T90 Titans League - Season 2

The first S-Tier event of 2023 is coming - T90 Titans League is back!


The T90 Titans League is a recurring league which aims to provide a consistent high level stage for pro players to hone their skills, and give newcomers a chance to prove their ability and advance into the upper echelon of players.

Season 2 will begin on 2nd January with 5 weeks of round robins before getting into the playoff round. Players will be placed into ‘pots’ based on their previous placement within T90 Titans League. They will then be randomly drawn, with one player from each pot in each group.

The draw took place on Tuesday 27th December at ~21GMT here.

The groups will be:

Platinum League:

Group A	Group B	Group C	Group D
Vinchester	MbL	Hera	TheViper
Nicov	Liereyy	Jordan	Villese
DauT	Mr Yo	Capoch	Tatoh
ACCM	BacT	miguel	Barles
Valas	Dracken	Ganji	Sitaux
Running	Dark	Kingstone	Sebastian

Gold League:

Group A	Group B	Group C	Group D
slam	classicpro	dogao	Dragonstar
BadBoy	saymyname	SongSong	Vivi
FreakinAndy	Sobek	margougou	F1Re
Daniel	repard	Nili	Lyx/iBUYPOWER
Hearttt/Jibatong	Whocl/Gabi	D3rp/Biry	LaaaaaN/PhillipHJS
Bad Koala/Whitecourt	Mihai/El Matador	Overtaken/Hoang	Somero/Hope

Prize Money

The prize pool of $22,500 has been sponsored by Microsoft.

Platinum League: $17,300
1st place: $2,100
2nd place: $1,400
3rd & 4th place: $1,000
5th - 8th place: $500
9th - 12th place: $200
13th - 24th place: $150

Plus $40 per game won in the group stage (a maximum of $600 if you win all 15 games)

Gold League: $5,200
Group Winner: $180
Playoff Winner: $150
Playoff Loser: $115
4th in Group: $80
5th in Group: $60
6th in Group: $40

Plus $15 per game won in the group stage

Schedule

Platinum League

Group Stage: Jan 2nd - Feb 5th
Round 1: Jan 2nd - Jan 8th
Round 2: Jan 9th - Jan 15th
Round 3: Jan 16th - Jan 22nd
Round 4: Jan 23rd - Jan 29th
Round 5: Jan 30th - Feb 5th

Playoffs: Feb 6th - Feb 12th
Ro12: Feb 9th
Quarterfinals: Feb 10th
Semifinals: Feb 11th
Final: Feb 12th

Gold League

Group Stage: Jan 2nd - Feb 5th
Round 1: Jan 2nd - Jan 8th
Round 2: Jan 9th - Jan 15th
Round 3: Jan 16th - Jan 22nd
Round 4: Jan 23rd - Jan 29th
Round 5: Jan 30th - Feb 5th

Playoffs: Feb 6th - Feb 12th
Deciders: Feb 7th & Feb 8th


Players will be given a large degree of flexibility over scheduling. If they wish to stream their POV, they will be required to play during predetermined slots. These slots will be at 16GMT, 18GMT and 20GMT on Mondays, Thursdays and Saturdays.
If players are unable to play in an available slot, they may play private games, with no pov streaming allowed and the recorded games will be broadcast at another time.

There will be open casting during these timeslots (and of published recs at anytime).

Maps

T90 Titans League Season 2 will feature:

Acropolis
Arabia
Arena
Cross by TheMadCADer
Fortified Clearing by Chrazini
Fortress (Regicide)
Ghost Lake
Kilimanjaro
Nomad
Scandinavia
Shoals by Chrazini

Start practicing today by downloading the map pack here or by searching for “T90 Titans League Season 2 - Map Pack” in the in-game mod workshop.

The map pack is edited and maintained by T-West.

Handbook available here.

 

If you beat everyone in your group you deserve the 1st place and qualify instead of being given an extra opportunity to be eliminated. Otherwise it's just as sad as seeing jordan getting 2nd place in CoT 2013 after winning vs everyone in the final round robin. Being consistent at high level is much harder to achieve than casually beating someone 3-0 in a good day.

