AOE-II Upcoming DM Tournament!

[GoldiGlock]

With the DM Tournament(hosted by Nili) on the horizon and the surge of DM players returning to the Scene
what are your predictions for the tournament Results, Will Viper win another dm tournament or will old players like Kellan reclaim the title of best DM Player?

 

[n0brain]

With the DM Tournament(hosted by Nili) on the horizon and the surge of DM players returning to the Scene
what are your predictions for the tournament Results, Will Viper win another dm tournament or will old players like Kellan reclaim the title of best DM Player?

if viper tatoh etc fully engage / train a week, than they will win the pure dm players, sorry

 

[GoldiGlock]

if viper tatoh etc fully engage / train a week, than they will win the pure dm players, sorry

wouldn't you say that discredits the peoples skill who play dm regularly at a top level?
i would not say tatoh is the top of the top dm either. Viper is argueably the best but there are DM players who can contend him for that spot, a few of which are returning for the tournament.

 

[OLADUSHEK]

wouldn't you say that discredits the peoples skill who play dm regularly at a top level?
i would not say tatoh is the top of the top dm either. Viper is argueably the best but there are DM players who can contend him for that spot, a few of which are returning for the tournament.

We need to find it out in the 1v1 tournament!

 

[pete26196]

wouldn't you say that discredits the peoples skill who play dm regularly at a top level?

Not really, he won the last DM tournament, TLC2

 

[n0brain]

wouldn't you say that discredits the peoples skill who play dm regularly at a top level?
i would not say tatoh is the top of the top dm either. Viper is argueably the best but there are DM players who can contend him for that spot, a few of which are returning for the tournament.

yea thats what people thought in the last dm tourneys he played in. and than he won in pretty dominating fashion. now situation is even worse: the old dm masters are more or less out of shape or at least not in training while tatoh and viper got even better/continued staying in training. and about tatoh: he played and won with viper in the last 2v2 dm tourney. didnt look worse than any of the dm guys if i recall...

 

[TheCode]

I was planning to make a post after the last DM tournament, but did not find time to do so, maybe this is a good place to share my humble opinions.

Whether or not pure DMers can contest against TheViper or other top RMers depends on how the upcoming DM tournament will embrace the true nature of the DM and its distinguishing components as a whole.

The DM, by its design, is a significantly constrained version of AOE. Despite the natural expectations or assumptions that it should be equally constrained in terms of strategy choice and the competitive game play, the DM style have consistenly improved into highly complex and intricate meta architectures over the years. Although it had never been as popular as RM, the DM created its own community with highly competitive/talented players with many exciting tournaments. What we seem to forget in the recent years however, is the question “how” such a constrained and appareantly meaningless version of AOE could evolve itself into a game that requires intense macro, micro ability and provides countless strategy choices.

Everybody is entitled to their own opinion, what excited me the most about DM was realizing the intensive dynamics of first 6 mins of the game. You need to observe the whole map, including the distribution of the resources, hills, relics, the opponent distance, the oppenent opening, market, civ. Then you need to improvise flexible strategy choices which may need to be changed/adapted every second during that period (number and variety of military buildings and units queued, eco balance, map control, villager raid, fights to pick, castles to place) and execute your decisions in a perfect manner under a very chaotic dynamic. The DM is all about how these observations, improvisations and executions in the beginning, snowballs into a victory. That is the main part that makes DM unique, otherwise its nothing but a post-imperial version of RM.

Unfortunately, AOE was not designed to play DM competitively and not all the civs/maps can provide these intensive dynamic components. This is also why DM has been mostly played in arabia-like maps with almost exclusively “fast-paced” civs, which are much less forgiving to the mistakes made in the first 6 mins. The DM is never meant to be played with civs like Byzantines, Vikings, Vietnamese, Koreans, Teutons, Portugese, Aztecs etc..(as has been played in the last DM tournaments). You can do all the mistakes in the beginning with those civs but still can have a chance to pull of a victory, just by playing standard post-imperial RM game. Perhaps a good RM analogy for playing DM with those civs would be losing 4 vills to a boar in dark age, and still have a significant chance of winning in a top-level RM game.

It may be true that the arrogant nature of Jidba sometimes shadowed the message in his words, but he had a point when he continuously decleared his love for “true horses”, and hate for the “joke civs”.

