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  • Netherlandsnimanoe
Total: 58 (members: 1, guests: 57)
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  • Deathmatch

AOE-II Upcoming DM Tournament!

  • Thread starter United StatesGoldiGlock
  • Start date Aug 23, 2019
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G

United StatesGoldiGlock

Member
Aug 23, 2019
18
26
18
  • Aug 23, 2019
  • #1
With the DM Tournament(hosted by Nili) on the horizon and the surge of DM players returning to the Scene
what are your predictions for the tournament Results, Will Viper win another dm tournament or will old players like Kellan reclaim the title of best DM Player?
 
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n0brain

Germanyn0brain

Longswordman
May 1, 2017
217
500
108
  • Aug 24, 2019
  • #2
GoldiGlock said:
With the DM Tournament(hosted by Nili) on the horizon and the surge of DM players returning to the Scene
what are your predictions for the tournament Results, Will Viper win another dm tournament or will old players like Kellan reclaim the title of best DM Player?
Click to expand...
if viper tatoh etc fully engage / train a week, than they will win the pure dm players, sorry :frown:
 
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G

United StatesGoldiGlock

Member
Aug 23, 2019
18
26
18
  • Aug 24, 2019
  • #3
n0brain said:
if viper tatoh etc fully engage / train a week, than they will win the pure dm players, sorry :frown:
Click to expand...
wouldn't you say that discredits the peoples skill who play dm regularly at a top level?
i would not say tatoh is the top of the top dm either. Viper is argueably the best but there are DM players who can contend him for that spot, a few of which are returning for the tournament.
 
OLADUSHEK

BelarusOLADUSHEK

Longswordman
Mar 30, 2016
853
1,030
108
28
Belarus, Minsk
villwar.ru
  • Aug 24, 2019
  • #4
GoldiGlock said:
wouldn't you say that discredits the peoples skill who play dm regularly at a top level?
i would not say tatoh is the top of the top dm either. Viper is argueably the best but there are DM players who can contend him for that spot, a few of which are returning for the tournament.
Click to expand...
We need to find it out in the 1v1 tournament!
 
pete26196

United Kingdompete26196

Longswordman
Jan 1, 2013
266
657
108
27
  • Aug 25, 2019
  • #5
GoldiGlock said:
wouldn't you say that discredits the peoples skill who play dm regularly at a top level?
Click to expand...

Not really, he won the last DM tournament, TLC2
 
n0brain

Germanyn0brain

Longswordman
May 1, 2017
217
500
108
  • Aug 26, 2019
  • #6
GoldiGlock said:
wouldn't you say that discredits the peoples skill who play dm regularly at a top level?
i would not say tatoh is the top of the top dm either. Viper is argueably the best but there are DM players who can contend him for that spot, a few of which are returning for the tournament.
Click to expand...
yea thats what people thought in the last dm tourneys he played in. and than he won in pretty dominating fashion. now situation is even worse: the old dm masters are more or less out of shape or at least not in training while tatoh and viper got even better/continued staying in training. and about tatoh: he played and won with viper in the last 2v2 dm tourney. didnt look worse than any of the dm guys if i recall...
 
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T

TurkeyTheCode

Known Member
Jan 15, 2015
206
238
48
  • Aug 26, 2019
  • #7
I was planning to make a post after the last DM tournament, but did not find time to do so, maybe this is a good place to share my humble opinions.

Whether or not pure DMers can contest against TheViper or other top RMers depends on how the upcoming DM tournament will embrace the true nature of the DM and its distinguishing components as a whole.

The DM, by its design, is a significantly constrained version of AOE. Despite the natural expectations or assumptions that it should be equally constrained in terms of strategy choice and the competitive game play, the DM style have consistenly improved into highly complex and intricate meta architectures over the years. Although it had never been as popular as RM, the DM created its own community with highly competitive/talented players with many exciting tournaments. What we seem to forget in the recent years however, is the question “how” such a constrained and appareantly meaningless version of AOE could evolve itself into a game that requires intense macro, micro ability and provides countless strategy choices.

