People exaggerating when they say something can point to a more nuanced version of what they say being true.If he doesn`t agree with that specific point, how can he be referring to it as "evidence"?
People exaggerating when they say something can point to a more nuanced version of what they say being true.If he doesn`t agree with that specific point, how can he be referring to it as "evidence"?
All healthbars visible is fine imo. It doesn't add a super obvious advantage like range indicators. The DE "remastered" colored health bars are terrible and make it look like a mobile game so those should be criticized however.
Auto reseed is not really an advantage I think because it can mess up the player if they use it wrong early but it does feel like why need to add it and change the feeling of the game from the original more for no real overall gain. Not really hard to Ctrl+W or whatever "select a mill" hotkey there is and Shift+F a few times occasionally in Imperial Age.
Do you remember who said this? I'm curious as I don't remember it and 3 years ago would've been around the WK time, when balance was changing quite a bit. I could imagine someone saying it at the end of the Voobly era, when every map had a figured out best civ and we'd 99% of the time see a mirror match-up, but 3 years ago we started experimenting with drafts and changing the maps, which would switch up the meta quite a bit.Players were already saying 3 years ago that its purely about execution because strategy is figured out.
What do you mean by healthbar micro?All healthbars visibe creates a huge advantage since it removes healthbar micro, this impacts many things. If everyone starts using it then there is no advantage, only the game became uglier. Luckily it's so ugly that most refuse. But these things should be judged from the perspective of: "does it benefit the gameplay?". No, it just makes things predictable and less skillful.
Yes this is exactly what I meant. Agree with you completely here.The thing with auto reseed is I found manual reseeding in the mill balanced. It's good to keep things close to 1 input = 1 output and avoid "set and forget".
It means you hover over the units from the opponents in fights (or when running around enemy tc with scouts etc.) to see what units are weak so you know which one to target to take more efficient fights or snipe weak villagers.What do you mean by healthbar micro?
DE devs have lower standards? 11, so what would you have done if you were the game developer? Everybody was using the range mod after all, even pros...the range mod in particular is rather disappointing for the gameplay and it's hard to understand why they would include it. As Viper said it just makes things predictable. Because you can doesn't mean you should. The DE devs included it because they have lower standards and ultimately for them it remains a great marketingpoint.
So DE makes it EASIER to come up with a good strategy (I 100% agree) but somehow that DECREASES diversity?
I dont have a source for it but I guess you explained it quite well.Do you remember who said this? I'm curious as I don't remember it and 3 years ago would've been around the WK time, when balance was changing quite a bit. I could imagine someone saying it at the end of the Voobly era, when every map had a figured out best civ and we'd 99% of the time see a mirror match-up, but 3 years ago we started experimenting with drafts and changing the maps, which would switch up the meta quite a bit.
DE devs have lower standards? 11, so what would you have done if you were the game developer? Everybody was using the range mod after all, even pros...
If you don't use it you are in a disadvantage, and this was created by us, the players.
Boxselecting your own units to see the weak ones. All healthbars visible makes it easy to spot eg: weak villagers, especially when under pressure this is a big help.What do you mean by healthbar micro?
Making spamming army a simple process allows people to focus more on strategy which is what this game is all about at the end of the day. That's a good thing in my opinion.
If you make spamming army a very complex process this will invariably favor faster players over players who probably had better strategic decisions but weren't able to spam as much army, because they are slower.
Obviously there's a very fine line between these things, but in my opinion auto reseed does not cross that line.
To me it is really satisfying, when you manage to crawl yourself back into the game with perfect mechanics after you made a micro mistake for example.
You can moderate your game, players and mods or other player generated content. Just like Voobly used to do, everything that DE currently lacks and instead you have badly implemented chat filter.DE devs have lower standards? 11, so what would you have done if you were the game developer? Everybody was using the range mod after all, even pros...
If you don't use it you are in a disadvantage, and this was created by us, the players.
I think SC2 has way more focus on mechanical skill because you can focus much more on fewer things, like micro and production.
And thats exactly the same direction that aoe 2 DE is taking with the QOL features.
I would find it sad if the Voobly interface changed. Technically you can change the art behind the lobbies/game rooms, however the actually interface is imo so much cleaner and practical than DE. Popped in there a few days ago just to see how it was faring. It was nice entering a game room, playing a game and being able to chat with the players and spectators after. If only DE had implemented this from the beta 2 years ago after they were spammed with constant requests...And it should look and function totally modern, unlike current Voobly interface who looks stuck in the early noughts — their interface didn't change since 2007
if you force more apm for skill actions like micro/macro/spam ect you give less time for decision making which creates both skill of fast fingers and practice + fast thinking. We already got Chess for people who want only strategy.Making spamming army a simple process allows people to focus more on strategy which is what this game is all about at the end of the day. That's a good thing in my opinion.
