So, what do you expect next for AOE2:DE post AOE4?

[Rorarimbo]

Listen: if you look at the numbers and the comments about tournament sponsorship for AOEIV, it clearly suggests that AOEIV is going to be the main AOE game out there for quite some time. The Twitch numbers haven't declined from around 20,000 so far, the tournament has got big interest, there are lots of professionals from other games coming to play it.

I believe that AOE2 is a better game, but I don't think AOEIV is a bad game and I definitely don't think that it is just going to vanish. Everyone who is honest says that AOEIV is a fun game with huge potential if the many problems are fixed. If you love AOE2 the best thing is to think about how best to manage AOE2 being second, much as AOE3 was for a long time, rather than complaining bitterly about how streamers have abandoned the game or 'betrayed the community'.

I also think claiming that AOE4 is simply an awful game is actually very counterproductive to AOE2's long-term health — it implies that AOE4 is nothing to worry about because AOE2 is such a classic it could never have a competitor. I think we have to think of AOE2 as in the long-term approaching the AOE3 predicament: (generally) good game, small community, little money. How can we stop that? Is there even anything that we can do to stop that?

AoE4 is not a bad or an awful game. But as you say yourself, it is not as good as AoE2 is. I dont see its huge potential but this is smth we are going to see how manifests in the future. I think the AoE4 hype right now is more than normal despite I already see lowering numbers of players. Im sure if it wasnt called AoE it wouldnt get even half of the attention. While I agree it will stay up there for quite some time as major title of the franchise the reasons for this are not because it is "such an unbeliavable game" but MS policy to push it and the way alot of "influencers" behave.

It is more than understandable that MS wants to make its newest product as big as possibe as there is commercial gain. On the other hand a lot of Pro players see a potential to be part of a bigger pro scene with more money and audience. They do not want to miss their chance if this turns to be the next big thing in RTS, so they jumt the hype train. That is again logical plus a lot of them have played tens of thousands of AoE2 games. Having smth new to explore and enjoy is also good.

These also explains why it is mainly players who jump on the 100% AoE4 hype train. Most big casters: T90, Dave, Memb try to balance their content as they are closer to their core viewers preferences. I exclude here Nili who is working for MS also an expert player himself, and Lidakor who is not as successful in AoE2 and sees his big chance at the AoE4 stage.

Understanding this situation doesnt answer several key questions which lead to this "conflict" situation.
1. Is AoE4 currently better game than AoE2? No, it is not
2. Does it have potential to get better than AoE2.According to few, but unlikely to happen.
3. Than should it really be the main title of the franchise? No. not really. It is other factors we explained already that make it such.

If that is the case why are we wondering there are so many frustrated AoE2 fans. Ofc ppl are feeling betrayed and abondoned and they are vocal about that. They will be vocal to a point and than will withdraw their interest and support. It is those who are now presenting 100% AoE4 content to decide are these people important to them or the prospect of AoE4 outweights alot of their core audience who have been loyal to them for years. Does loyalty go one way or you could actually start the stream with two AoE2 games to get your fingers going. Or may be end with one AoE2 game to keep you mechanics in shape for the comming KotD4 and show ppl you actually care bout AoE2 competitions.

 

[Sticky Ice Cream]

The problem was not aoe4 but microsoft...

Part of the problem is Microsoft, definitely. I recall Dave on one of his streams from this month (or was it late October?) where he briefly mentions Forgotten Empires wants to do a lot more for AoE II DE, but Microsoft won't let them. And now Relic very likely has to deal with the same problems from Microsoft for improving AoE IV. It's bizarre mismanagement, but believable for a AAA company, to revive this literally billion dollar franchise and then immediately bind its developer's freedom to improve the game.

 

Part of the problem is Microsoft, definitely. I recall Dave on one of his streams from this month (or was it late October?) where he briefly mentions Forgotten Empires wants to do a lot more for AoE II DE, but Microsoft won't let them. And now Relic very likely has to deal with the same problems from Microsoft for improving AoE IV. It's bizarre mismanagement, but believable for a AAA company, to revive this literally billion dollar franchise and then immediately bind its developer's freedom to improve the game.

Well, we can always let the employees of these companies know that they are free to leak the source code of those games anonymously and let the community develop their solutions as well. There are enough solutions or people that would help with doing that and host the source code. Just send a DM.

 

[lecracheursagacite]

Part of the problem is Microsoft, definitely. I recall Dave on one of his streams from this month (or was it late October?) where he briefly mentions Forgotten Empires wants to do a lot more for AoE II DE, but Microsoft won't let them. And now Relic very likely has to deal with the same problems from Microsoft for improving AoE IV. It's bizarre mismanagement, but believable for a AAA company, to revive this literally billion dollar franchise and then immediately bind its developer's freedom to improve the game.

I'm not sure I would say that preventing Forgotten Empires from doing anything more for DE is bad management.

