Warlords | Discussion

[Potkeny]

on the flipside the number of games that have been characterized by a single player making a weird mistake that basically decides the outcome from the get-go (be that with very weird strategy choices - I'm looking at you MbL vs Nicov - or weird civ picks - berbers on arena?)

Doesn't that only shows that outside of arabia, players are still figuring out the map/civ-balance?

I mean, it shouldn't happen on traditional maps like arena, but we all know how popular that is for certain pro-players, so not surprising they don't know which civs/strats are easy to counter there, and even more so for other maps.

 

[warownia]

Is it just me or has this tournament been... weird so far?

On the one hand there have been a lot of crazy good games(TaToH vs Yo today on Oasis was amazing) but then on the flipside the number of games that have been characterized by a single player making a weird mistake that basically decides the outcome from the get-go (be that with very weird strategy choices - I'm looking at you MbL vs Nicov - or weird civ picks - berbers on arena?) with very little back-and-forth has been veery high, with seemingly little inbetween

I have been enjoying the tournament a lot so far - much more than I did RBWL - but it's bit weird that you can't really know what quality of games to expect going into each set

Agree with potkeny. Have u noticed any such games on open map Group maps?

 

[wahaha]

Just want to highlight Hera, best line of 2022. "MEMB, ask Mr. YO for food" when Yo is floating 16k food 11

 

[Degaussed]

The fact that Yo was able to accumulate 20k in food, while creating food only units, in a TOURNAMENT game, while having 200 military population in his queue and always being pop capped, speaks to how stupid Poles are. And it speaks to how stupid Gurjaras (specifically Ghulams disc jockeys) are that they were able to keep up with them for so long.

 

[wahaha]

The fact that Yo was able to accumulate 20k in food, while creating food only units, in a TOURNAMENT game, while having 200 military population in his queue and always being pop capped, speaks to how stupid Poles are. And it speaks to how stupid Gurjaras (specifically Ghulams) are that they were able to keep up with them for so long.

Only way to defeat Poles is by using Holes, GG MBL.

 

[Lokalo]

Doesn't that only shows that outside of arabia, players are still figuring out the map/civ-balance?

I mean, it shouldn't happen on traditional maps like arena, but we all know how popular that is for certain pro-players, so not surprising they don't know which civs/strats are easy to counter there, and even more so for other maps.

Well yes, I agree with it. Like Jordan taking Magyars in Oasis, not sure if that was improvised, as I would imagine he trained it and managed to get way more dmg, like either catch opponent bit off guard either catch opponent going walled fc and Villese was something in between, full walled and did some army. Just timing on vills getting there was bit off which makes it bit weird if it was practiced.

Also some people might like that there is bigger "diversity" of strats and civs, which I would like too and don't have much against DLCs, but even if many people say game is in very good balance state at same time I feel like there is a lot of broken stuff and some games definetily look weird because of it.

And what I mean is that quite a few civs/units are broken in certain situations and in others they even feel weak. For example haufnice, that unit is just straight unfun to play against and in closed maps is even broken as hell. Also I still don't get why bohemians have all 4 mining upgrades for free, that makes no sense and its insane bonus, it also makes very hard to compete in imp time.

For example Cumans. Tatoh did really nice trush with 2 tc behind against Hera, but overall I have seen like 20 cumans games in last few months in tournaments/ladder and I have feeling like almost never games go steady, either cumans get huge eco lead and snowball either gets slapped early castle age, there is almost never anything in between.

Poles also seem quite broken, their bonuses just stack very nicely and maybe it's a little slower civ, but if you manage your farms going it's very difficult to stop.

The fact that Yo was able to accumulate 20k in food, while creating food only units, in a TOURNAMENT game, while having 200 military population in his queue and always being pop capped, speaks to how stupid Poles are. And it speaks to how stupid Gurjaras (specifically Ghulams) are that they were able to keep up with them for so long.

