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AOE-II DE The smurf problem in DE
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Eru_iluvatar
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I honestly didn't even realize what civ you were until after the game. I was wondering why my vils were dying so fast 11
I'd say we should draw inspiration from systems implemented by other games for similar issues. For example, we could create a separate match-maker for accounts that are flagged as smurfs and are verified as smurfs, and if they trie to queue, it only matches them with other smurf accounts. People can smurf away all they like, but they will only hurt other smurfs with their shenanigans. It's a little personal hell and it feels like an evil but genius idea *rubs hands*
kw1k000000
Champion
- Feb 18, 2015
- 1,708
- 2,016
- 128
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- Voobly
- kw1k
- Ladder
- RM - Team Games
- Rating
- 1704
- Wins
- 86
- Losses
- 76
- Streak
- 1
People on this forum (myself included) way too often talk about one game mode, and assume everyone is talking about that game mode as well, while many issues are completely different between the mode. So whenever someone talks about an issue, please try to add which game mode you are referring to in the future.
Is smurfing really an "issue" in 1v1? yeah, I have been playing vs surfs ocassionally, but does it happen frequently? Not to my experience. For streamers maybe, for the average player not so much.
And the problem in Teamgames is mostly, that AoE devs are just too stupid to perform simple calculations with more than two variables. So a comprehensive list of some (simple) changes to fix AoE2:DE Team games could use
1. Some general balance changes to mostly team game relevant units(Paladins, Elephants, some unique units)
2. The elo needs to be reset(to 1v1 elo) and changed to the way elo works in pretty much every single other team game.
3. we need visible unranked elo and a seperate menu for the lobby browser that shows average (unranked) elo within a lobby, so one can easily filter by elo.
4. Add a ignore feature that prevents people from joining your lobbies, and if they are in a lobby with you mark them visibily as a person ignored by you.
5. allow to browse menus, and specifically the lobby browser while in queue
Boom, All those problems will be either solved, or solveable by switching to the lobby browser.
Is smurfing really an "issue" in 1v1? yeah, I have been playing vs surfs ocassionally, but does it happen frequently? Not to my experience. For streamers maybe, for the average player not so much.
And the problem in Teamgames is mostly, that AoE devs are just too stupid to perform simple calculations with more than two variables. So a comprehensive list of some (simple) changes to fix AoE2:DE Team games could use
1. Some general balance changes to mostly team game relevant units(Paladins, Elephants, some unique units)
2. The elo needs to be reset(to 1v1 elo) and changed to the way elo works in pretty much every single other team game.
3. we need visible unranked elo and a seperate menu for the lobby browser that shows average (unranked) elo within a lobby, so one can easily filter by elo.
4. Add a ignore feature that prevents people from joining your lobbies, and if they are in a lobby with you mark them visibily as a person ignored by you.
5. allow to browse menus, and specifically the lobby browser while in queue
Boom, All those problems will be either solved, or solveable by switching to the lobby browser.
At 16+ ELO it happens frequently.
The 60%+ win rate <100 games is kind of a dead giveaway.
That take can only come from a community without smurf queue.
Smurf queue is probably the most hated feature of LoL high-level matchmaking. This is an absolute shitshow with 30 minute queues and 15 minute games. And that's on a game with a gigantic playerbase (even if it's 5v5).
Can you explain this in a little more detail? Specifically how it is leading to that problem. I'm not doubting just curious to learn more.
TheCapybaraWouldn't say it happens frequently. I feel like I come across a smurf maybe once every 25 games or so, probably less. Also doesn't seem like you've hit one for a couple of months (when you had the misfortune of hitting one three games in a row). I agree smurfing is annoying and pretty crappy, but I wouldn't say it's 'frequent'.
Offtopic, and a lot of this is down to the fact LoL uses a 5v5 matchmaking system. Most of these issues would not happen with a AoE smurf queue, simply because a smurfqueue is unrealistic due to the small playerbase.
The game can't differentiate properly between actual smurfs and people who started with a good streak, or between actual smurfs who are top 5% and actual smurfs who are pro players.
Instead of all players meeting a smurf in a game from time to time, the players in smurf queue get smurfed on literally every game... you'd say that's the point, but actually this creates a disastrous experience for them.
In AoE terms, you'll have a new account that wins their 10 placement games and gets placed in smurf queue: you'll have players from 1500 elo to 2500 elo in the same games literally every time. If you let a 2200 player on a normal queue he'll quickly rise to 2k and he'll ruin a few people's experience. If you randomly make him teamup/face players from such a wide range this will create a feeling of complete hopelessness: you win the game based on if the pro player was in your team or the enemy team, and if the player incorrectly flagged as a smurf because he had lucky placement games is in your team or the enemy team, not based on actual skill.
Now why do these players smurf in the first place? Pro players want to practice on secret accounts, extremely high-elo onetricks want to expand their champion pool, players specialized on one lane want to play offrole... and players banned for toxicity want to create new accounts. This means that on average those games are also populated by more toxic people, who are even more toxic due to the fact that there's actually a teamgap (they were already crying when there wasn't, imagine...). Toxicity is not as prevalent in AoE, but you can imagine that the queue would be populated by smurfs of the rare AoE accounts that get banned. Right now, it would be mostly people who exploit the % bug, for instance. Great experience...
The upside of smurf queue is that you rise faster, so there are also players exploiting that and trying to get lucky streaks in smurf queue to boost their MMR and climb the ladder super fast. And if they fail they just start with another account. This creates another layer of toxicity and chaos in that queue.
Overall, the experience is awful and pro players/high level players who genuinely want to train are trapped in a queue dominated by toxic players, system abusers, and uneven games.