 

[TheViper]

I will try to share some of my thoughts and reply to some other stuff thrown around here, it will probably be quite disorganized, so bare with me:

First of all, I don't know about all the other countries, but in Germany you are required by law to disclose sponsorships. If I was being paid to stream AoE4 and didn't disclose it, I'm actually commiting a fellany, so those are quite strong accusations thrown around. And every company I've ever worked with has demanded a disclosure when I advertise their product in some way, so I'd imagine it's required by law many other places, and wanted by both consumer and advertiser. I am not being paid to promote, say nice things about AoE4 or anything like that, nor do I think anyone else is. Then they wouldn't have liked whenever I've shared negative thoughts, something people seem to have missed out on.

Some people also seem set on the fact that it is a **** game, and since you have decided that, the only possible reason X or Y is playing the game, is because of your own made up reasons. A video game is like music taste, subjective, you will like some and not some others. Creating all these conspiracy theories and reasons for X and Y to be doing what he/she is doing, and not accepting the reason that person is giving, I find to be a bit offensive. In the end you can believe what you want of course, but going around making contradicting statements to what the very person is saying I find quite rude. I've watched a couple of AoE2 creators that have streamed AoE4 and said they've had fun playing it, and believe it or not, that can be the main reason they want to play it.

I also feel that people take praise for AoE4 as offense to AoE2. I don't see why that has to be connected? I've said many good things about AoE4 that I like, but I've also given it a lot of criticism on things it needs to improve, just like I do with AoE2. I've never seen anyone comment anything on when I'm sharing negative thoughts on AoE4, but for some reason when I'm giving it praise on other areas, some people act as if I'm betraying AoE2?

I am still having a ton of fun playing AoE4 and discovering a new, fresh game right now, especially it being the successor a the game where my name has been built, and it's fun to see the competition come in from a lot of different games. There is also the Genesis tournament finishing this weekend, and I have had fun playing the first AoE4 event too. It's nice to be able to have fun and stream another game while also getting a little bit of a break from AoE2. If this fun is gonna last 2 more weeks, 4 more months, or 7 more years, I cannot say, but that will depend on how much the devs are able to improve the game and how much competition is pursued within it.

The timing of KotD is a bit awkward. Noone could know how well AoE4 would do or if it was gonna be a really good game or not, and I don't think you can expect, in a streamer game such as AoE2, for people to just disregard AoE4 because of "loyalty". It is both an opportunity to gain exposure for your channels, but also explore a new, potentially fun game and get competitive in a new RTS, that may even be considered eSports at some point. Whether you're cynical and play it just because of it being AoE4 and opportunities that come along is a decision each creator and competitor has to make for themselves, but for my own case I can simply say that I'm having a ton of fun playing it, and that's the main reason I have streamed and played it a lot lately. If it brings in more exposure to any of my content, or if I improve at the game and can compete, then that is just a big plus.

Am I disrespecting Memb or AoE2 by playing AoE4 atm? I don't see why? KotD is obviously a big tournament, and I believe I'll be able to enter the tournament in top AoE2 shape. What more should I be expected to deliver for the tournament as a player? Is it my job to promote it on social media, stream and talk about it, otherwise? I don't believe so, but if I was asked to retweet a tweet or something, I've never had any issue with that. Or play a showmatch or anything of that kind. I think players/streamers in general always have been extremely helpful in promoting events without asking for anything in return, so I don't see why suddenly we're disrespecting an event just because we're not actively playing AoE2 or constantly talking about it at the moment? The timing of KotD is, as mentioned, awkward, and I don't think the responsibility is on the streamers within the community to make sure it's seen.

I do understand that a lot of AoE2 fans that don't like AoE4 is disappointed that a lot of players and streamers are giving it a go, but I think a lot of people aren't showing understanding from our perspective. The game is a fresh breath of air into our lives, it is nothing wrong with giving it a go, and enjoying it. Streamers and players that have made money from streaming or built their careers in AoE2 shouldn't be held captive to AoE2 because of that.

I also think you overestimate how much information we in GL are getting from Nili. Do you not know the guy? He gives admin wins against his teammates. We're not playing AoE4 because of some secret information Nili has given us, nor do I think we know more than other players in the scene. Usually the tournament hosts reaches out to us and lets us know in advance about dates and such if they want us to, not Nili. KotD, NAC, HC, Empire wars 2v2, Red Bull etc, if I've ever received early information there, it's usually directly through the host/staff of the event.

I will start playing AoE2 again after the Genesis tournament in order to get back into top shape for KotD. This AoE4 break has given me a good break from AoE2, and I'm starting to look forward to getting back into it and getting used to the AoE2 mechanics again. I think the same goes for a lot of other AoE2 profiles that have been giving AoE4 a go, they will focus on AoE2 again very soon.

Will I go back to AoE4 after Kotd or play AoE4 also during Kotd? I will probably mix in some AoE4 during my streams during KotD, yes. I will probably stream both games going forward. How my attention and prioritization will be I cannot say, that will depend on what events are coming and how much I'm enjoying either game. In my opinion both games can co-exist and both be successful.