Yeah, those frisbees are insane, if you position your army wrong, even 30-40 winged hussars were melting in few seconds, It's like having mobile scorpions which can stack in small space. But not even sure what I would nerf for them, nefing attack might make unit quite weak, nerfing disc flying range might help, but probably wont do much. Maybe movement speed, as if they are like scorpions, so I guess should have similar weakness which mainly is speed. Or at least that they couldn't stack as xbow, but would be more like knights, so would make their positioning much harder.

And ofc there also is hindustanis, which have an amazing eco and have an amazing counter to everything.

Is just really hard to judge sometimes, it's like with flemish revolution, itself often is not that great, but even possibility of it alone makes you cautious to do halbs or cavalry and with having 50% cheaper paladin which you can get instantly in imp because of cavalier already done in castle age you hardly can afford defending without halbs, unless you have heavy camels. Also on top of that they have stronger hc. Is bit weird to me how few civs have many bonuses stacked for one thing.

Sorry that it became kind of a rant, but I really believe that at least some of this stuff should have been patched long time ago, taking half of year to nerf some civs is just way too long.


On Topic.
I have tried myself 9vill start with a friend(as per warlords) and also tried DWL start, at first before tournament thought it will be exact same thing, but in warlords there are just 2 extra houses and + 6 vills and -30wood I think. While DWL has same except tried balancing starting resources more and has extra explored area at the start. Honestly not sure if it was easier or Memb didn't want to use other tournament's settings, but I find DWL settings better especially of more explored area at the start. Starting resources can be debatable and you can adapt, but it feels weird to jump into game already with 9 vills and then start looking for woodline, while in DWL you already can see where your woodlines(at least some trees of every woodline) are so start feels much smoother and I think if we thinking it to be the future that has definetily be there. Overall really like 9vill start and for those who says is harder to play it, it felt pretty much same. In current start you imidiately need to build 2 houses and with 9 vills you imidiately need to put 6 on sheep and 3 on wood/send them to build lumbercamp, so seems pretty much same thing what concerns multitasking/separate actions to make.

And tournament overall is great. Who could have guessed Tatoh be not in top8 after his RBW victory?

 

[Michaerbse]

On Topic.
I have tried myself 9vill start with a friend(as per warlords) and also tried DWL start, at first before tournament thought it will be exact same thing, but in warlords there are just 2 extra houses and + 6 vills and -30wood I think. While DWL has same except tried balancing starting resources more and has extra explored area at the start. Honestly not sure if it was easier or Memb didn't want to use other tournament's settings, but I find DWL settings better especially of more explored area at the start. Starting resources can be debatable and you can adapt, but it feels weird to jump into game already with 9 vills and then start looking for woodline, while in DWL you already can see where your woodlines(at least some trees of every woodline) are so start feels much smoother and I think if we thinking it to be the future that has definetily be there. Overall really like 9vill start and for those who says is harder to play it, it felt pretty much same. In current start you imidiately need to build 2 houses and with 9 vills you imidiately need to put 6 on sheep and 3 on wood/send them to build lumbercamp, so seems pretty much same thing what concerns multitasking/separate actions to make.

Fully agree with that. I think the 9 vill start should try to imitate the situation at 2:30 min in a "normal" RM game as much as possible, hence having some wider area of the base already explored makes sense.

I just checked: for The Grand Melee it looks like it will be done that way.

 

[LowEloNobody]

The fact that Yo was able to accumulate 20k in food, while creating food only units, in a TOURNAMENT game, while having 200 military population in his queue and always being pop capped, speaks to how stupid Poles are. And it speaks to how stupid Gurjaras (specifically Ghulams) are that they were able to keep up with them for so long.

Ah yes, the infamous Gurjaras Ghulams. OP indeed

 

[Springoftheking]

This tournament has extraordinary amount of maps and every map has 9 villager start. Maybe players have more trouble to play perfect meta than example KotD, where every game is the same Arabia 3 vils. Warlords-format forces players adapt more and it is welcome change.

 

[Funito]

The fact that Yo was able to accumulate 20k in food, while creating food only units, in a TOURNAMENT game, while having 200 military population in his queue and always being pop capped, speaks to how stupid Poles are. And it speaks to how stupid Gurjaras (specifically Ghulams) are that they were able to keep up with them for so long.

