BacT / F1Re - Situation *UPDATE*

Netherlandsnimanoe

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Jan 15, 2014
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#51
@King_Marv it's the same in other esports, if one team or player can't make it, they get replaced, no matter if they qualified or were invited. I don't think that qualifying for the event means that the tournament organizer is now owed you money OR has to make sure you get to the event. It means they have to do whatever they can to make sure you make it, but if it's out of their control they don't owe you anything. It seems like Nili did whatever he could and this was just out of his control.

And it doesn't make any sense for BacT to play from home, when one of the biggest drawing points of this tournament is about the interaction between the players on camera and the games being without lag. I get that it really sucks for BacT and I really feel for him, but having him play from home would ruin a lot of the viewer experience.
 

UnknownLanchi

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Dec 19, 2016
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#52
Not only one person defining "the whole point" "the whole idea" "the whole meaning" of NAC2, I have only one question to ask you: Are you Nili?
Unless Nili define this by himself, it would never be convinced to others. How dare you delete/ignore all other meaning of this tournament and say yes some point is the only point?

Play in Nili's apartment is part of the point, it's true, but even 7 players there give enough responsibility to its title
another very meaningful thing is this is the biggest 1v1 tournament after 2015 WSVG (actually merely the second, after TECP), if we don't count those HD tournaments
which this community lack it for more than 3 years

Some posts above think "let qualified player play from home is better"
some think "let not qualified player fly there instead is better"
both concept is reasonable, support either is fine
but we don't need to define some not exist thing to say another side make 0 sense or some word like that
 
Aug 1, 2018
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#53
I would suggest to save up the money to buy BacT's air tix, and garuntee him a spot in NAC3. I think its a huge thing for BacT to travel to EU, and the experience cant be compensated.

The 8th player just invite someone in EU, which would cost much less money. Or even Nili you be it 11
(sorry to F1Re though)
 

NetherlandsDirkjan

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#54
I kinda agree with Marv that letting play BacT over the internet would be an option, not as perfect solution but mainly because its such a pity BacT can't play even though he qualified.
I'm sure it's gonna be great tournament non the less
 
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NetherlandsElvaenor

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Sep 2, 2015
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#55
Not only one person defining "the whole point" "the whole idea" "the whole meaning" of NAC2, I have only one question to ask you: Are you Nili?
Unless Nili define this by himself, it would never be convinced to others. How dare you delete/ignore all other meaning of this tournament and say yes some point is the only point?
Well to be honest, Nili said he considered flying in F1re instead of Bact if Bact can't make it. By saying this he quite clearly expresses his opinion on the matter, that in fact everyone should be present in his appartment!
I also like to think the idea is to have everyone in one appartment. To have one person away, in Vietnam nonetheless, would not only have the no lag games but would also miss the 'everyone in one appartment' vibe.
 

BelgiumBeinchisme

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Apr 12, 2018
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#56
i didnt say that he dont want him , im sure he wants him to be there. The compensation is for the missed opportunity not for expenses. I already told 2 options i would do and none was smuggle him to europe.

Player eight is the player that Nili choses.
This is just wrong when hes doing open qualifiers. He chosed before and then made qualifers for all.

He doesn't have any responsibility
This is also wrong. He has since a lot of people donated money for the event.

@DFH_Risque

im just discussing. Dont interpret as drama. When someone decides to show his decisions in an open forum then he should not be scared about opinions. You can agree or disagree with me i am fine with that. Im not biased in any way.
i hope NAC will be great and a succes for Nili, i wanted to join meet and greet but i cannot cause my grandmum get 80 that weekend.
I cannot think of any "real life" situation where the tournament organizer would have to compensate a player / team that cannot make it to the tournament because of external reasons.

If a qualified olympic athlete cannot go the Olympic Games because of visa problem, IOC will not compensate anything. If a tennis player gets arrested / gets injured after being qualified for the Australian Open, again the tournament will not compensate a thing.

I think it's in a lot of cases even the other way around: the player / team will have to compensate the tournament for the loss of entertainment value for the organization. Not saying though that it's valid in this case off course, I think the solution with F1re is a very elegant one...
 