AoE2 is my first child, but that doesn't mean that I cannot have a second child and love that one as well. Only the future can tell what will happen, but I strongly believe both games can, and will, continue to deliver and live on!

Sorry for jumping so much all over the place, but it has bothered me a little bit to see some of the comments thrown around, and I felt like addressing it and sharing my thoughts.

Thanks for the Ted talk.

 

[z3us]

AoE2 is my first child, but that doesn't mean that I cannot have a second child and love that one as well. Only the future can tell what will happen, but I strongly believe both games can, and will, continue to deliver and live on!

I think most of the hate and toxicity comes from the fact that the first child has been kinda neglected by the teachers (devs), and I personally feel that you and other top aoe2 content creators should have done more to make sure the child wasn't neglected by teachers. Maybe it is not fair of me to have these expectations, but I just don't want this child with lots of potential to be sidelined because of incompetent teachers and shitty school administration.

 

[Bowserlord]

aoe2 is older then 20 years, let it rest in peace. We have seen everything.

 

I will try to share some of my thoughts and reply to some other stuff thrown around here, it will probably be quite disorganized, so bare with me:

First of all, I don't know about all the other countries, but in Germany you are required by law to disclose sponsorships. If I was being paid to stream AoE4 and didn't disclose it, I'm actually commiting a fellany, so those are quite strong accusations thrown around. And every company I've ever worked with has demanded a disclosure when I advertise their product in some way, so I'd imagine it's required by law many other places, and wanted by both consumer and advertiser. I am not being paid to promote, say nice things about AoE4 or anything like that, nor do I think anyone else is. Then they wouldn't have liked whenever I've shared negative thoughts, something people seem to have missed out on.

Some people also seem set on the fact that it is a **** game, and since you have decided that, the only possible reason X or Y is playing the game, is because of your own made up reasons. A video game is like music taste, subjective, you will like some and not some others. Creating all these conspiracy theories and reasons for X and Y to be doing what he/she is doing, and not accepting the reason that person is giving, I find to be a bit offensive. In the end you can believe what you want of course, but going around making contradicting statements to what the very person is saying I find quite rude. I've watched a couple of AoE2 creators that have streamed AoE4 and said they've had fun playing it, and believe it or not, that can be the main reason they want to play it.

I also feel that people take praise for AoE4 as offense to AoE2. I don't see why that has to be connected? I've said many good things about AoE4 that I like, but I've also given it a lot of criticism on things it needs to improve, just like I do with AoE2. I've never seen anyone comment anything on when I'm sharing negative thoughts on AoE4, but for some reason when I'm giving it praise on other areas, some people act as if I'm betraying AoE2?

I am still having a ton of fun playing AoE4 and discovering a new, fresh game right now, especially it being the successor a the game where my name has been built, and it's fun to see the competition come in from a lot of different games. There is also the Genesis tournament finishing this weekend, and I have had fun playing the first AoE4 event too. It's nice to be able to have fun and stream another game while also getting a little bit of a break from AoE2. If this fun is gonna last 2 more weeks, 4 more months, or 7 more years, I cannot say, but that will depend on how much the devs are able to improve the game and how much competition is pursued within it.

The timing of KotD is a bit awkward. Noone could know how well AoE4 would do or if it was gonna be a really good game or not, and I don't think you can expect, in a streamer game such as AoE2, for people to just disregard AoE4 because of "loyalty". It is both an opportunity to gain exposure for your channels, but also explore a new, potentially fun game and get competitive in a new RTS, that may even be considered eSports at some point. Whether you're cynical and play it just because of it being AoE4 and opportunities that come along is a decision each creator and competitor has to make for themselves, but for my own case I can simply say that I'm having a ton of fun playing it, and that's the main reason I have streamed and played it a lot lately. If it brings in more exposure to any of my content, or if I improve at the game and can compete, then that is just a big plus.

Am I disrespecting Memb or AoE2 by playing AoE4 atm? I don't see why? KotD is obviously a big tournament, and I believe I'll be able to enter the tournament in top AoE2 shape. What more should I be expected to deliver for the tournament as a player? Is it my job to promote it on social media, stream and talk about it, otherwise? I don't believe so, but if I was asked to retweet a tweet or something, I've never had any issue with that. Or play a showmatch or anything of that kind. I think players/streamers in general always have been extremely helpful in promoting events without asking for anything in return, so I don't see why suddenly we're disrespecting an event just because we're not actively playing AoE2 or constantly talking about it at the moment? The timing of KotD is, as mentioned, awkward, and I don't think the responsibility is on the streamers within the community to make sure it's seen.

I do understand that a lot of AoE2 fans that don't like AoE4 is disappointed that a lot of players and streamers are giving it a go, but I think a lot of people aren't showing understanding from our perspective. The game is a fresh breath of air into our lives, it is nothing wrong with giving it a go, and enjoying it. Streamers and players that have made money from streaming or built their careers in AoE2 shouldn't be held captive to AoE2 because of that.

