are going to be a matter of political preference to some degree. Debates about whose to blame when somebody is upset about the use of harmful language really shouldn't be. A homophobic slur is a homophobic slur, and it's not the job of people upset by it to 'toughen up'.

 

[Misqus]

This is the attitude which I find really troublesome. It makes it feel like the subject of the insult is at fault for being upset at being insulted. It comes across as a victim-blaming attitude, rather than taking issue with the person who is abusing them. When people say 'just grow some balls' or 'stop being so soft' - as has been said multiple times in this thread - it's the same thing. It denies the responsibility of the offender to be less cruel.

Debates about whose responsibility it is to set the standards for language and behaviour (i.e. government or society/communities) are going to be a matter of political preference to some degree. Debates about whose to blame when somebody is upset about the use of harmful language really shouldn't be. A homophobic slur is a homophobic slur, and it's not the job of people upset by it to 'toughen up'.

I'm sorry if it looked like I was trying to shift the blame onto the victim - this was never my intention. You can feel threatned or insulted, there is nothing wrong with that. What I truly despise is creating outragre on behalf other people that more often than not just didn't take any offence or simply don't care.

On the matter of toughning up - I take it as a matter of personal perspective: If someone starts throwing insults at me during game or discussion, that means I've already won. They are so powerless and frustrated that they retereat to throwing sh*t at you. What is frankly sad and often very funny at the same time.

EDIT: someone reported my post that you quoted and now it's awaiting manual aproval. Do you think it was so controversial or in such a bad taste that such action was needed?

 

[SuperskinnyBLS]

he represents not only himself but the AoE2 community

You forgot to mention him represnting Norwegian goverment and all the brunets.

 

[RobChang]

You forgot to mention him represnting Norwegian goverment and all the brunets.

Na they dont care, sorry :D

 

Reading this thread seeing half of the answers is from people I chose to ignore ... and then reading answers of some intelligent people makes me feel really thankful that there are still people here giving contra to mindsets from the last century. Thank you!

 

[govs]

Thats a pretty big assumption, and Im curious what you are basing it on.

OT
Im basing it on a survey from SCB https://www.scb.se/en , people were angry for not being able to voice their opinion w/o being called out by media. In 2006 they got 2.93% votes, in 2018 they got 17.53%.

 

[govs]

I got the Feeling that people taking part in this discussion took me for some nutjob wanting to normalise use of slurs and offensive language in public life.

I just don't believe anything good comes out of legal censorship of anything. Such things should be organic. People should be able to say anything whitout fear of legal actions being took against them, as long as they are not inciting violence or go on hate campaigns. The reprecussions should come from normal people - by losing viewers, friends, shunning from social circles. But it shouldn't come from goverment in any Shape or form.

That being said twitch is private platform and if you use it you should play by it's rules - whatever they are.

Normalizing slurs, insults or offensive language is a no, outright banning words or taking legal actions against people who use said words is downright medieval.

People here say that "it's not about being offended those are just insults", but insults are only insulting when they.. Yeah hurt your feelings in one way or another.

Why nutjob? Different opinions are healthy. I agree with the notion that its only hurtfull if you let yourself being hurt. With that said I do not condone spreading hate! I was born last century so maybe my views are old, but why should I care what others think of me (Im gay, Im old ,Im foureyes etc.) Im well aware of my treats and shortcomings .

 

[RobChang]

I got the Feeling that people taking part in this discussion took me for some nutjob wanting to normalise use of slurs and offensive language in public life.

I just don't believe anything good comes out of legal censorship of anything. Such things should be organic. People should be able to say anything whitout fear of legal actions being took against them, as long as they are not inciting violence or go on hate campaigns. The reprecussions should come from normal people - by losing viewers, friends, shunning from social circles. But it shouldn't come from goverment in any Shape or form.

That being said twitch is private platform and if you use it you should play by it's rules - whatever they are.

Normalizing slurs, insults or offensive language is a no, outright banning words or taking legal actions against people who use said words is downright medieval.

People here say that "it's not about being offended those are just insults", but insults are only insulting when they.. Yeah hurt your feelings in one way or another.

So you say, you want that insults are removed from legal courts ?

 

[SilverHawk]

Jeepers, we're seeing a lot of this bizarre attitude.

If you had a friend who someone insulted using racist or homophobic language, would you be upset with the person who said the insult? If the answer is 'yes', then why on earth should we not apply this standard to people whom we don't call friend? Does not being friends with someone mean it's acceptable to stand by and let them be the subject of abuse?

If the answer is 'no', then I think we have a far more concerning problem entirely about how individualistic people are if they don't see the abuse of their fellow humans as something to get upset about.

As for 'thick skin': objecting to harmful and abusive behaviours does not make a person 'think skinned'. It's a completely natural reaction.

Yes I'd be pissed off but for me it has absolutely nothing to do with the language. It's the belief that the other person clearly holds that would piss me off. I'm strongly in the camp that one can say whatever they want, but one should never EVER hold any belief that puts others somehow below themselves.

For myself, if someone uses F2.0 and I question that person's beliefs, it's the beliefs I address. I wouldn't want to associate with or support anyone that holds such beliefs so I don't agree with folks saying it doesn't matter what a content creator's political leanings are to follow them. It does. But I don't think anyone believes MBL is homophobic because of his word choice, nor do I think the use of the word makes him or anyone homophobic despite their beliefs.

Additionally, I do not believe tearing actual homophobes, racists, sexists, etc. a new one actually solves the problem. Of course, it's much easier to fly off the handle at perceived injustice, but it's much more effective to reach that person with an honest conversation. And not using passive aggressive BS like "I can't understand why this is so difficult for you...". Those kinds phrases only piss people off and raise their defenses, which is the very thing you want to avoid if you're trying to get an honest point across.

 

[Misqus]

So you say, you want that insults are removed from legal courts ?

I say I want that insults and slurs and whatever can be used freely by anyone without fear of being prosecuted on it by default - as guy above me said it's the intention that matters not the word.
I believe people have right to hate eachother as long as it doesn't instigate violence, stalking, actively trying to ruin someones life. Banning things does't not make them disappear, just supresses them and then they erupt twice as strongly.

Nowadays the moment you voice any opinion you are immidietly labelled as either sjw or a racist/homophobic/bigoted scum. The radicalisation in todays world is insane. You are either with us or against us, theres no "I don't feel strongly about your cause, I just want to share my view about it" option.
And it's applied by everyone: left, right, LGBT activists, radical anti gay activists, etc.

This is insane. I want to be able to call my friend a fuc*ing faggot inside my office, in a private conversation and have a laugh about it with him, without fear that some delivery guy drinking coffee on the hallway will report me to the HR cause "he felt that my friend could feel insulted". There was such case in my former workplace and they've denied the poor bastard promotion based on that incident. XD

Just chill out, if people ask you for intervention by any means do it, if not just mind your own business.

 

[marco47]

This is insane. I want to be able to call my friend a fuc*ing faggot inside my office, in a private conversation and have a laugh about it with him, without fear that some delivery guy drinking coffee on the hallway will report me to the HR cause "he felt that my friend could feel insulted".

That would be obviously inappropiate behavior in any workplace, are you a child? But I'm glad you posted this because your many posts in this thread weren't obviously ever about whether you support "freedom of speech" or not, this was about you being afraid of ever facing consequences for using sexist, racist or homophobic language.