The official Hera / Nili Drama Thread

[Seahorsegallop]

@Progeusz - I won't quote your post to save pixels.

One point I do totally agree with you on is that Nili is 100% responsible for the content of his channel. He did say that he had not reviewed it, that's his choice but he is still 100% responsible for it.

I don't think that changes my original point that Nili's video was not the classiest, but I do not believe he ever intended it to cause offence and when it did the best way to resolve it and likely the fastest way was for Hera to contact him.

"AOE 2 pros" is relativity small community with a fairly large following, I hate to see dramas like this that could be easily avoided. "Drama" is fun on AOEZONE, but not when it's real between (ex) friends.

 

[felix.feroc]

I love the split on this, because I think everyone is right!

One side sees Hera as almost painfully earnest, and Nili is well within his rights to needle him for comic effect. He even makes a video of it because it is so ridiculous. I imagine that, given their relative strengths, Nili did not even consider the possibility that anyone could take his criticism of Hera seriously.

On the other side, Hera sees Nili's criticism as an attack on his credibility as a caster and as a coach. And it seems in some ways he was right, as Progeusz suggested that some Nili supporters were critical of Hera's statements about pikes and knights.

So you have a kind of inside joke that is understood as such on one side, and an inability to see the joke because it requires specialized knowledge and cultural context that is not really fair to demand of the larger world on the other.

 

[Whitecourt]

Nili's video was probably not the smartest, as he's said now with hindsight, however it should never have generated all this drama. Hera only needed to reach out to Nili, I am pretty sure he has him on Discord, email and maybe even a phone number - a conversation would have saved this from exploding.

Hera's response was just immature and childish, he just wanted some drama.

A conversation would have saved it if Nili didn't upload a video.. where as Hera said, plenty of people will watch the video and see him made fun of (since he does coaching in a general way, being approached in the way Nili did with 0 arguments, can be really frustrating), even if Nili's intentions couldn't be further from the true. From my perspective I really liked the video and Hera's take on it.

 

[kalpit00]

I don't understand why people on aoezone are arguing and fighting like seriously neither Nili nor Hera give a single F about the whole situation. Both of them probably made the videos for laughs and content.

 

[Progeusz]

Yeah, fair, my post ended up much longer than I thought ^^"

I don't think that changes my original point that Nili's video was not the classiest, but I do not believe he ever intended it to cause offence and when it did the best way to resolve it and likely the fastest way was for Hera to contact him.

The thing is... intention doesn't really matter here. The way video looked was very far from what would normal person intend as a joke.
I can believe Nili truly thought it was funny and didn't want it to be offensive... but it simply was. Thinking something is funny doesn't mean you can or should freely do it. That's the line which Nili seems oblivious to or considers himself above.

I'm usually strongly against various snowflakes in Western cultures who seek reasons to be offended for the slightest reasons but this isn't one of those cases. Nili went way too far and it's honestly hard to see his video as a harmless joke. He can hide behind sarcastic German mask all he wants but no, things don't work this way. It was really poor attempt at sarcasm. The way he kept mocking Hera wasn't refined subtle sarcasm people should strive for (if someone's interested, look up Japanese sarcasm or check some older English literature to find examples of actually good sarcasm). What Nili did was low quality and cheap. I wouldn't even call it sarcasm but too many people throw this term around haphazardly and it barely means anything nowadays so oh well. Taking things out of context, misquoting, twisting the meaning. Those are disgusting practices. He should feel ashamed for acting this way in the first place in my opinion, regardless of this whole drama which exploded recently.

 

[Rayne]

I don't understand why people on aoezone are arguing and fighting like seriously neither Nili nor Hera give a single F about the whole situation. Both of them probably made the videos for laughs and content.

Well the last drama thread was only a week ago. People were probably starting to go through aoezone/like withdrawals.

 

[Umdeuter]

I feel like most of the issue here is that people completely overreacted to Nilis video. On Reddit quite some people were really aggressive towards Nili about it, I guess it was similar on Youtube. I can see how he seems to be a **** there, but at the same time it's quite obvious that he did this with an intention of entertainment and that Hera is clearly in the more powerful position as he is the top player and the other guy is not. Some people act like Hera is a bullied child who had nothing to defend himself there.

Dunno, trash talk is obviously kind of a difficult topic because it's based on both sides understanding what's going on. Interesting how different the opinions are on that.