 

If you beat everyone in your group you deserve the 1st place and qualify instead of being given an extra opportunity to be eliminated. Otherwise it's just as sad as seeing jordan getting 2nd place in CoT 2013 after winning vs everyone in the final round robin. Being consistent at high level is much harder to achieve than casually beating someone 3-0 in a good day.

Could you not make a case for some one who 3-0's every body but lost 1 match (on a bad day) 1-2? So, they didn't technically "beat" everyone. But one could say they are better than someone who has scores of 2-1 in all his matches. Maybe he got lucky on a few of those sets. Its just 3 matches and its play all 3. So, normal rules don't/shouldn't apply. I think the tournament is better for it too.
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Anyways, I think I've beat this argument to death. Like I sad, I do understand the counter point of view but I prefer this one because its slightly novel.

 

If you beat everyone in your group you deserve the 1st place and qualify instead of being given an extra opportunity to be eliminated. Otherwise it's just as sad as seeing jordan getting 2nd place in CoT 2013 after winning vs everyone in the final round robin. Being consistent at high level is much harder to achieve than casually beating someone 3-0 in a good day.

Thank you! I was going insane trying to remember which tournament that happened in. (Was looking through all the Top Experts Leagues.)

 

I agree that someone who beats everyone else in their group should 100% get first place. It‘s extremely unfair for Lan/Jordan in these two examples (Titans League and CoT) to end up 2nd.

Imagine in the Premier League a team that wins all games won‘t be champions because some other team has a ridiculous goal diffference, who would ever want that?

 

Imagine in the Premier League a team that wins all games won‘t be champions because some other team has a ridiculous goal diffference, who would ever want that?

You cannot just equal games/goals with sets/games ... which should already be clear from the peculiar appearance of the term "games" on both sides but at different levels ...

To stay in your analogy: Suppose, Premier League would be three full round robbins in one season, instead of two. Would you really count "sets" of the three games two teams played against each other, to determine the winner in the end?
The only difference being, that in TTL the three games of one "set" are played all at once.
They are not one match, they are really just three games played. I think, that is the origin of the disagreement here.

 

I agree that someone who beats everyone else in their group should 100% get first place. It‘s extremely unfair for Lan/Jordan in these two examples (Titans League and CoT) to end up 2nd.

Imagine in the Premier League a team that wins all games won‘t be champions because some other team has a ridiculous goal diffference, who would ever want that?

The moment when you realize that Vivi won more games than LaaaN during the group stage.

 

You cannot just equal games/goals with sets/games ... which should already be clear from the peculiar appearance of the term "games" on both sides but at different levels ...

To stay in your analogy: Suppose, Premier League would be three full round robbins in one season, instead of two. Would you really count "sets" of the three games two teams played against each other, to determine the winner in the end?
The only difference being, that in TTL the three games of one "set" are played all at once.
They are not one match, they are really just three games played. I think, that is the origin of the disagreement here.

Well i think that the comparison is quite good.

E.g. United play Liverpool in an 90 min match and win 2-1. In a similar timeframe on that same evening Jordan beats Nicov 2-1.

There are two main problems that i have with overvalueing the „games“ wins over the „set“ wins in TTL:

-every game you win is valued exactly the same, no matter whether it‘s vs TheViper or some lesser opponent
-you may be placed below an opponent in the final table, although you have beaten everyone (including that player that is placed above). I think thats outrageous

Possibly a good compromise is awarding these bonus points for winning all sets (as it was referenced from the Rugby Six Nations) and leave the system the same otherwise.

 

-every game you win is valued exactly the same, no matter whether it‘s vs TheViper or some lesser opponent

Isn't that the same in PL too? Regardless if you win against Arsenal or Everton, you get the same points.

 

Isn't that the same in PL too? Regardless if you win against Arsenal or Everton, you get the same points.

In PL you don’t get more points when you smash a pleb team 3:0, in TTL you do.

 

In PL you don’t get more points when you smash a pleb team 3:0, in TTL you do.

You play 2 matches against the same opponent, in TTL you have 3.

 

In PL you don’t get more points when you smash a pleb team 3:0, in TTL you do.

If you're really the best player in your group, then surely you should be able to smash "pleb" players 3:0 as easily as anyone else in your group, if not more so.

 

13:2 is just more impressive than 10:5

 

If it is really an issue that winning all sets doesn't guarantee you the top spot, it could be avoided all together, if just top 2 plainly advance and bottom 2 go down.