UnknownCarlini8

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Oct 22, 2016
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#57
It sucks, but it’s life. Nili has gone above and beyond to try and get BacT there, more than is posted in this thread.

Instead of some nonsense online shopping analogy how about the esports one as nimanoe has mentioned, you know, the one that makes sense. This happens in tournaments with a much much much bigger prize pool and they get nothing at all. Potential to win millions and they get less than BacT has been compensated by nili. In these situations it is also on the player to get it sorted, not the host of the tournament. Same in normal sports too. If you qualify for a tournament and you need a visa, you have to sort it. Again you could be competing for millions, but if you don’t get that visa it isn’t on the tournament host. To bring in a nonsense analogy as I guess they count here?:

How many times have you watched Wimbledon and one of the opponents have been playing from home on their Wii?
 
Jan 24, 2019
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#58
Can we all agree that F1Re as a replacement is not just some random choice as many make it sound like?

Let's just say that the whole purpose of NAC2 is to have people playing in Nilis apartment. Now if one of the qualifiers can't make it and the purpose of being there can't be fulfilled, then the obvious choose would be one the 2nd places of the qualifiers, which in both cases is F1Re, which makes him the best replacement choice out of all the players in the world, who deserves to go to NAC.
 
Nov 16, 2015
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#59
It sucks, but it’s life. Nili has gone above and beyond to try and get BacT there, more than is posted in this thread.

Instead of some nonsense online shopping analogy how about the esports one as nimanoe has mentioned, you know, the one that makes sense. This happens in tournaments with a much much much bigger prize pool and they get nothing at all. Potential to win millions and they get less than BacT has been compensated by nili. In these situations it is also on the player to get it sorted, not the host of the tournament. Same in normal sports too. If you qualify for a tournament and you need a visa, you have to sort it. Again you could be competing for millions, but if you don’t get that visa it isn’t on the tournament host. To bring in a nonsense analogy as I guess they count here?:

How many times have you watched Wimbledon and one of the opponents have been playing from home on their Wii?
Maybe that way they could beat Nadal :O
 
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UnknownLanchi

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Dec 19, 2016
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#60
Well to be honest, Nili said he considered flying in F1re instead of Bact if Bact can't make it. By saying this he quite clearly expresses his opinion on the matter, that in fact everyone should be present in his appartment!
"everyone should be present in his apartment" doesn't mean "whole point/whole idea/whole meaning/whole purpose" is it
like my #52
it only means Nili choose his preference between the two options
this have nothing to do with tournament whole idea/purpose
 

GermanyKing_Marv

Longswordman
May 27, 2016
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#61
@King_Marv

And it doesn't make any sense for BacT to play from home, when one of the biggest drawing points of this tournament is about the interaction between the players on camera and the games being without lag. I get that it really sucks for BacT and I really feel for him, but having him play from home would ruin a lot of the viewer experience.
i agree with you that one of the biggest drawing points of this event is that they are all in the same appartment. But as you said one of. How is your viewers experience affected in any negative way? Bact can play with face cam so you can see his expressions while playing. And the lag issue is gone. All asian experts i have played with or played 1v1 (Bact, Saymyname, Fengxin, Tim, ACCM, Chip, Vivi, Lyx) had no lag in all the games.


Can we all agree that F1Re as a replacement is not just some random choice as many make it sound like?

Let's just say that the whole purpose of NAC2 is to have people playing in Nilis apartment. Now if one of the qualifiers can't make it and the purpose of being there can't be fulfilled, then the obvious choose would be one the 2nd places of the qualifiers, which in both cases is F1Re, which makes him the best replacement choice out of all the players in the world, who deserves to go to NAC.
I dont question F1re as choice. If he replace Bact he can chose everyone, could even chose you i dont care.I just question the decision to replace but half of people dont read what i wrote, they read what they want to read.


If a qualified olympic athlete cannot go the Olympic Games because of visa problem, IOC will not compensate anything. If a tennis player gets arrested / gets injured after being qualified for the Australian Open, again the tournament will not compensate a thing.
i also said then when the player is responsible for not comming he dont get any compensation why would he. Read pls what i write if you quote and attack my posts. And for your first sentence in this quote. Yes he wont get anything from IOC but he will get something from who made the mistake (except it was his mistake).
 