Because it's that bad, some people intentionally lose games once they enter smurfqueue to get out of it, or just straight up abandon the account if they got into it without wanting it (think of 16-1800 who wanted to try new things against 1400s and won their first 10 games, and suddenly only face 2k+ players who on top of everything happen to be toxic).
The place is considered as absolute hell, noone wants to play in it and that's a smaller playerbase in the first place, so queues are sometimes of 30 minutes, while those uneven games with massive amount of rage and tilt tend to be super short.
Instead of all players meeting a smurf in a game from time to time, the players in smurf queue get smurfed on literally every game... you'd say that's the point, but actually this creates a disastrous experience for them.
In AoE terms, you'll have a new account that wins their 10 placement games and gets placed in smurf queue: you'll have players from 1500 elo to 2500 elo in the same games literally every time. If you let a 2200 player on a normal queue he'll quickly rise to 2k and he'll ruin a few people's experience. If you randomly make him teamup/face players from such a wide range this will create a feeling of complete hopelessness: you win the game based on if the pro player was in your team or the enemy team, and if the player incorrectly flagged as a smurf because he had lucky placement games is in your team or the enemy team, not based on actual skill.
Now why do these players smurf in the first place? Pro players want to practice on secret accounts, extremely high-elo onetricks want to expand their champion pool, players specialized on one lane want to play offrole... and players banned for toxicity want to create new accounts. This means that on average those games are also populated by more toxic people, who are even more toxic due to the fact that there's actually a teamgap (they were already crying when there wasn't, imagine...). Toxicity is not as prevalent in AoE, but you can imagine that the queue would be populated by smurfs of the rare AoE accounts that get banned. Right now, it would be mostly people who exploit the % bug, for instance. Great experience...
The upside of smurf queue is that you rise faster, so there are also players exploiting that and trying to get lucky streaks in smurf queue to boost their MMR and climb the ladder super fast. And if they fail they just start with another account. This creates another layer of toxicity and chaos in that queue.
Overall, the experience is awful and pro players/high level players who genuinely want to train are trapped in a queue dominated by toxic players, system abusers, and uneven games.
Because it's that bad, some people intentionally lose games once they enter smurfqueue to get out of it, or just straight up abandon the account if they got into it without wanting it (think of 16-1800 who wanted to try new things against 1400s and won their first 10 games, and suddenly only face 2k+ players who on top of everything happen to be toxic).
The place is considered as absolute hell, noone wants to play in it and that's a smaller playerbase in the first place, so queues are sometimes of 30 minutes, while those uneven games with massive amount of rage and tilt tend to be super short.
Last edited:
Memeluke
Champion
- Nov 9, 2016
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The smurf problem finally solved!
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Goodbye Jibatong you won't be missed!
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HongeyKongVPNThe smurf problem finally solved!
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LokaloWell I think my account would fall into your smurf cathegory while I have only 1 account, although bit more than 100 games.
https://aoenexus.com/profile/#5235213-3
But I was only like 1700 pleb during zone times, so anyone who were 1800+ could have way better stats than me in way less games. And so far I encountered one smurf(that was for sure a smurf) 2 games in a row. Had few which I felt they are way stronger than me, but they have been losing to people that I have won against, so maybe just a style which does good against me.
I mean there is smurfing and it sucks, but I would agree with previous posts, is not that common and honestly in 1v1 unlike in LoL you can get your elo very fast back, so I don't really see that big of an issue losing few games as after those you most likely will win a few.
P.S. random question. I remember after Zone was shut down there was something like Voobly, but not sure if it was actually Voobly. I mean was there ever something in between Zone and Voobly? Or Voobly was right after the zone?
cant believe this **** post got 24 likes.I have taken some time to watch a few of your replays and you seem to often forget to drop that ‘gg’ - maybe try loosening your grip on it or take it out your pocket first?
Alternatively, maybe you drop the wrong line and accidentally mix up ‘gg’ with ‘1 TC garbage’ or similar complimentary comments towards aggressive players.
Some opponents also seemed to get bored of you picking Teutons - is placing 6, 7 or maybe even 8 villagers inside of your towers really the strategic diversity you are looking for in this game?
The real time cost-benefit analysis required to pull off such skilful switches between strategies, all whilst using just one civ must be indicative of your amazing conceptual understanding of the fundamental design and inner workings of this game! I am impressed!
It’s just really odd that no one else has picked up on such a hidden gem in the community or tried to learn your unique strategic play style for their own benefit.
I know It’svery difficu to fathom the level of understanding you have, but please enlighten us further
Flies are attracted to ****, I guess
Yeah sometimes really dumb posts get a lot of likes. Gaming communities are still dominated by popularity contest dynamics like all other social circles.
He was just mad I caught him smurfing, and the moderation on this website can't be arsed to remove personal off-topic attacks to include random crude references to jerking off if they're made against certain people.
This is incorrect, or correct in the same way saying that less than 100% is approaching one's elo.
Most people with any meaningful amount of games played will average ~47-53% unless at 2.3k +
At 50 games played with 35 w 15L they are not where near approaching their elo, they are simply smurfs. Giving people the benefit of the doubt is a bit naïve given the prevalence. More often than not it's roughly 30 wins and like 3 losses these days.
If you lost 15 games already you are definitely approaching your elo.
A 35W-15L rate clearly indicates a smurf/an old player returning, but it also indicates that this player's true level isn't really a lot higher than the one he reached. A 2k smurf won't have lost 15 games by the time he reaches 1600, this has to be a 1700 smurf at best.
The 30W-3L example you give is different. That's why people pointed at the difference between a near 100% winrate and a 60-65% one.
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