Relegation matches could be between p4 in the higher league and p3 in the lower league (instead of internally in the lower league).

 

Just finished Thursday's VOD- can't help but think that Viper was really giving Jordan a chance there... think it was the second game, at 1-0, he had about 10k resources but just stopped making army... really weird.

 

Both leagues should have same criteria and since platinum relegate 2 players directly without any decider, gold league could have 2 players to promote directly since I think deciders is not needed and situations like winning all sets will be rewarded same as winning more games, “problem” solved.

I think is weird that a player than won all series is 2nd because yeah is impressive that vivi win for 3-0 yeah but he is 1st losing against 2nd player so if both are promoted then the meaning of winning more games and winning all sets is still very important.

 

Why do we compare this with football, if there are sports out there that actually award different points depending on the score? Pretty sure in Volleyball it makes a difference if you win 3:0 or 3:2. And in Icehockey (atleast in Europe/Germany) you only get 2 points (and your opponent 1) if you win in overtime.
So in a group of four teams, a team that wins three times in overtime would have less points than a team that wins two times in regular time and loses in OT.

If actual match wins are the only thing that should count for Titans League, then we don't need three maps, just make it a Bo3. Since someone said, concerning the rather confusing schedule that you shouldn't consider it as rounds, but just a timespan in which players can play - apply a somewhat similiar concept to the maps: Don't see it as "a match on three maps", but just three maps that are not connected with each other and technically could be played out at different times insteadf of all at once.

 

I agree with the general sentiment, but don't forget one thing - what kept this tournament enjoyable even for the one-sided matchup is that every map matters. Too many tourneys see underdogs having a great prepared strat or a great game and getting nothing in return for it because they simply lose 1-2 or 1-3. This modus finally found a way around that.

(If you look for an example, Margougou vs Hera recently comes to mind)

 

I think this system has a flaw that affects directly to players that aren't top-ten or 'elite' of AOE2: it's expected to see players like Viper, Hera and TaToH taking the first positions in their groups, but not to see the people who get promoted from Gold League to beat them. Even if it's 2-1, it's still a win. And winning series should be more important than winning specific games. If you come from Gold, and do a big effort to beat every single pro in your group, it can not be fair that you finish in second place because you couldn't beat Viper 3-0, it should be more important that you beat Viper (taking him as an example of course).

LaaaaaN's case it's also unfair and another example of this. He was the best from his group but get relegated to a second place and lost what should be the chance to compete in the best division with the best players. So, with the actual system, you have competitors that receive some kind of punishment for not being on top and defeat everyone 3-0 even when they can defeat the best players of the tournament, and people that can show a great level but ultimately can be left behind because of one single game.

Hope this helps to bring some light to some details to check on Titans League, it's a great tournament and I personally enjoyed both seasons, and even wish there is more to see from a competition with this format.

 

13:2 is just more impressive than 10:5

I think this system has a flaw that affects directly to players that aren't top-ten or 'elite' of AOE2: it's expected to see players like Viper, Hera and TaToH taking the first positions in their groups, but not to see the people who get promoted from Gold League to beat them. Even if it's 2-1, it's still a win. And winning series should be more important than winning specific games. If you come from Gold, and do a big effort to beat every single pro in your group, it can not be fair that you finish in second place because you couldn't beat Viper 3-0, it should be more important that you beat Viper (taking him as an example of course).

LaaaaaN's case it's also unfair and another example of this. He was the best from his group but get relegated to a second place and lost what should be the chance to compete in the best division with the best players. So, with the actual system, you have competitors that receive some kind of punishment for not being on top and defeat everyone 3-0 even when they can defeat the best players of the tournament, and people that can show a great level but ultimately can be left behind because of one single game.

Hope this helps to bring some light to some details to check on Titans League, it's a great tournament and I personally enjoyed both seasons, and even wish there is more to see from a competition with this format.

This is the exact opposite of the current system. The current system awards lower-tier players for taking a game against much higher tier opponents. It's how players like Dracken are able to survive in platinum league (promoted from gold) while only winning 1 set.
If you value sets over map wins, both MBL and Dark would have survived and Dracken would have been demoted.