Everybody is entitled to their own opinion, what excited me the most about DM was realizing the intensive dynamics of first 6 mins of the game. You need to observe the whole map, including the distribution of the resources, hills, relics, the opponent distance, the oppenent opening, market, civ. Then you need to improvise flexible strategy choices which may need to be changed/adapted every second during that period (number and variety of military buildings and units queued, eco balance, map control, villager raid, fights to pick, castles to place) and execute your decisions in a perfect manner under a very chaotic dynamic. The DM is all about how these observations, improvisations and executions in the beginning, snowballs into a victory. That is the main part that makes DM unique, otherwise its nothing but a post-imperial version of RM.

Unfortunately, AOE was not designed to play DM competitively and not all the civs/maps can provide these intensive dynamic components. This is also why DM has been mostly played in arabia-like maps with almost exclusively “fast-paced” civs, which are much less forgiving to the mistakes made in the first 6 mins. The DM is never meant to be played with civs like Byzantines, Vikings, Vietnamese, Koreans, Teutons, Portugese, Aztecs etc..(as has been played in the last DM tournaments). You can do all the mistakes in the beginning with those civs but still can have a chance to pull of a victory, just by playing standard post-imperial RM game. Perhaps a good RM analogy for playing DM with those civs would be losing 4 vills to a boar in dark age, and still have a significant chance of winning in a top-level RM game.

It may be true that the arrogant nature of Jidba sometimes shadowed the message in his words, but he had a point when he continuously decleared his love for “true horses”, and hate for the “joke civs”.

I hope, whoever planning to organize this tourney, can embrace the true DM nature in a proper way. I do not mean that TheViper, Tatoh or other RMers can’t beat pure DMers under right settings, they would still be the favorites, but at least they and the viewers can get the taste of the real dynamics of DM gameplay. Among many other things, the way the recent DM tournaments have been structured has played its role in the complete collapse of what was already a small community.
 
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Sinken

NorwaySinken

Well Known Pikeman
Apr 22, 2013
272
480
78
  • Aug 27, 2019
  • #8
Can anyone tell me how active the pure-DM pros have been lately? I feel like that matters quite a lot..
 
Clemensor

AustriaClemensor

Champion
Jun 9, 2014
1,510
1,703
133
28
Vienna
  • Aug 27, 2019
  • #9
Sinken said:
Can anyone tell me how active the pure-DM pros have been lately? I feel like that matters quite a lot..
Click to expand...

not active at all
 
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Bowserlord

ChileBowserlord

Longswordman
Jul 18, 2018
400
628
108
  • Aug 27, 2019
  • #10
im super hyped for this event! DM 1v1 world cup would be sick as hell
 
ELLaS_Jidba

GreeceELLaS_Jidba

Known Member
Jun 2, 2010
600
135
58
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #11
#1 priority
1vs1 Huns war Green Arabia
1vs1 Franks war Green Arabia

#2 priority
1vs1 Persians war Green Arabia
1vs1 Spanish war Green Arabia
1vs1 Mayans war Green Arabia
1vs1 Goths war Green Arabia

#3 priority
watch #1 and #2 or get out of dm origins and go play rm
 
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Sinken

NorwaySinken

Well Known Pikeman
Apr 22, 2013
272
480
78
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #12
Clemensor said:
not active at all
Click to expand...

So in which case, even Tatoh should be a big contender for #2 then, I assume?
 
True

United StatesTrue

Longswordman
Oct 20, 2010
593
577
108
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #13
In reply to what Orkut and Jidba have said,..

In my opinion, having a mix of many different civs is a good thing for DM events. Surely there are a few civs that are sort of must-haves: Huns, Franks, etc. However, having a couple games of civs that are considered more on the "slow" side can make the tournament a lot less predictable.

