This patch update has decided to remove Supplies from the following civs:
Chinese* , Cumans* , Huns, Khmer, Lithuanians, Mayans, Mongols* and Tatars!
*of these civs Chinese, Cumans and Mongols had FU Champions in terms of blacksmith and barrack upgrades.
Do you think the removal of this tech hurts any of them? Let's see.
Firstly Chinese:
Considering they were already a top pick in high level games given their flexibility, early villager lead and cheaper techs. I would presume this is to make Chinese less OP vs Mesos in the late stages of the game. I think removing Supplies slightly affects their flexibility but considering they're already a strong civ, maybe Chinese will be fine. But it could bite them back if game is ended before late imperial.
Next up, Cumans:
Perhaps their answer to Halb Ram becomes even more limited in a gold tight situation. They do however have access to Siege Onagers without Siege Engineers. Their own siege rams and Kipchaks (which do really well vs Rams and halbs if microed) perhaps Cumans won't suffer from this loss. I haven't really seen them played enough to ever go Champs though. They have access to fastest paladins in game so meso shouldn't be a huge issue. They're probably not affected by this.
Huns:
I think they might be affected by this despite lacking champions and plate mail. Huns post imp tech tree is pretty lacking focused mostly in cavalry and heavy cav archers and having only access to siege rams. They miss the final armour upgrade for both infantry and ranged units but hun 2h definitely had a place in the game as a solid answer to Halb Ram as Huns dont get Onagers. I think as weird as it sounds. This does affect them.
Khmer:
I don't think they're heavily affected by this. You have one of the best scorpions in the game. As well as Hussar and Skirms missing only thumb ring. Besides their infantry lack both squires and plate mail armour. If scorps isn't your thing Khmer also have hand cannoneers and arbalests. They can suffice without supplies.
Lithuanians:
They could potentially be hurt by this change if you don't happen to have 2 relics collected. Otherwise Leitis and speedy halb and elite skirms should suffice. They also get hand cannoneers so Lithuanians should be okay without supplies for the most part.
Mayans:
This hurts the civ in many ways. Now they don't have a cheap meatshield for their plumes vs huskarls or other eagle warriors. So you'll have to invest into Elite Eagles as well which can burn through gold faster than 2h. But maybe its for the best as Mayans are already a super strong civ. Not needing eco to field the most cost efficient army in the game should come at a price. I think aside from Goths and against other Eagles. Mayans are not heavily affected. Will see.
Mongols:
Of all the civs it could hurt the most. I'd have to say Mongols is on that list. Sure you'd want to go elite mangudai + siege ram 90% of the time but sometimes you need champions. Mongols mid game is not that impressive so losing supplies here doesn't make sense to me. If anyone has any justification as to why I'm willing to hear it. I thought mongols were in a fine place. Just adjust their bonus vs siege a bit.
Lastly, Tatars:
I do think they are affected by this for the same reason Huns are. Tatars got halb because they had no answer to better camel civs when their own camels are generic on equal elevation. Sure they arguably have one of the worst infantry in game lacking chain mail. But if you had to be a civ with halb with only squires and scale mail armour or a civ with FU pikemen like Italians, Mongols, Berbers, Saracens or PA tanky Malian pikemen. You would for sure choose the tatar halb. Any pro would. Maybe you dont see them go 2h on open maps but on arena as an answer to common halb ram advances. This could hurt them. Especially if gold is an issue (needless to say arena has no elevation).
So what are your thoughts on the Supplies changes? Indirect buff to Goths vs these civs?
Chinese* , Cumans* , Huns, Khmer, Lithuanians, Mayans, Mongols* and Tatars!
*of these civs Chinese, Cumans and Mongols had FU Champions in terms of blacksmith and barrack upgrades.
Do you think the removal of this tech hurts any of them? Let's see.
Firstly Chinese:
Considering they were already a top pick in high level games given their flexibility, early villager lead and cheaper techs. I would presume this is to make Chinese less OP vs Mesos in the late stages of the game. I think removing Supplies slightly affects their flexibility but considering they're already a strong civ, maybe Chinese will be fine. But it could bite them back if game is ended before late imperial.
Next up, Cumans:
Perhaps their answer to Halb Ram becomes even more limited in a gold tight situation. They do however have access to Siege Onagers without Siege Engineers. Their own siege rams and Kipchaks (which do really well vs Rams and halbs if microed) perhaps Cumans won't suffer from this loss. I haven't really seen them played enough to ever go Champs though. They have access to fastest paladins in game so meso shouldn't be a huge issue. They're probably not affected by this.
Huns:
I think they might be affected by this despite lacking champions and plate mail. Huns post imp tech tree is pretty lacking focused mostly in cavalry and heavy cav archers and having only access to siege rams. They miss the final armour upgrade for both infantry and ranged units but hun 2h definitely had a place in the game as a solid answer to Halb Ram as Huns dont get Onagers. I think as weird as it sounds. This does affect them.
Khmer:
I don't think they're heavily affected by this. You have one of the best scorpions in the game. As well as Hussar and Skirms missing only thumb ring. Besides their infantry lack both squires and plate mail armour. If scorps isn't your thing Khmer also have hand cannoneers and arbalests. They can suffice without supplies.
Lithuanians:
They could potentially be hurt by this change if you don't happen to have 2 relics collected. Otherwise Leitis and speedy halb and elite skirms should suffice. They also get hand cannoneers so Lithuanians should be okay without supplies for the most part.
Mayans:
This hurts the civ in many ways. Now they don't have a cheap meatshield for their plumes vs huskarls or other eagle warriors. So you'll have to invest into Elite Eagles as well which can burn through gold faster than 2h. But maybe its for the best as Mayans are already a super strong civ. Not needing eco to field the most cost efficient army in the game should come at a price. I think aside from Goths and against other Eagles. Mayans are not heavily affected. Will see.
Mongols:
Of all the civs it could hurt the most. I'd have to say Mongols is on that list. Sure you'd want to go elite mangudai + siege ram 90% of the time but sometimes you need champions. Mongols mid game is not that impressive so losing supplies here doesn't make sense to me. If anyone has any justification as to why I'm willing to hear it. I thought mongols were in a fine place. Just adjust their bonus vs siege a bit.
Lastly, Tatars:
I do think they are affected by this for the same reason Huns are. Tatars got halb because they had no answer to better camel civs when their own camels are generic on equal elevation. Sure they arguably have one of the worst infantry in game lacking chain mail. But if you had to be a civ with halb with only squires and scale mail armour or a civ with FU pikemen like Italians, Mongols, Berbers, Saracens or PA tanky Malian pikemen. You would for sure choose the tatar halb. Any pro would. Maybe you dont see them go 2h on open maps but on arena as an answer to common halb ram advances. This could hurt them. Especially if gold is an issue (needless to say arena has no elevation).
So what are your thoughts on the Supplies changes? Indirect buff to Goths vs these civs?