I also think you overestimate how much information we in GL are getting from Nili. Do you not know the guy? He gives admin wins against his teammates. We're not playing AoE4 because of some secret information Nili has given us, nor do I think we know more than other players in the scene. Usually the tournament hosts reaches out to us and lets us know in advance about dates and such if they want us to, not Nili. KotD, NAC, HC, Empire wars 2v2, Red Bull etc, if I've ever received early information there, it's usually directly through the host/staff of the event.

I will start playing AoE2 again after the Genesis tournament in order to get back into top shape for KotD. This AoE4 break has given me a good break from AoE2, and I'm starting to look forward to getting back into it and getting used to the AoE2 mechanics again. I think the same goes for a lot of other AoE2 profiles that have been giving AoE4 a go, they will focus on AoE2 again very soon.

Will I go back to AoE4 after Kotd or play AoE4 also during Kotd? I will probably mix in some AoE4 during my streams during KotD, yes. I will probably stream both games going forward. How my attention and prioritization will be I cannot say, that will depend on what events are coming and how much I'm enjoying either game. In my opinion both games can co-exist and both be successful.

AoE2 is my first child, but that doesn't mean that I cannot have a second child and love that one as well. Only the future can tell what will happen, but I strongly believe both games can, and will, continue to deliver and live on!

Sorry for jumping so much all over the place, but it has bothered me a little bit to see some of the comments thrown around, and I felt like addressing it and sharing my thoughts.

Thanks for the Ted talk.

Really big thanks for this, I was actually hoping for someone chiming in here and talking about this in the way you did! So really nice of you to take the time for your comment.

 

[zShades]

I will try to share some of my thoughts and reply to some other stuff thrown around here, it will probably be quite disorganized, so bare with me:

First of all, I don't know about all the other countries, but in Germany you are required by law to disclose sponsorships. If I was being paid to stream AoE4 and didn't disclose it, I'm actually commiting a fellany, so those are quite strong accusations thrown around. And every company I've ever worked with has demanded a disclosure when I advertise their product in some way, so I'd imagine it's required by law many other places, and wanted by both consumer and advertiser. I am not being paid to promote, say nice things about AoE4 or anything like that, nor do I think anyone else is. Then they wouldn't have liked whenever I've shared negative thoughts, something people seem to have missed out on.

Some people also seem set on the fact that it is a **** game, and since you have decided that, the only possible reason X or Y is playing the game, is because of your own made up reasons. A video game is like music taste, subjective, you will like some and not some others. Creating all these conspiracy theories and reasons for X and Y to be doing what he/she is doing, and not accepting the reason that person is giving, I find to be a bit offensive. In the end you can believe what you want of course, but going around making contradicting statements to what the very person is saying I find quite rude. I've watched a couple of AoE2 creators that have streamed AoE4 and said they've had fun playing it, and believe it or not, that can be the main reason they want to play it.

I also feel that people take praise for AoE4 as offense to AoE2. I don't see why that has to be connected? I've said many good things about AoE4 that I like, but I've also given it a lot of criticism on things it needs to improve, just like I do with AoE2. I've never seen anyone comment anything on when I'm sharing negative thoughts on AoE4, but for some reason when I'm giving it praise on other areas, some people act as if I'm betraying AoE2?

I am still having a ton of fun playing AoE4 and discovering a new, fresh game right now, especially it being the successor a the game where my name has been built, and it's fun to see the competition come in from a lot of different games. There is also the Genesis tournament finishing this weekend, and I have had fun playing the first AoE4 event too. It's nice to be able to have fun and stream another game while also getting a little bit of a break from AoE2. If this fun is gonna last 2 more weeks, 4 more months, or 7 more years, I cannot say, but that will depend on how much the devs are able to improve the game and how much competition is pursued within it.

The timing of KotD is a bit awkward. Noone could know how well AoE4 would do or if it was gonna be a really good game or not, and I don't think you can expect, in a streamer game such as AoE2, for people to just disregard AoE4 because of "loyalty". It is both an opportunity to gain exposure for your channels, but also explore a new, potentially fun game and get competitive in a new RTS, that may even be considered eSports at some point. Whether you're cynical and play it just because of it being AoE4 and opportunities that come along is a decision each creator and competitor has to make for themselves, but for my own case I can simply say that I'm having a ton of fun playing it, and that's the main reason I have streamed and played it a lot lately. If it brings in more exposure to any of my content, or if I improve at the game and can compete, then that is just a big plus.

Am I disrespecting Memb or AoE2 by playing AoE4 atm? I don't see why? KotD is obviously a big tournament, and I believe I'll be able to enter the tournament in top AoE2 shape. What more should I be expected to deliver for the tournament as a player? Is it my job to promote it on social media, stream and talk about it, otherwise? I don't believe so, but if I was asked to retweet a tweet or something, I've never had any issue with that. Or play a showmatch or anything of that kind. I think players/streamers in general always have been extremely helpful in promoting events without asking for anything in return, so I don't see why suddenly we're disrespecting an event just because we're not actively playing AoE2 or constantly talking about it at the moment? The timing of KotD is, as mentioned, awkward, and I don't think the responsibility is on the streamers within the community to make sure it's seen.