I hope, whoever planning to organize this tourney, can embrace the true DM nature in a proper way. I do not mean that TheViper, Tatoh or other RMers can’t beat pure DMers under right settings, they would still be the favorites, but at least they and the viewers can get the taste of the real dynamics of DM gameplay. Among many other things, the way the recent DM tournaments have been structured has played its role in the complete collapse of what was already a small community.

 

[Sinken]

Can anyone tell me how active the pure-DM pros have been lately? I feel like that matters quite a lot..

 

[Clemensor]

Can anyone tell me how active the pure-DM pros have been lately? I feel like that matters quite a lot..

not active at all

 

[Bowserlord]

im super hyped for this event! DM 1v1 world cup would be sick as hell

 

[ELLaS_Jidba]

#1 priority
1vs1 Huns war Green Arabia
1vs1 Franks war Green Arabia

#2 priority
1vs1 Persians war Green Arabia
1vs1 Spanish war Green Arabia
1vs1 Mayans war Green Arabia
1vs1 Goths war Green Arabia

#3 priority
watch #1 and #2 or get out of dm origins and go play rm

 

[Sinken]

not active at all

So in which case, even Tatoh should be a big contender for #2 then, I assume?

 

[klvowledge]

In reply to what Orkut and Jidba have said,..

In my opinion, having a mix of many different civs is a good thing for DM events. Surely there are a few civs that are sort of must-haves: Huns, Franks, etc. However, having a couple games of civs that are considered more on the "slow" side can make the tournament a lot less predictable.

As for the maps, I definitely agree with Orkut's statement. Originally when I was more involved with creating DM events, I had thought including a wide variety of maps would give DM a bit more flavor. However, some of the maps (in particular water-based maps) were met with quite a lot of backlash. If I had to run a DM tournament again, I would do my best to limit water maps as much as I could.

In the end, regardless of the settings Nili chooses for the tournament, it should be an interesting one. I'll be praying for no water maps until I see the settings!

 

[Bowserlord]

1vs1 Persians war Green Arabia
1vs1 Spanish war Green Arabia

Khmer and Slavs war is much more fun and skill then Spanish and Persians.

 

[dogao]

#1 priority
1vs1 Huns war Green Arabia
1vs1 Franks war Green Arabia

#2 priority
1vs1 Persians war Green Arabia
1vs1 Spanish war Green Arabia
1vs1 Mayans war Green Arabia
1vs1 Goths war Green Arabia

#3 priority
watch #1 and #2 or get out of dm origins and go play rm

#4 priority
play with aoc

#5 priority
play with SQ

#6 priority
find a new excuse after losing

 

[mifi]

Seems like the definition of a DM tourney to DM guys is “play only what we’re good at, that’s it”. Maybe that works for this? Or would it be better to have something with more variety?

 

[n0brain]

Seems like the definition of a DM tourney to DM guys is “play only what we’re good at, that’s it”. Maybe that works for this? Or would it be better to have something with more variety?

sadly that is often the case it seems. as a viewer i heavily prefer wololo DM even though the classical DMers probably dont excell too much there

 

[klvowledge]

sadly that is often the case it seems. as a viewer i heavily prefer wololo DM even though the classical DMers probably dont excell too much there

I understand there was some small group that wanted to play “classic franks war” recently. Other than that, the majority of classical DMers (including myself) have absolutely no problem with playing WK civs, even if we’re not as fluent with them. I realize Jidba’s post might seem counter to this, but he has not played in a very long time, hence being unfamiliar with wk civs. If he were to try it out, I’m sure he would like a few of them.

I implore you guys to not miss the point of what has been said. It’s not like DM players demand the same-old settings with same-old civs; its more that we appreciate settings that put emphasis on all of the things TheCode mentioned. In more recent tournaments, there has been parts of the settings that force you to play only one way, or in a way that is not worried about many of the key factors that make DM exciting.

 

[JoshuaR]

Wait a second, did Jidba just suggest Mayans? That's not even horse, let alone horse horse.

 

[xdreamlegendx]

Pure DM'ers should always win a DM tournament, although DM has never been as big as RM, I hope this tournament can kick start a renewed sense of interest in DM.

I hope this tournament can kick start a revival of DM, just as Master of the Axe renewed interest in Franks, this tournament I hope takes DM to a whole other level.

I implore you to check out the DMGaming discord where you can chill with others all of whom love DM and keep the game alive: https://discord.gg/mQY6rs - Copy and paste this invite link!

Long Live DM!