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Nov 20, 2017
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#62
In the light of the events, there's no perfect solution obviously. But if BacT can't make it due to whatsoever reasons, the most suitable alternate is indeed what Nili is doing (in my opinion).

However, to be fair to BacT, this compensation sucks in itself. Of-course, Nili doesn't owe any showmatches to anyone and he doesn't really need to make it up to BacT, but a more welcoming course of action would be to guarantee BacT a spot in NAC3 subjected to the condition there's going to be a NAC3 at some point in future.

Again, Nili doesn't need to, but I think it's more considerate to do so.
 

Unknownasdfasdfasdf1

Active Member
Jul 13, 2017
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#63
In the light of the events, there's no perfect solution obviously. But if BacT can't make it due to whatsoever reasons, the most suitable alternate is indeed what Nili is doing (in my opinion).

However, to be fair to BacT, this compensation sucks in itself. Of-course, Nili doesn't owe any showmatches to anyone and he doesn't really need to make it up to BacT, but a more welcoming course of action would be to guarantee BacT a spot in NAC3 subjected to the condition there's going to be a NAC3 at some point in future.

Again, Nili doesn't need to, but I think it's more considerate to do so.
I agree, but I can see why Nili can't make such deal (yet). Personally, if I were in Nilis position, and i would be unsure of hosting NAC3, i wouldn't want to be in a position to get somebody elses hope up and have to disappoint him. Even if it's not a hard promise, it kinda puts pressure on Nili to host another NAC.
 
Nov 20, 2017
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#64
I agree, but I can see why Nili can't make such deal (yet). Personally, if I were in Nilis position, and i would be unsure of hosting NAC3, i wouldn't want to be in a position to get somebody elses hope up and have to disappoint him. Even if it's not a hard promise, it kinda puts pressure on Nili to host another NAC.
Yes. Fair enough. Only Nili can judge that best, depending on his future goals.

Although an informal promise might not be an added pressure for Nili or high expectations for BacT, if it's made clear that it's subjected to the condition that there's another NAC. But again, only Nili and BacT can judge that best I guess.
 

Netherlandsnimanoe

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Jan 15, 2014
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#65
i agree with you that one of the biggest drawing points of this event is that they are all in the same appartment. But as you said one of. How is your viewers experience affected in any negative way? Bact can play with face cam so you can see his expressions while playing. And the lag issue is gone. All asian experts i have played with or played 1v1 (Bact, Saymyname, Fengxin, Tim, ACCM, Chip, Vivi, Lyx) had no lag in all the games.
Playing on LAN is still different in terms of lag than playing vs someone on the other side of the world, even though with UP 1.5 it has improved a lot.
And in terms of viewer experience, it's not just about having a face cam during the game, it's also about the interactions during breaks, being able to talk to each other while playing and being able to trash talk during the draft etc.
And for the viewers who are attending live it would also suck that BacT won't be there.
 
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GermanyKing_Marv

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May 27, 2016
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#66
Playing on LAN is still different in terms of lag than playing vs someone on the other side of the world, even though with UP 1.5 it has improved a lot.
And in terms of viewer experience, it's not just about having a face cam during the game, it's also about the interactions during breaks, being able to talk to each other while playing and being able to trash talk during the draft etc.
And for the viewers who are attending live it would also suck that BacT won't be there.
The lag argument for me is well a weird one cause every bigger tournament in the past has been played online and it was most of the time fine. You might not have lag in lan but maybe other problems like setting up hotkeys for the player, other mouse or keyboard than normal or even electricity issues when you have multiple pc running in same appartment with cameras tv etc. I remember in nac1 they even had to buy new PCs during the tournament for some reason.

So I think this has really no impact you just exchange one small problem vs another risk.

And i still don’t get it how are you affected If there are 10 people in nilis appartment having fun or 11 or 9. They are affected but not a viewer.

The last point you are right for people who go to Hamburg and wanted to meet Bact is shit but don’t you think is even more shit when he’s not even in the tournament?
 