At this point we need a hot fix that at least removes Crop Rotation from them

 

[princecoconut]

I really like that the civ diversity has been quite big.
There's actually not that many civs with zero games.
Celts? Goths? Slavs? Incas? Sicilians? Huns?

36 out 42 civs had at least one game I believe. Shoutout to Burmese who had been neglected for a loooong time.

With the sets going to Bo7 now, we might even see some of these non picked civs enter the arena as well. Especially Huns should come up this week.

 

[Michaerbse]

Random fact: This is the 1st 1v1 S tier event since HOLY Cup in October 2021 where more than 2 of the so-called "Big 4" have reached the semifinal.

The only S tier events where all 4 of them reached the semis remain Red Bull Wololo 1 and Red Bull Wololo 2 in April/May and August 2020, respectively.

 

[Potkeny]

Random fact: This is the 1st 1v1 S tier event since HOLY Cup in October 2021 where more than 2 of the so-called "Big 4" have reached the semifinal.

Clearly the seeding was bad and they met before the semis Kappa

 

[vince]

Random fact: This is the 1st 1v1 S tier event since HOLY Cup in October 2021 where more than 2 of the so-called "Big 4" have reached the semifinal.

The only S tier events where all 4 of them reached the semis remain Red Bull Wololo 1 and Red Bull Wololo 2 in April/May and August 2020, respectively.

so?

 

[princecoconut]

Unsure how the semi's and final can surpass this set between Viper & Yo.
One of the best sets of the year that I've seen.

What an awesome tournament!

 

[Chezdon]

Feel bad for Vinch. 4-1 but it was close. Hera just playing like a machine - very well played.

 

[Lokalo]

Feel bad for Vinch. 4-1 but it was close. Hera just playing like a machine - very well played.

Yeah, Vinch at one point felt liek will lose even migration... Hera somehow keeps coming back from the hell, apart land madness felt like Vinch gets a lead and then hera just comes back, that four lake games felt like definetily is for Vinch after he killed vills with steppe lancers. 4:1 definetily doesn't tell all story of that set

 

[megalopolis]

Love what this tournament has brought us on so many levels.

• Seeing Migration, Scandinavia, and such maps, with modern balance, is super fun and nostalgic as someone who got into watching competitive games ~10 years ago and missed these maps.
• Seeing high-level Black Forest games is extremely relatable to myself and (probably) many viewers who play more casually.
• The 9 vill start is a superb balance from a viewer perspective. It makes the game faster while keeping the Dark Age relevant and giving the players time to be creative and strategize on the fly.

So many of the games are on a knife's edge, with tons of key strategic decisions really mattering even after the player has committed on a macro level. That's something I can appreciate and learn from.

Thank you so much Memb and team!

 

[akku]

Yeah, Vinch at one point felt liek will lose even migration... Hera somehow keeps coming back from the hell, apart land madness felt like Vinch gets a lead and then hera just comes back, that four lake games felt like definetily is for Vinch after he killed vills with steppe lancers. 4:1 definetily doesn't tell all story of that set

Yep, the first three games really could've gone either way. The series was closer than what the "4-1" suggests

 

[Jarvin]

I've been pretty lukewarm about several of the most recent large tournaments, but the yesterday's set reminded me why I love this game so much

Thank you for making it happen, and I hope we get a great final today <3

 

[Chanson]

That was the best tournament in recent memory. Excited for Warlords 2.

 

[Gainbro92]

Awesome tournament. hope the 9 villager start is here to stay.

 

[princecoconut]

Unsure how the semi's and final can surpass this set between Viper & Yo.
One of the best sets of the year that I've seen.

What an awesome tournament!

Sadly the semis and especially the final weren't close to the level of tension of that set.
Was still a great tournament. The best of the year in 1v1's in my humble opinion.

 

[Liamsmalley7]

fun tournament was cheering for Hera but Viper really put up one of his best ever performances there

 

[COLORPURPLE]

I think an All Arabia tournament (KOTD) is likely to be boring for a lot of people now. The map variety is just too much fun IMO