the known cheater Fulgore!

[robo]

Just see how his resources tick every sec with 10 increment. I think he hadn't trigger this mechanism before his early castle loss. So it seems he enjoys such "gradual" and "adaptive" cheating style

Do you have an exact timestamp when that begins?

 

[SuperskinnyBLS]

I noticed myself as well that he uses some sort of tweak for the military buildings during the game against Capoch ( Turks vs Mayans ). He went from no army to like 70 plumes in a blink.

 

[billyblesky]

Mr. Yo admitted that some of Fulgore's moves are normal in accordance of a top-level player's awareness, like defending drush, quick wall, etc. It is indeed quite difficult to clearly identify suspicious moves. We should not assume anything a priori but carefully analyze the situation instead.

I've tried to summarize Fulgore's interesting actions. Lyx tried a Hoang-esque strategy (walling, sneak villagers, forward siege workshop) in the first 2 games, then got destroyed in the 3rd one as he wasn't able to complete his wall.

1. Every game he is able to locate his herdables and boars almost immediately with either scout or a scouting sheep, then immediately goes to the deers and pushed all 4 of them.
2. After pushing all 4 deers, he goes straight to enemy's base and can consistently find the unwalled part.
3. Not much scouting of enemy's base, resources, military buildings (as appeared in spectator mode or recs)
4. He is often able to find forward villagers, forward siege workshop, monks... without much scouting, and send the scout/change gather point straight to those units or locations.
5. Using "view lock" and spectate the recorded game, it seems that Fulgore sometimes looks at regions full of fog of war. Since house scouting is gone, I don't know the puepose of doing this.
6. Against Lyx, he can consistently locate the relics with his scouts. Just as how he finds his herdables and boars, there was no scouting pattern (e.g. circling the base) typical of our game, straight to the targets. The relic example is an extreme case.

Yo used a different approach: no feudal aggression, almost FC into conqs, maybe trying to win in the late game. An "all-visible" hack would not be as useful in the late game.

1. Without much of scouting of Yo's strategy. Fulgore did not wall his base at all or get loom till Castle Age. (I would imagine that there's still a possibility that Yo could trush or scout rush?)
2. Mid-castle, Fulgore sent 6 villagers to the left of the map and accurately located a cluster of neutral gold, previously unscouted. (He did not run out of gold in his base.)
3. As for allegations of resource cheats, it should be helpful to make a plot of his stone and gold vs time, cross-check with the number of villagers on each resources and check for anormalies if any. I did not notice Fulgore buying any stone. But it's still worthwhile to notice that after throwing quite a lot of CA, Fulgore was still able to make even more CA and click Imperial, and Yo seemed to have a consistent villager lead.

Again, some of these might just be "unorthodox" Arabia play, while some can be suspicious.

 

[robo]

I noticed myself as well that he uses some sort of tweak for the military buildings during the game against Capoch ( Turks vs Mayans ). He went from no army to like 70 plumes in a blink.

link to rec?

 

[SuperskinnyBLS]

link to rec?

I don't remember when that was played :/ few weeks ago, I would have to look through Capoch's profile but to me watching the POV it looked like the plumes were massed too fast

 

[_Ra_]

Fascinating, analyzing proof that water is wet or the sun is hot.

 

[-R-]

Fascinating, analyzing proof that water is wet or the sun is hot.

Well, most of us don't have first hand experience in cheating and map hacks.

 

[Hibiki]

Fascinating, analyzing proof that water is wet or the sun is hot.

now we are just like scientists try to proof a natural law lol

 

[FeAge]

Mr. Yo admitted that some of Fulgore's moves are normal in accordance of a top-level player's awareness, like defending drush, quick wall, etc. It is indeed quite difficult to clearly identify suspicious moves. We should not assume anything a priori but carefully analyze the situation instead.

I've tried to summarize Fulgore's interesting actions. Lyx tried a Hoang-esque strategy (walling, sneak villagers, forward siege workshop) in the first 2 games, then got destroyed in the 3rd one as he wasn't able to complete his wall.

1. Every game he is able to locate his herdables and boars almost immediately with either scout or a scouting sheep, then immediately goes to the deers and pushed all 4 of them.
2. After pushing all 4 deers, he goes straight to enemy's base and can consistently find the unwalled part.
3. Not much scouting of enemy's base, resources, military buildings (as appeared in spectator mode or recs)
4. He is often able to find forward villagers, forward siege workshop, monks... without much scouting, and send the scout/change gather point straight to those units or locations.
5. Using "view lock" and spectate the recorded game, it seems that Fulgore sometimes looks at regions full of fog of war. Since house scouting is gone, I don't know the puepose of doing this.
6. Against Lyx, he can consistently locate the relics with his scouts. Just as how he finds his herdables and boars, there was no scouting pattern (e.g. circling the base) typical of our game, straight to the targets. The relic example is an extreme case.

Yo used a different approach: no feudal aggression, almost FC into conqs, maybe trying to win in the late game. An "all-visible" hack would not be as useful in the late game.