Jan 31, 2010
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#67
It would be an advantage to play from home as it is your comfortable surroundings. Also his timezone would be quite awkward to take part in a LAN event in Europe.

No players there would want this either, having a proper LAN and then one guy playing with 400 ping from another side of the world. Really would ruin a bit of the experience.

Nili is making the best out of an awkward situation, and I'm sure BacT understands and is fine with it as well if he can't get his visa.
 

Netherlandsnimanoe

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#68
The lag argument for me is well a weird one cause every bigger tournament in the past has been played online and it was most of the time fine.
There is a good reason for that, we just didn't have the money and infrastructure to let people play on LAN. Playing on LAN is much better and there's a reason that all big esports are pretty much entirely played on LAN.
You might not have lag in lan but maybe other problems like setting up hotkeys for the player, other mouse or keyboard than normal or even electricity issues when you have multiple pc running in same appartment with cameras tv etc. I remember in nac1 they even had to buy new PCs during the tournament for some reason.
Thanks for bringing this up, but I'm not sure why you brought it up. I think it actually hurts your argument. Let's say you're right and there are issues with the PC's or with the hotkeys. How fair would it then be for BacT to play from home and not be affected by all these things? If all the players play on LAN at least they will be affected with the same problems.
The last point you are right for people who go to Hamburg and wanted to meet Bact is shit but don’t you think is even more shit when he’s not even in the tournament?
Of course it sucks that Bact won't be able to attend, but I think at least for the meetup people would rather see F1Re instead of not being able to meet BacT
 

United KingdomGhostOfYoda

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#69
It would suck for BacT, but at the end of the day, the prize of the qualifiers was an invitation to NAC2. If BacT can’t take up that invitation, then there’s a space open and Nili can fill that as he chooses to ensure he can deliver the quality tournament he has planned. Let’s not forget, there are other excellent players who could not make it, even directly turning down an invitation (Mr Yo) - and these were not extended the opportunity to play remotely, because it makes absolutely no sense.

Let’s not put the cart before the horse- the qualifiers were for the sake of having the best possible LAN tournament, as opposed to being a prize competition in their own right. It’s not a question of fairness, or just deserve.

In any case, it’s not over yet- let’s hope the alternative visa process works out!
 
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Unknownwormy

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Mar 24, 2018
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#70
Appreciate the communication. Seems like everything is being handled appropriately to me. It's very unfortunate for BacT and I hope he can make it.. but I always felt bad for F1Re having made it to the finals in both qualifiers and walking away with nothing, so I'm happy he's getting some recognition. The showmatches are a good idea too - will the last 2 be played by the person who doesn't make it to NAC2?
 
Sep 30, 2018
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#72
The shipment will probably be insured and based on that you will receive money back. If you chose uninsured shipping at check-out you're not going to get any money back unless the clothes company wants to show good customer service, but they won't have any obligation to do so




Player eight is the player that Nili choses. He can invite whomever he wants to. He doesn't have any responsibility (maybe a moral or social one, but given that majority agrees with his actions that doesn't seem to be the case) because I doubt there were any valid contracts signed. He tried to get BacT to come to Hamburg, but visa issues are not his responsibility - sometimes these things take time and sometimes then they don't work out. It is really unfortunate for BacT but if the visa won't be issued in time then inviting F1re is by far the best solution.

I am sure he want's BacT there but if he does not have a visa then what is Nili supposed to do? Smuggle him in the country? And for what should BacT be compensated? I highly doubt he had any cost related to NAC2 so far, so there is no base for compensation.
It might not have been money but he surely spent his time training and preparing to perform well and get the ticket which in fact, he did and coming back from the losing bracket playing amazingly well and literally crushing fire. I assume that's lots of hours that you invest and can't take back even for a few dollars if (in the best of cases) he wins the showmatches. It's the answer to what BacT should get compensated for.
 
Dec 1, 2018
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#75
Should've applied for tourist visa in December itself. Guess it would be easier to get that. Anyway, the tournament is only for few days. I remember shegen tourist visa was given in a couple of weeks. You just had to show the hotel bookings and return ticket.
 

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