I do understand that a lot of AoE2 fans that don't like AoE4 is disappointed that a lot of players and streamers are giving it a go, but I think a lot of people aren't showing understanding from our perspective. The game is a fresh breath of air into our lives, it is nothing wrong with giving it a go, and enjoying it. Streamers and players that have made money from streaming or built their careers in AoE2 shouldn't be held captive to AoE2 because of that.

I also think you overestimate how much information we in GL are getting from Nili. Do you not know the guy? He gives admin wins against his teammates. We're not playing AoE4 because of some secret information Nili has given us, nor do I think we know more than other players in the scene. Usually the tournament hosts reaches out to us and lets us know in advance about dates and such if they want us to, not Nili. KotD, NAC, HC, Empire wars 2v2, Red Bull etc, if I've ever received early information there, it's usually directly through the host/staff of the event.

I will start playing AoE2 again after the Genesis tournament in order to get back into top shape for KotD. This AoE4 break has given me a good break from AoE2, and I'm starting to look forward to getting back into it and getting used to the AoE2 mechanics again. I think the same goes for a lot of other AoE2 profiles that have been giving AoE4 a go, they will focus on AoE2 again very soon.

Will I go back to AoE4 after Kotd or play AoE4 also during Kotd? I will probably mix in some AoE4 during my streams during KotD, yes. I will probably stream both games going forward. How my attention and prioritization will be I cannot say, that will depend on what events are coming and how much I'm enjoying either game. In my opinion both games can co-exist and both be successful.

AoE2 is my first child, but that doesn't mean that I cannot have a second child and love that one as well. Only the future can tell what will happen, but I strongly believe both games can, and will, continue to deliver and live on!

Sorry for jumping so much all over the place, but it has bothered me a little bit to see some of the comments thrown around, and I felt like addressing it and sharing my thoughts.

Thanks for the Ted talk.

Didnt know Viper could speak english, norwegian, german, some spanish and THE TRUTH

 

[Memeluke]

^ holy cringe

 

[Brlr716]

I will try to share some of my thoughts and reply to some other stuff thrown around here, it will probably be quite disorganized, so bare with me:

First of all, I don't know about all the other countries, but in Germany you are required by law to disclose sponsorships. If I was being paid to stream AoE4 and didn't disclose it, I'm actually commiting a fellany, so those are quite strong accusations thrown around. And every company I've ever worked with has demanded a disclosure when I advertise their product in some way, so I'd imagine it's required by law many other places, and wanted by both consumer and advertiser. I am not being paid to promote, say nice things about AoE4 or anything like that, nor do I think anyone else is. Then they wouldn't have liked whenever I've shared negative thoughts, something people seem to have missed out on.

Some people also seem set on the fact that it is a **** game, and since you have decided that, the only possible reason X or Y is playing the game, is because of your own made up reasons. A video game is like music taste, subjective, you will like some and not some others. Creating all these conspiracy theories and reasons for X and Y to be doing what he/she is doing, and not accepting the reason that person is giving, I find to be a bit offensive. In the end you can believe what you want of course, but going around making contradicting statements to what the very person is saying I find quite rude. I've watched a couple of AoE2 creators that have streamed AoE4 and said they've had fun playing it, and believe it or not, that can be the main reason they want to play it.

I also feel that people take praise for AoE4 as offense to AoE2. I don't see why that has to be connected? I've said many good things about AoE4 that I like, but I've also given it a lot of criticism on things it needs to improve, just like I do with AoE2. I've never seen anyone comment anything on when I'm sharing negative thoughts on AoE4, but for some reason when I'm giving it praise on other areas, some people act as if I'm betraying AoE2?

I am still having a ton of fun playing AoE4 and discovering a new, fresh game right now, especially it being the successor a the game where my name has been built, and it's fun to see the competition come in from a lot of different games. There is also the Genesis tournament finishing this weekend, and I have had fun playing the first AoE4 event too. It's nice to be able to have fun and stream another game while also getting a little bit of a break from AoE2. If this fun is gonna last 2 more weeks, 4 more months, or 7 more years, I cannot say, but that will depend on how much the devs are able to improve the game and how much competition is pursued within it.

The timing of KotD is a bit awkward. Noone could know how well AoE4 would do or if it was gonna be a really good game or not, and I don't think you can expect, in a streamer game such as AoE2, for people to just disregard AoE4 because of "loyalty". It is both an opportunity to gain exposure for your channels, but also explore a new, potentially fun game and get competitive in a new RTS, that may even be considered eSports at some point. Whether you're cynical and play it just because of it being AoE4 and opportunities that come along is a decision each creator and competitor has to make for themselves, but for my own case I can simply say that I'm having a ton of fun playing it, and that's the main reason I have streamed and played it a lot lately. If it brings in more exposure to any of my content, or if I improve at the game and can compete, then that is just a big plus.