The current system makes every single game matter, and forces players to draft and prepare for every single map

 

It's how players like Dracken are able to survive in platinum league (promoted from gold) while only winning 1 set.

Honestly, that's unfair to me too. DracKeN is still in Platinum by winning just one set and Dark gets relegated to Gold after winning two sets, doesn't make too much sense to me. Same thing happened with Overtaken, relegated to Silver because of one single game. It's just like the entire tournament is based on best-of 1 matches. Don't get me wrong, I loved the whole event, it's just that some results are not quite fair to me, and even when it happened in just a few cases (by now), the problem with 'winning 3-0 or no win' can be a real trouble in the future.

 

I

If you're really the best player in your group, then surely you should be able to smash "pleb" players 3:0 as easily as anyone else in your group, if not more so.

Honestly, that's unfair to me too. DracKeN is still in Platinum by winning just one set and Dark gets relegated to Gold after winning two sets, doesn't make too much sense to me. Same thing happened with Overtaken, relegated to Silver because of one single game. It's just like the entire tournament is based on best-of 1 matches. Don't get me wrong, I loved the whole event, it's just that some results are not quite fair to me, and even when it happened in just a few cases (by now), the problem with 'winning 3-0 or no win' can be a real trouble in the future.

It's been pretty clear from the outset of the tournament that winning a set is not a thing. It's a league format where you can't slack off on every third map. I don't see how there's any problem here

 

Honestly, that's unfair to me too. DracKeN is still in Platinum by winning just one set and Dark gets relegated to Gold after winning two sets, doesn't make too much sense to me. Same thing happened with Overtaken, relegated to Silver because of one single game. It's just like the entire tournament is based on best-of 1 matches. Don't get me wrong, I loved the whole event, it's just that some results are not quite fair to me, and even when it happened in just a few cases (by now), the problem with 'winning 3-0 or no win' can be a real trouble in the future.

I agree, it's unfair. I felt bad for staying in Platinum despite winning only 1 set. That's why I asked T90 to relegate me back to Gold. MbL will stay in Platinum instead.

 

I love the format to be honest and I'd not change anything about it. TTL has been my favourite tournament since it started. First season was great, S2 was even better. Quality went up both for Platinum and Gold (which was kinda expected as players were able to balance out the original S1 seeding - no complaints about it). I could write a long paragraph about all the benefits of this event and why the league system was so needed.
There are 2 things that I'd change though - civ draft and map selection. I know TTL is following the draft system of basically all tournaments. My issue with it is that it's providing matchups featuring pretty much 4-5 civs per map. I proposed the idea of using randomizer to restrict civ pools, which I believe is the future of aoe2. There will be more tournaments testing this though, although I'm confident saying this would work really well for TTL. For now though, with 5 picks and 3 games I'd really like to see 1 snipe per player at the end of the draft. It would add a lot of strategy and even bit of civ variety.
Also I'm not the biggest fan of many TTL maps, IMO S1 map selection was better. Nomad isn't a good map for tournaments as it's way too luck based. Having Spanish or Portuguese on short distance TCs compared to full distance makes so much difference. Obviously the luck with start is another thing. Maps like Fortress, Shoals or Ghost Lake are really defensive with 1 clear developed meta so they're pretty repetitive and boring to watch. Kilimanjaro is straightforward too and Scandinavia isn't fun to play. I like that there's clear effort to have really varied map pool, but for example Golden Swamp from S1 is very strategically diverse while it's kind of similar map to Shoals. In terms of aggresive maps with unique food distribution, Serengeti also worked better than Kilimanjaro. And this season didn't have the map where preparation is needed because it's so unique, S1 had Houseboat.
I'm sure the map pool will change again for Season 3 though.

 

I agree, it's unfair. I felt bad for staying in Platinum despite winning only 1 set. That's why I asked T90 to relegate me back to Gold. MbL will stay in Platinum instead.

yeah, it was just an opinion. No need for a sarcastic comeback anyways, I have nothing against you. Could be you or whoever in that same situation, but ok

 

Your baiting attempt is low even for your standards....

Did I touch a nerve?

Not sure which universe mentioning the discourse surrounding map selection could be considered "bait." lmao. People are just playing open maps like closed maps with extra steps. Sorry if this offends your preferences?