1. Without much of scouting of Yo's strategy. Fulgore did not wall his base at all or get loom till Castle Age. (I would imagine that there's still a possibility that Yo could trush or scout rush?)
2. Mid-castle, Fulgore sent 6 villagers to the left of the map and accurately located a cluster of neutral gold, previously unscouted. (He did not run out of gold in his base.)
3. As for allegations of resource cheats, it should be helpful to make a plot of his stone and gold vs time, cross-check with the number of villagers on each resources and check for anormalies if any. I did not notice Fulgore buying any stone. But it's still worthwhile to notice that after throwing quite a lot of CA, Fulgore was still able to make even more CA and click Imperial, and Yo seemed to have a consistent villager lead.

Again, some of these might just be "unorthodox" Arabia play, while some can be suspicious.

Only thing that appears wrong to me is the fact that that particular arabia vs yo (spanish vs huns) he always had lead on eco, becouse he went 3 tc's and yo fc into castle which needs more economy invested.
BUT, in the other hand, it appeared super weird how awesome his economy Yelds (especially gold. at some point he had 15 ca's in the que from 3 archery ranges and a lot of gold in the bank still.

What worries me the most is the fact that someone (if he really is cheating) could have these hack's and use it like that, its a huge advantage and such a shitty way of winning. I rather play vs Hoang for 1 year than to play against a cheater.

 

[SylvesterLuo]

Only thing that appears wrong to me is the fact that that particular arabia vs yo (spanish vs huns) he always had lead on eco, becouse he went 3 tc's and yo fc into castle which needs more economy invested.
BUT, in the other hand, it appeared super weird how awesome his economy Yelds (especially gold. at some point he had 15 ca's in the que from 3 archery ranges and a lot of gold in the bank still.

What worries me the most is the fact that someone (if he really is cheating) could have these hack's and use it like that, its a huge advantage and such a shitty way of winning. I rather play vs Hoang for 1 year than to play against a cheater.

No offense...But putting Hoang and the cheater in a comparison seems quite out of place. Hoang is an honest guy and steadfast in his way. Decent player.

 

[SylvesterLuo]

Fascinating, analyzing proof that water is wet or the sun is hot.

Nah. The smurf Fulgore is not familiar to the Chinese community. I think Yo and the community did a great job analysing the recs with presumption of innocence. Great attitude even facing actual guilt.

 

[komtan]

no close topic plzzz pkz plzzzzzz
we are mad

 

[RAY]

Looks like this iteration of this hack started being sold late February, hope it gets addressed soon before more start using it

 

[Ondrej94]

Seems like Hoang doesn't give a f about his cheats. Take an example

 

[derpina276]

Only thing that appears wrong to me is the fact that that particular arabia vs yo (spanish vs huns) he always had lead on eco, becouse he went 3 tc's and yo fc into castle which needs more economy invested.
BUT, in the other hand, it appeared super weird how awesome his economy Yelds (especially gold. at some point he had 15 ca's in the que from 3 archery ranges and a lot of gold in the bank still.

What worries me the most is the fact that someone (if he really is cheating) could have these hack's and use it like that, its a huge advantage and such a shitty way of winning. I rather play vs Hoang for 1 year than to play against a cheater.

I checked out the recording in quite some depth, but i did not see anything weird about the economy or incoming or even spending of resources. He just gets a huge eco lead with his very greedy play which should be stupid af to go for but if you see everything it makes perfect sense.

As far as i can tell there is no resource cheating going on. Please check ur facts guys 24.

 

[Halleju]

You know why he is still cheating after a decade in this game or why a guy like felix stalked memb every day for months? Because they get their attention.
Like in this thread, like in Mr. Yo analysis, like in membs daily complaining about felix and so on.
If you just ignore and report them silently, they stop getting attention, maybe a ban here and there and thus lose all their fun. Such behavior becomes boring very fast without any attention. But threads like this give him the fuel to keep on.

 

[ltm]

View attachment 190542
Seems like Hoang doesn't give a f about his cheats. Take an example

Hoang is well prepared because nobody needs an all visible cheat to know what he's up to 11

 

[dataidiot]

You know why he is still cheating after a decade in this game or why a guy like felix stalked memb every day for months? Because they get their attention.
Like in this thread, like in Mr. Yo analysis, like in membs daily complaining about felix and so on.
If you just ignore and report them silently, they stop getting attention, maybe a ban here and there and thus lose all their fun. Such behavior becomes boring very fast without any attention. But threads like this give him the fuel to keep on.

Not really. They will keep doing their thing whether we talk about it or not. Ertug will climb to the top of the ladder with his cheats and get some buddies to call him "nice guy". I'm not sure if felix still harrases memb, but he can always move on to the next victim when he gets bored of the previous one. Not talking about the problem won't make the problem go away.

The only possible solution for some persons is to perma ban them of the community(DE, AoEZone, official forums, even Voobly lol).

 

[King_Marv]

I think Felix stopped harassing memb. Once a aoe zone post had succes although it was his own post which started the which hunt :D

 

[Dagan]

You know why he is still cheating after a decade in this game or why a guy like felix stalked memb every day for months? Because they get their attention.
Like in this thread, like in Mr. Yo analysis, like in membs daily complaining about felix and so on.
If you just ignore and report them silently, they stop getting attention, maybe a ban here and there and thus lose all their fun. Such behavior becomes boring very fast without any attention. But threads like this give him the fuel to keep on.