 

[Hunyadi_]

Silly Nili

 

[Joyster]

But do knights counter pikes tho?

Did anyone ever start producing knights, when he/she saw the opponent going pikes? Knts are mobile, beat pikes 1v1, in equal numbers and all that stuff. But you would never scout for pikes and then say „ah yes, i am going knts to counter that“. You go knts and stick with it, even tho the opponent went pikes. But that is not countering. I mean Hera wants to provoke with the framing „knights counter pikes“, „knights beat pikes“ would in more correct, but sounds kinda lame.

Nilis video was so wierd tho, couldn‘t watch the whole thing.

 

[paradox303]

Personally I think it’s totally engineered for clicks and engagement. Both Nili and Hera will understand that these videos do well. This scene ****ing loves drama.

I have zero idea why Hera wouldn’t just send a DM, but instead makes a 16 minute video, to me it makes absolute zero sense - content baby. Nili when going on to the YouTube channel said “7000 clicks” so he’s certainly noting that. The fact he took down the video down is fine, he’s already got a LOT of value from it after only a day. Job done.

I also don’t understand why Hera would say “I don’t usually release content on a Saturday” at the start of a video. Makes absolutely zero sense when it was done on Thursday, released a few hours after Nili done his. Hera on the flip side has 17k views after one day. This is very good. If people think this is bad for them, then you’re absolutely wrong. A silly drama will be forgetting about soon, but the YouTube algorithm will be doing work.

Now grab your tin foil hat, my guess is the editors ****ed up and released the videos at the wrong time (Nili really didn’t look like he had a clue when the video was released, but he is a poker player) without realising that it was meant to be released on Saturday.

 

[Huehuecoyotl22]

I did only watch Nili's video so far. To me it was entertainment. Discussions like those happen between other GL members like Viper, Jordan and DauT frequently too. I mean in the sense of teasing each other and not taking everything seriously.
So I don't know (yet) about Hera's feelings, but I am sure that he and Nili can just talk to each other and this is something that should be forgotten in a month or two the latest.

 

[Liereyy]

Knights do beat pikes in a lot of situation and especially in early caste age. What hera said is 100% true and reasonable. There is a reason why he is among the very best.

 

[Snizl]

Nili when going on to the YouTube channel said “7000 clicks

Is this really good for youtube? They don't have any product placements or sponsorships on their videos. Every statement I have heard yet from youtube content creators is fractions of a cent per add view on an video. Even if we go for 0.5 cents per view that would be like 30$ for Nili max.

 

[Zbyszek]

I was quite shocked about those videos because I see both Nili and Hera as quite unhumerous people. But its refreshing to see Nilis editor being the opposite.
Hopefully he can attract the masses with some lower quality content.
Btw my 20 second google research found that Hera takes 40$ an hour for coaching while Nili takes 500$.
So obviously Hera has no idea what he is talking about.

Edit: By my calculations a single monk healing a knight is equivalent to 4,0 vills on gold and 3,3 on food with feudal age upgrades.
Thats my takeaway from the drama

 

[TopperHarley]

Hera is clearly in the more powerful position as he is the top player and the other guy is not. Some people act like Hera is a bullied child who had nothing to defend himself there.

And there is the problem. Hera SHOULD be in a more powerful position and Nili should never talk as cocky as he did (as he is a noob that is constantly tryharding but never manages to qualify for any major tournament).

However, for some reason (maybe because he is friends with Viper) Nili thinks he has all the wisdom for himself. Typical arrogant behavior

And also i dont believe for a second that Nili didnt watch the video before it was uploaded. The total control freak that Nili usually is you can tell that thats a dirty lie to avoid taking any sort of responsibility

 

[angelina_jolie]

Imo this was really childish behaviour of Nili (making faces while saying something different etc) He comes of so arrogant doing this. I remember that Viper was giving Nili amazing feedback. But Nili kept on disagreeing. You are not going to be better this way. Hera his whole attitude is to learn and to get better. Personally I would love these kind of discussions aswell. Leads to the small details in the game that are so important on the top level!
If it's not about the details/discussion in these kind of games, be friendly atleast. Funny stuff is only funny if both are enjoying it! (Like between GL members)

 

[HongeyKong]

Imo this was really childish behaviour of Nili (making faces while saying something different etc)

This was hilarious tho.

 

[Rayne]

I remember that Viper was giving Nili amazing feedback. But Nili kept on disagreeing.