As for the maps, I definitely agree with Orkut's statement. Originally when I was more involved with creating DM events, I had thought including a wide variety of maps would give DM a bit more flavor. However, some of the maps (in particular water-based maps) were met with quite a lot of backlash. If I had to run a DM tournament again, I would do my best to limit water maps as much as I could.

In the end, regardless of the settings Nili chooses for the tournament, it should be an interesting one. I'll be praying for no water maps until I see the settings!
 
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Bowserlord

ChileBowserlord

Longswordman
Jul 18, 2018
400
628
108
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #14
ELLaS_Jidba said:
1vs1 Persians war Green Arabia
1vs1 Spanish war Green Arabia
Click to expand...
Khmer and Slavs war is much more fun and skill then Spanish and Persians.
 
dogao

Brazildogao

Champion
May 28, 2008
2,523
2,474
128
31
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #15
ELLaS_Jidba said:
#1 priority
1vs1 Huns war Green Arabia
1vs1 Franks war Green Arabia

#2 priority
1vs1 Persians war Green Arabia
1vs1 Spanish war Green Arabia
1vs1 Mayans war Green Arabia
1vs1 Goths war Green Arabia

#3 priority
watch #1 and #2 or get out of dm origins and go play rm
Click to expand...
#4 priority
play with aoc

#5 priority
play with SQ

#6 priority
find a new excuse after losing
 
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LockeAoC

United StatesLockeAoC

Well Known Pikeman
May 12, 2010
328
337
78
33
Maryland
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #16
Seems like the definition of a DM tourney to DM guys is “play only what we’re good at, that’s it”. Maybe that works for this? Or would it be better to have something with more variety?
 
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n0brain

Germanyn0brain

Longswordman
May 1, 2017
217
500
108
  • Aug 28, 2019
  • #17
mifi said:
Seems like the definition of a DM tourney to DM guys is “play only what we’re good at, that’s it”. Maybe that works for this? Or would it be better to have something with more variety?
Click to expand...
sadly that is often the case it seems. as a viewer i heavily prefer wololo DM even though the classical DMers probably dont excell too much there :frown:
 
True

United StatesTrue

Longswordman
Oct 20, 2010
593
577
108
  • Aug 29, 2019
  • #18
n0brain said:
sadly that is often the case it seems. as a viewer i heavily prefer wololo DM even though the classical DMers probably dont excell too much there :frown:
Click to expand...

I understand there was some small group that wanted to play “classic franks war” recently. Other than that, the majority of classical DMers (including myself) have absolutely no problem with playing WK civs, even if we’re not as fluent with them. I realize Jidba’s post might seem counter to this, but he has not played in a very long time, hence being unfamiliar with wk civs. If he were to try it out, I’m sure he would like a few of them.

I implore you guys to not miss the point of what has been said. It’s not like DM players demand the same-old settings with same-old civs; its more that we appreciate settings that put emphasis on all of the things TheCode mentioned. In more recent tournaments, there has been parts of the settings that force you to play only one way, or in a way that is not worried about many of the key factors that make DM exciting.
 
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JoshuaR

United StatesJoshuaR

Longswordman
Oct 11, 2013
856
1,329
113
  • Aug 30, 2019
  • #19
Wait a second, did Jidba just suggest Mayans? That's not even horse, let alone horse horse.
 
xdreamlegendx

United Kingdomxdreamlegendx

Known Member
Feb 21, 2019
218
199
58
  • Aug 30, 2019
  • #20
Pure DM'ers should always win a DM tournament, although DM has never been as big as RM, I hope this tournament can kick start a renewed sense of interest in DM.

I hope this tournament can kick start a revival of DM, just as Master of the Axe renewed interest in Franks, this tournament I hope takes DM to a whole other level.

I implore you to check out the DMGaming discord where you can chill with others all of whom love DM and keep the game alive: https://discord.gg/mQY6rs - Copy and paste this invite link!

Long Live DM!
 
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