If someone is cheating for around 10 years then it's not about attention and nothing will really stop them except Anti-cheat tools like the ones Valve use in CS:GO for example (VAC).

 

[HyunaOP]

I think Felix stopped harassing memb. Once a aoe zone post had succes although it was his own post which started the which hunt :D

Felix cancelled himself

 

[Fatihaydemir38]

WOW! What a coincidence 11.

14,5 hours before @Triton_Wang started this thread, I replied in the Liquipedia Discord to confirm Fulgure was an Ertug smurf. They already figured it out out but I still responded with "That indeed is an Ertug smurf". Altough, this was not my initial message what I wanted to place there.

This is what I initially wrote, but then changed my mind to send it because it was not the right place to do. So instead I did send is somewhere else, to keep the message saved and not have to write it allover again. See picture below ( 15 / 03 / 2021 - 02:30am)

Feel free to rewatch the games to confirm him cheating. I did not find this out myself, but highest rated Turkish players, who are playing this game for over 15years. I am actively watching and participating in the community for almost 10years now and Iknow when something is suspicious. This is not only my thoughts, but also from the highest level Turkish players, or players who have way more experience than I do. Names as Rusher (who have been in Korea for the 2002 LAN tournament), Cyclops (not only a legend it Turkey but also globally), Radical (the first founder of the HyM clan in 2004) and even Kasva (the best player Turkey can offer), have seen the footage and are all on the same page... We initially thought it was 'just' streamsniping, but it clearly is not.. there is just too little delay to say it is steamsniping, it has to be some way of cheating..

Just watch the rec against Barles if you have the time for it. The route he takes when he want to scoute his opponent is or playing all visible, or just the least intellegent player ever. Besides that, when Barles is building the stable, you see him looking at Barles's base and then starts producing a spearman..... you only can see that when you turn off the FOW.

Btw, ask Collins for what he did say after the game. If you download the rec, it will not show the full conversation, but please ask Collins what he said. He openly admitted (sarcastic or not) that he uses cheats and is open for sharing it(, because he thinks that it is the only way for all CL members to not be a noob).

Honestly, I agree with @andreskbr. Just ban him from the community (DE, AoEZone, official forums, even Voobly). If he is cheating or not, he is just ruining sooo many games for a lot of people. I am not only talking about the people who he plays and is toxic against, or the top1000 who have to deal with a new smurf everyweek, or the people who feel cheated.. But think about the proscene where @TheViper Is forced to play singleplayer bc of being streamsniped, or @K4SVA who gets followers every stream with nicknames as 'Ertugbestkasvanoob', or Django getting messages about nazi and stuff, or all the other streamers who are just enjoying their time/WORKING and have to explain everytime why they do not want to play against the cheater and always are some people who create chaos in their chats...

All the players who have been banned so far, have never ruined my gaming experience, but Ertug did, multiple times.. Here is even the link where is being homophobic and is calling me gay because I mentioned him in a thread. I am receiving whispers on Twitch from strangers that Ertug is insulting my mother in disgusting ways, because I am the reason he is banned from all tournament. I really wish I was, but at least hope that we will not have to deal with his toxicity anymore. https://www.aoezone.net/threads/aoe2-de-list-of-highest-ratings-reached-rm-1v1-new.171543/page-3

 

[Philippe le Bon]

The funniest thing is devs don't even need to add anti-cheat measures or a permaban to defeat ErTuG_.

When a player matches with an account used by ErTuG_ on the matchmaking thing (list must be updated very regularly), just add a prompt in the lines of:

One of the players you have been matched with has a high probability of using cheats. Do you want to join this match anyway?

(YES) ____________ (NO, RESUME QUEUE)

97% of the players will click no, and soon enough ErTuG_ will get 2 hours queues to get matched with 11xx players.

 

[derpina276]

The funniest thing is devs don't even need to add anti-cheat measures or a permaban to defeat ErTuG_.

When a player matches with an account used by ErTuG_ on the matchmaking thing (list must be updated very regularly), just add a prompt in the lines of:

One of the players you have been matched with has a high probability of using cheats. Do you want to join this match anyway?

(YES) ____________ (NO, RESUME QUEUE)

97% of the players will click no, and soon enough ErTuG_ will get 2 hours queues to get matched with 11xx players.

that seems like waaay more effort then just banning him and his alts

 

[Dr___Mundo]

The funniest thing is devs don't even need to add anti-cheat measures or a permaban to defeat ErTuG_.

When a player matches with an account used by ErTuG_ on the matchmaking thing (list must be updated very regularly), just add a prompt in the lines of:

One of the players you have been matched with has a high probability of using cheats. Do you want to join this match anyway?

(YES) ____________ (NO, RESUME QUEUE)

97% of the players will click no, and soon enough ErTuG_ will get 2 hours queues to get matched with 11xx players.

They don't need to but is easier than the method you are proposing. 11