Wow, really. Hadn’t heard of anyone disagreeing with Viper about game stuff since the good ol’ Carlos Ferdinand vs Viper on aoczone. Lasted 4 pages back when Viper used to post on forums. Good times.

Btw, nice to see you’re still around on here Rik.

 

[Halleju]

First I didn't like that so many big Aoe2 names left for Aoe4. Now if I think about it, Nili could've stayed there.

 

[paradox303]

Is this really good for youtube? They don't have any product placements or sponsorships on their videos. Every statement I have heard yet from youtube content creators is fractions of a cent per add view on an video. Even if we go for 0.5 cents per view that would be like 30$ for Nili max.

Forget about that and compare it to a normal video for Nili, go on to his channel and look at the videos and see how many they have after a day. The algorithm works in mysterious ways.

 

[vesnoimorskoi]

Idk if Knights counter Pikes but at a pleb elo if you see Pikes you just do MORE Knights

 

[angelina_jolie]

Wow, really. Hadn’t heard of anyone disagreeing with Viper about game stuff since the good ol’ Carlos Ferdinand vs Viper on aoczone. Lasted 4 pages back when Viper used to post on forums. Good times.

Btw, nice to see you’re still around on here Rik.

Yeah and now aswell, Hera is 100% right. Early castle age, Knts are better. Aswell eco wise.

Good to see you too Rayne! <3
Home is done now, but adult life is hard 11. Not much free time still
How are you?

 

[oozkan]

I wasn't going to comment on this thread, since these two people are a bit suspicious to me after what they have done when AOE4 came out and I was thinking they are probably trying to get more engagement and all this drama is a scene, but even Liereyy boi answered thread. Wow, I didn't see that coming, him commenting drama threads before, I am really suprised now.

My position is same though, simply a Turkish saying: Eat each other don't pay for the meat, ---- each other don't pay for the ----.

PS: Interesting how robo reacted with attacking our gothhater friend at first post, quite a legit thread imho. This guy is living to defend Nili, probably smells money and power, somebody remind him that Nili lost his place in MS.

 

[Progeusz]

Wow, really. Hadn’t heard of anyone disagreeing with Viper about game stuff since the good ol’ Carlos Ferdinand vs Viper on aoczone. Lasted 4 pages back when Viper used to post on forums. Good times.

Btw, nice to see you’re still around on here Rik.

Yeah there was a period when they streamed Viper coaching Nili a couple of years ago (I think some vids are on Nili's YT channel? not sure but that's how i remember it) and Nili kept arguing with Viper over many small things, often not giving him time to elaborate. It was really awkward considering it was Nili who asked for coaching... but most of the time it felt like Nili thought he knows better (he clearly didn't and in post game analysis it was being pointed out... but situation would repeat next game).

edit:
To be more precise, it looked like Nili was that overly eager student who is much more interested in showing off and making the teacher agree with him, than actually learning something. It took me by a surprise back then because i had never before seen similar attitude during a coaching session in front of viewers.
With the perspective of current drama, I guess this is deeply rooted in Nili and that's why he ignored Hera's continuous attempts to make "knights vs pikes" some educational content for viewers (a lot of people took this is a main lesson anyway and enjoyed this aspect!) - he simply isn't interested in learning or helping others learn, he's more about making other people look worse. I hope things can improve...

 

[Rayne]

Yeah and now aswell, Hera is 100% right. Early castle age, Knts are better. Aswell eco wise.

Good to see you too Rayne! <3
Home is done now, but adult life is hard 11. Not much free time still
How are you?

Indeed life doesn’t seem to get any easier as well.

Honestly it’s been one hell of a past 3-5 months.

From reaching my all-time highest rating in chess which I didn’t expect to hit so soon, to tilting 200 points down, to a family crisis involving two surgeries with a possibility of death beforehand (not regarding me), to someone carelessly putting a very toxic substance where one shouldn’t. Thankfully both surgeries went well — perfectly actually with no death, no one in the house ended up with any damage from the substance (it could’ve caused permanent disabilities), but my chess rating still suffers a little and I don’t play as much as I used to which doesn’t help.

Otherwise, I have a birthday coming up which I actually don’t really care about 11. I haven’t really cared about my birthdays for the past 10 or 12 years. For me at least, it may as well be any other day. I just use it as an excuse to do nothing or as little as possible.

I hope your past months have been better than mine 11.