If you make spamming army a very complex process this will invariably favor faster players over players who probably had better strategic decisions but weren't able to spam as much army, because they are slower.
Obviously there's a very fine line between these things, but in my opinion auto reseed does not cross that line.
if you force more apm for skill actions like micro/macro/spam ect you give less time for decision making which creates both skill of fast fingers and practice + fast thinking. We already got Chess for people who want only strategy.
That's totally fair.
But then I wonder if something like Starcraft is maybe a better game for you?
That's a game that obviously puts a much greater focus on mechanical skill compared to AoE2.
Different RTS games give different levels of importance to all the different aspects of a typical RTS game. That doesn't make the games better or worse per se, it just makes them unique.
What makes AoE2 unique is obviously the heavy focus on the economical/macro side of it and the random map generation. Both these things tend to be more closely associated (but not entirely) with strategical decisions and adaptation and less with mechanical execution. Though in my opinion, mechanical skill still plays a major role in it too.
So if someone prefers to play AoE2 over SC2, I would say that's because they actually do enjoy the fact that in AoE2 you can beat someone who's faster and more precise than you by having a better strategy and being able to adapt better to the random map generation.
But again, none of this is black and white. And no, a 15+ will not suddenly be able to beat Viper just because we have auto reseed and multiqueue! The game is still a fair bit more complex than that.
I could have sworn this was normally the case but I guess I have not played AoE2 or DE much recently. I don't think box selecting your whole screen is particularly difficult but I can envision in play the difference it makes overall and agree it is enough to make a difference.Boxselecting your own units to see the weak ones. All healthbars visible makes it easy to spot eg: weak villagers, especially when under pressure this is a big help.
Any games in particular to keep eyes on?it's partly why the genre didn't really last. maybe 1v1 will come back with stuff that other devs are doing (not microsft / world's edge. there are some actual RTS players with some games in the works), but i think it's basically dead for teamgames
No competitive SC2 is very tedious. Competitive AoE2 however is also very tedious. There is less overall emphasis on micro than SC2 but as MaSmOrRa says the demands for micro are still extremely high (this is obvious based on how frequently professional casters draw attention to player micro) and there are also many game loops where the player is repeatedly asked to do very uninteresting things.Or the focus would instead shift more towards spellcasting and micro (sc2 has way more of that, but also more QoL features). Which I find a bit tedious, but I am probably in the minority there
all these APM-based RTS games struggle because a 95th percentile player cannot even have a fair game with a 96th percentile player. the stress this puts on the matchmaking system is enormous
Tbh, I wonder how true this is the more I get into chess. At least at higher levels. There’s more to chess than one would think imo.We already got Chess for people who want only strategy.
I swear when I wrote that I knew you would say something along those lines hahaahah <3 tbh im sure there is much fast thinking and mechanics of movement in 1min chess games but I was referring more along the lines of chess as the time window gets bigger. 1 hour game 3 hour game 2 day game ect.Tbh, I wonder how true this is the more I get into chess. At least at higher levels. There’s more to chess than one would think imo.
A player creates time to think by learning micro/mechanics at a high level and prepairing for situations before the game IE (if i see a stable I make a spear, if I make a stable I make 5 farms). the skill is doing 10000 actions and making correct decisions. if you have the game perform 5000 of those actions than your 1 giving slow people more time to think (yawn) and 2 taking away the skill cap of the top end players who can do it all at the same time. The game then gets easier and the skill cap gets lower creating a closer player base of mediocracy. This is why the ladder becomes 1-2 civs per map. no player can use their skill cap to beat these OP civs anymore. do you see 2k2 players smashing 2k maya/china player with a bottom tier civ anymore? no you don't. what happens when you do? they nerf hoangs celts.More time to think, usually leads to "better" thinking. No amount of practicing will change that.
But again, it's a question of what type of game you prefer and you want to have.
I personally am happy that players now have to fight less with the UI and have more time to think about strategy, as I believe that's very much in the spirit of the game.
I don't think one can make the case AoE2 was ever a game that was especially known for requiring extreme speeds. In fact, we were constantly laughed at by SC2 players because of how much slower our game is.