Am I disrespecting Memb or AoE2 by playing AoE4 atm? I don't see why? KotD is obviously a big tournament, and I believe I'll be able to enter the tournament in top AoE2 shape. What more should I be expected to deliver for the tournament as a player? Is it my job to promote it on social media, stream and talk about it, otherwise? I don't believe so, but if I was asked to retweet a tweet or something, I've never had any issue with that. Or play a showmatch or anything of that kind. I think players/streamers in general always have been extremely helpful in promoting events without asking for anything in return, so I don't see why suddenly we're disrespecting an event just because we're not actively playing AoE2 or constantly talking about it at the moment? The timing of KotD is, as mentioned, awkward, and I don't think the responsibility is on the streamers within the community to make sure it's seen.

I do understand that a lot of AoE2 fans that don't like AoE4 is disappointed that a lot of players and streamers are giving it a go, but I think a lot of people aren't showing understanding from our perspective. The game is a fresh breath of air into our lives, it is nothing wrong with giving it a go, and enjoying it. Streamers and players that have made money from streaming or built their careers in AoE2 shouldn't be held captive to AoE2 because of that.

I also think you overestimate how much information we in GL are getting from Nili. Do you not know the guy? He gives admin wins against his teammates. We're not playing AoE4 because of some secret information Nili has given us, nor do I think we know more than other players in the scene. Usually the tournament hosts reaches out to us and lets us know in advance about dates and such if they want us to, not Nili. KotD, NAC, HC, Empire wars 2v2, Red Bull etc, if I've ever received early information there, it's usually directly through the host/staff of the event.

I will start playing AoE2 again after the Genesis tournament in order to get back into top shape for KotD. This AoE4 break has given me a good break from AoE2, and I'm starting to look forward to getting back into it and getting used to the AoE2 mechanics again. I think the same goes for a lot of other AoE2 profiles that have been giving AoE4 a go, they will focus on AoE2 again very soon.

Will I go back to AoE4 after Kotd or play AoE4 also during Kotd? I will probably mix in some AoE4 during my streams during KotD, yes. I will probably stream both games going forward. How my attention and prioritization will be I cannot say, that will depend on what events are coming and how much I'm enjoying either game. In my opinion both games can co-exist and both be successful.

AoE2 is my first child, but that doesn't mean that I cannot have a second child and love that one as well. Only the future can tell what will happen, but I strongly believe both games can, and will, continue to deliver and live on!

Sorry for jumping so much all over the place, but it has bothered me a little bit to see some of the comments thrown around, and I felt like addressing it and sharing my thoughts.

Thanks for the Ted talk.

Exactly, even Memb is casting AOE4 and why blame the players as well? I just don't get it and put so many obligations to players? In addition, KOTD will be fine because AGE2 fans are just there. People like me obviously wanna watch both tournaments. It is also possible that the new AGE4 fans from other backgrounds will be interested to watch AGE2 big tournament as well as they share some similarities. They can learn something from AGE2 (like balancing econ) if they are from SC2.

It is obvious that AOE2 is a better game now but honestly I'm happy to see the age of empires franchise thrive and have a chance to become the main game again. Just be a bit open-minded guys and AOE2 is so unique and won't be replaced.

 

[Rorarimbo]

I will try to share some of my thoughts and reply to some other stuff thrown around here, it will probably be quite disorganized, so bare with me:

First of all, I don't know about all the other countries, but in Germany you are required by law to disclose sponsorships. If I was being paid to stream AoE4 and didn't disclose it, I'm actually commiting a fellany, so those are quite strong accusations thrown around. And every company I've ever worked with has demanded a disclosure when I advertise their product in some way, so I'd imagine it's required by law many other places, and wanted by both consumer and advertiser. I am not being paid to promote, say nice things about AoE4 or anything like that, nor do I think anyone else is. Then they wouldn't have liked whenever I've shared negative thoughts, something people seem to have missed out on.

Some people also seem set on the fact that it is a **** game, and since you have decided that, the only possible reason X or Y is playing the game, is because of your own made up reasons. A video game is like music taste, subjective, you will like some and not some others. Creating all these conspiracy theories and reasons for X and Y to be doing what he/she is doing, and not accepting the reason that person is giving, I find to be a bit offensive. In the end you can believe what you want of course, but going around making contradicting statements to what the very person is saying I find quite rude. I've watched a couple of AoE2 creators that have streamed AoE4 and said they've had fun playing it, and believe it or not, that can be the main reason they want to play it.

I also feel that people take praise for AoE4 as offense to AoE2. I don't see why that has to be connected? I've said many good things about AoE4 that I like, but I've also given it a lot of criticism on things it needs to improve, just like I do with AoE2. I've never seen anyone comment anything on when I'm sharing negative thoughts on AoE4, but for some reason when I'm giving it praise on other areas, some people act as if I'm betraying AoE2?

I am still having a ton of fun playing AoE4 and discovering a new, fresh game right now, especially it being the successor a the game where my name has been built, and it's fun to see the competition come in from a lot of different games. There is also the Genesis tournament finishing this weekend, and I have had fun playing the first AoE4 event too. It's nice to be able to have fun and stream another game while also getting a little bit of a break from AoE2. If this fun is gonna last 2 more weeks, 4 more months, or 7 more years, I cannot say, but that will depend on how much the devs are able to improve the game and how much competition is pursued within it.

The timing of KotD is a bit awkward. Noone could know how well AoE4 would do or if it was gonna be a really good game or not, and I don't think you can expect, in a streamer game such as AoE2, for people to just disregard AoE4 because of "loyalty". It is both an opportunity to gain exposure for your channels, but also explore a new, potentially fun game and get competitive in a new RTS, that may even be considered eSports at some point. Whether you're cynical and play it just because of it being AoE4 and opportunities that come along is a decision each creator and competitor has to make for themselves, but for my own case I can simply say that I'm having a ton of fun playing it, and that's the main reason I have streamed and played it a lot lately. If it brings in more exposure to any of my content, or if I improve at the game and can compete, then that is just a big plus.

Am I disrespecting Memb or AoE2 by playing AoE4 atm? I don't see why? KotD is obviously a big tournament, and I believe I'll be able to enter the tournament in top AoE2 shape. What more should I be expected to deliver for the tournament as a player? Is it my job to promote it on social media, stream and talk about it, otherwise? I don't believe so, but if I was asked to retweet a tweet or something, I've never had any issue with that. Or play a showmatch or anything of that kind. I think players/streamers in general always have been extremely helpful in promoting events without asking for anything in return, so I don't see why suddenly we're disrespecting an event just because we're not actively playing AoE2 or constantly talking about it at the moment? The timing of KotD is, as mentioned, awkward, and I don't think the responsibility is on the streamers within the community to make sure it's seen.

I do understand that a lot of AoE2 fans that don't like AoE4 is disappointed that a lot of players and streamers are giving it a go, but I think a lot of people aren't showing understanding from our perspective. The game is a fresh breath of air into our lives, it is nothing wrong with giving it a go, and enjoying it. Streamers and players that have made money from streaming or built their careers in AoE2 shouldn't be held captive to AoE2 because of that.

I also think you overestimate how much information we in GL are getting from Nili. Do you not know the guy? He gives admin wins against his teammates. We're not playing AoE4 because of some secret information Nili has given us, nor do I think we know more than other players in the scene. Usually the tournament hosts reaches out to us and lets us know in advance about dates and such if they want us to, not Nili. KotD, NAC, HC, Empire wars 2v2, Red Bull etc, if I've ever received early information there, it's usually directly through the host/staff of the event.

I will start playing AoE2 again after the Genesis tournament in order to get back into top shape for KotD. This AoE4 break has given me a good break from AoE2, and I'm starting to look forward to getting back into it and getting used to the AoE2 mechanics again. I think the same goes for a lot of other AoE2 profiles that have been giving AoE4 a go, they will focus on AoE2 again very soon.

Will I go back to AoE4 after Kotd or play AoE4 also during Kotd? I will probably mix in some AoE4 during my streams during KotD, yes. I will probably stream both games going forward. How my attention and prioritization will be I cannot say, that will depend on what events are coming and how much I'm enjoying either game. In my opinion both games can co-exist and both be successful.

AoE2 is my first child, but that doesn't mean that I cannot have a second child and love that one as well. Only the future can tell what will happen, but I strongly believe both games can, and will, continue to deliver and live on!

Sorry for jumping so much all over the place, but it has bothered me a little bit to see some of the comments thrown around, and I felt like addressing it and sharing my thoughts.

Thanks for the Ted talk.

First of all thank You for the time spent to make this post.

I personally never thought players play AoE4 because they have been payed to do it. I can see enjoyment and the feel of challenge for many of you. I have also seen alot of viewers frustration and reaction and from day one the split we have in the comminity. Those who say AoE2 is now dead because AoE4 is so awesome and those who dislike AoE4 so much that they dont acknowledge its possitive features. Im also feeling a frustration from the players when they feel "tied to AoE2" or "held responsible" for enjoying AoE4.

I wasnt going to respond, but this last part is the reason I think might be useful for streamers to get to understand some of their viewers. You have become popular for playing and streaming AoE2 for several years. Your followers have always liked this content. It is fine on personal level for everyone to find smth else to do and enjoy (have passion about). Some of yout viewers will enjoy that but others obviously do not like this new content. It is normal. And what is also normal for them to get frustrated and complain. The problem is not when they complain but when they stop. This means they gave up and left.

It is like in real life when you have a partner who is no longer sure you are enough for them. They decide to try and enjoy smth else and maybe leave you completely or try to have you as a second option. Ofc they get some blame for betraying you. Ultimatelly they are free to do as they choose and enjoy as they want. It is unpleasant for everyone but this is how life works. We all face our difficult choices but it inormal we follow what we think is best for us. It justusually means ending a relationship.

We like it or not AoE2 and AoE4 are in direct competition when it comes to competative scene. Not only as different RTS games but competing for MS and other sponsors support. And it matters what direction the top players and influencers take. Perhaps if AoE4 is so enjoyable than AoE2 dynasty is indeed over. .

PS. nomatter what direction you chose from now one I am thankful to you for being our great champion and emmisary for AoE2 for so many years.

Good Luck Viper.

 

[Hunyadi_]

As always I think we'll go where the eyeballs go. If eyeballs wanna see AoE2, then AoE2 we will see. If eyeballs wanna see AoE4, then that it is.

It's not that complicated. As for myself I'm in camp AoE2 and probably always will be. And I know there are many others like me. AoE2 will survive, it has survived much much worse. This is merely a bump in the road.

 

[LePac]

Let the people vote (with their feet)

 

[LeoMontero]

aoe2 is older then 20 years, let it rest in peace. We have seen everything.

no

 

[Lord Bolton]

wow. diss all the streamers and community for selling out , accusations on streamers, etc and now when viper responds to their allegations as false , they suddenly start saying we never meant insults and say thank you for responding. never change aoezone.

 

[Influenza]

wow. diss all the streamers and community for selling out , accusations on streamers, etc and now when viper responds to their allegations as false , they suddenly start saying we never meant insults and say thank you for responding. never change aoezone.

believe it or not, aoezone is not a single entity, but rather a collection of individuals with competing thoughts and beliefs

 

[Progeusz]

wow. diss all the streamers and community for selling out , accusations on streamers, etc and now when viper responds to their allegations as false , they suddenly start saying we never meant insults and say thank you for responding. never change aoezone.

Do your parents know you're here, posting on a forum instead of studying for the test tomorrow?

 

[DerEsser]

I just want to throw in something that might happen in the near future:

TheViper, Hera and Kasva are owning the Genesis Tournament. Viewers unfamiliar with AoE2 might think "wow, look at these guys, why are they so strong?". And next they are interested in watching KotD4.


Might happen, might not happen. We don't know. But the last chapter of the AoE2 book has definitely not been written yet. There are yet so many unforeseeable twists to happen.

 

[Tempires]

I think most of the hate and toxicity comes from the fact that the first child has been kinda neglected by the teachers (devs), and I personally feel that you and other top aoe2 content creators should have done more to make sure the child wasn't neglected by teachers. Maybe it is not fair of me to have these expectations, but I just don't want this child with lots of potential to be sidelined because of incompetent teachers and shitty school administration.

how aoe2 is in last 1 month become more neglected than before though? November patch is coming just like nothing has happened. maybe for AOE:DE or AOM:EE

 

[z3us]

how aoe2 is in last 1 month become more neglected than before though? November patch is coming just like nothing has happened. maybe for AOE:DE or AOM:EE

2 years of neglecting TGs. Elo problem, smurf issues, pre-mades still persists. The changes in November patch are long long pending. No proper communication about anything. You must be blind ignore these issues or simply be a casual viewer.

 

[Potkeny]

You must be blind ignore these issues or simply be a casual viewer.

And are these issues more neglected than before aoe4 release? 'Cos it sounds like the neglecting didn't change, they were not addressed the same way, like Tempires said.

how aoe2 is in last 1 month become more neglected than before though?

 

[nevergone]

People play whatever they want. I don't see any problems on it. What shocked me is i turned on twitch yesterday and find there is no aoe2 stream. I feel that i am wrong to sponsor kotd4. Kind of disappoint by myself as a sponsor. I couldn't help thinking kotd4 will not be that competitive as it should be. Maybe i am wrong. But i think it that way.

 

[MembTV]

People play whatever they want. I don't see any problems on it. What shocked me is i turned on twitch yesterday and find there is no aoe2 stream. I feel that i am wrong to sponsor kotd4. Kind of disappoint by myself as a sponsor. I couldn't help thinking kotd4 will not be that competitive as it should be. Maybe i am wrong. But i think it that way.

Do not worry amigo, they will be in shape very fast after the genesis event, and they will dominate in KOTD4.

For those that dont know, this is TIM our dear Pinztec Sponsor.

KOTD4 will be sick and then people will see why AoE2DE been alive for 20 years and for how many years it will still be.

LETS GO!!!

 

[lecracheursagacite]

Do not worry amigo, they will be in shape very fast after the genesis event, and they will dominate in KOTD4.

For those that dont know, this is TIM our dear Pinztec Sponsor.

KOTD4 will be sick and then people will see why AoE2DE been alive for 20 years and for how many years it will still be.

LETS GO!!!

It will be interesting to see how people react to seeing DE again after all the attention that has been placed on AoE4. Should make it very easy to really notice the differences between the two games as it relates to competitive play.