SF - TheViper vs MbL

Unknownasdfasdfasdf1

Active Member
Jul 13, 2017
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#26
Probably not a very popular opinion, but IMO, if Viper reads out subscriptions and donations, spends all time talking and answering questions of chat such as 'what civ is the best for tati rush', going for 'mastapiece' strat, not using a re, and not taking a tournament seriously at all, I'd rather have him not participate at all.

One good example was when Viper paused in the middle of a game during a very intense moment to ask viewers if he is dropping any frames.

The above comments exactly show why that behavior ruins the immersion of tournaments for me. Opponents of Viper can't really win, they lose because viper 'wasn't playing seriously' or 'had a bad day'. I think it certainly would've been possible for MbL to win vs Viper anyway, but we never know for sure.

I think a good idea for future tournaments would be limiting the interaction streamers are allowed to have with their chat, even if it is less fun for Viper and other streamers. No interaction at all during games, or maybe a fixed 5 minute delay. If that results in Viper & other players not participating at all, then so be it.
 
Last edited:
Mar 10, 2018
11
10
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#27
Probably not a very popular opinion, but IMO, if Viper reads out subscriptions and donations, apend all time talking and answering questions of chat such as 'what civ is the best for tati rush', going for 'mastapiece' strat, not using a re, and not taking a tournament seriously at all, I'd rather have him not participate at all.

One good example was when Viper paused in the middle of a game during a very intense moment to ask viewers if he is dropping any frames.

The above comments exactly show why that behavior ruins the immersion of tournaments. Opponents of Viper can't really win, they lose because viper 'wasn't playing seriously' or 'had a bad day'. I think it certainly would've been possible for MbL to win vs Viper anyway, but we never know for sure.

I think a good idea for future tournaments would be limiting the interaction streamers are allowed to have with their chat, even if it is less fun for Viper and other streamers. No interaction at all during games, or maybe a fixed 5 minute delay. If that results in Viper & other players not participating at all, then so be it.
I think things like that should be up to the tournament organizers and can vary from tournament to tournament. If somene organizes a tournament wich he wants to be a 'tryhard' one then yes, things like enforcing stream delay etc. is probably a good idea - everyone knows that the host wants serious games and not trolish ones, the host could also set rules to warn/disqualify trolling players.
But if the organizer doesn't mind a litte bit of troll or less than 100% performance due to stream interaction thats perfectly fine, too.
- I like to watch both kind of games, maybe it should be defined a little bit more #clearly when a game should be serious and when it doesnt need to be.

So yea, maybe at the start of a tournament the host could state if trolling, non tryharding etc. is accepted or not, atm it is more defined by prize money than anything else.
 
Aug 28, 2013
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#28
I have always been curious about why would someone read the comments below if he doesnt want to be spoiled. True mistery for me.
because its usually/often the only place people post vod links.

doesn't help that when you click the thread it starts at newest comment...
 
May 29, 2017
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#29
Probably not a very popular opinion, but IMO, if Viper reads out subscriptions and donations, apend all time talking and answering questions of chat such as 'what civ is the best for tati rush', going for 'mastapiece' strat, not using a re, and not taking a tournament seriously at all, I'd rather have him not participate at all.

One good example was when Viper paused in the middle of a game during a very intense moment to ask viewers if he is dropping any frames.

The above comments exactly show why that behavior ruins the immersion of tournaments for me. Opponents of Viper can't really win, they lose because viper 'wasn't playing seriously' or 'had a bad day'. I think it certainly would've been possible for MbL to win vs Viper anyway, but we never know for sure.

I think a good idea for future tournaments would be limiting the interaction streamers are allowed to have with their chat, even if it is less fun for Viper and other streamers. No interaction at all during games, or maybe a fixed 5 minute delay. If that results in Viper & other players not participating at all, then so be it.
Congratulations to MBL for winning! ,

about Viper , if he wants to play troll mode or not, it's his problem, whoever qualifies could play this tournament, in any case, i dont understand why people are angry with that, he won the position to reach semifinals , playing seriously or not, if you dont like to see to Viper doing "troll", then i invite you to register in the tournament and eliminate it, so you will prevent the viper from "trolling" others players, but if u can't beat Viper even when he is playing "troll mode", then he still strong and he deserve the place even " trolling", he won the place, so he can play as he want and beyond what everyone thinks, there isnt reliable evidence about if viper was playing seriously or not, all hypotheses will be void as soon as the viper simply rejects those accusations and no one has proof. We have the bad habit of thinking that every time that the viper loses, it is because he made "troll", and in case he did, I ask again, what is the problem? he lost and he is not in the final because of this, he didnt hurt anyone. Stop criticizing players better than you , if it really bothers then u can try get 2.7k and beat him in the tournament, but if you cant then just try to be happy coz there are good players playing a tournament . This reminds me a lot of my country, where many criticize Messi 11111, the Best in the World criticized by those who can not even the best in their office or in their own home.
 

United StatesInfluenza

Two handed swordman
Jul 7, 2011
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#30
="___Black___, post: 586156, member: 72224"]Congratulations to MBL for winning! ,

about Viper , if he wants to play troll mode or not, it's his problem, whoever qualifies could play this tournament, in any case, i dont understand why people are angry with that, he won the position to reach semifinals , playing seriously or not, if you dont like to see to Viper doing "troll", then i invite you to register in the tournament and eliminate it, so you will prevent the viper from "trolling" others players, but if u can't beat Viper even when he is playing "troll mode", then he still strong and he deserve the place even " trolling", he won the place, so he can play as he want and beyond what everyone thinks, there isnt reliable evidence about if viper was playing seriously or not, all hypotheses will be void as soon as the viper simply rejects those accusations and no one has proof. We have the bad habit of thinking that every time that the viper loses, it is because he made "troll", and in case he did, I ask again, what is the problem? he lost and he is not in the final because of this, he didnt hurt anyone. Stop criticizing players better than you , if it really bothers then u can try get 2.7k and beat him in the tournament, but if you cant then just try to be happy coz there are good players playing a tournament . This reminds me a lot of my country, where many criticize Messi 11111, the Best in the World criticized by those who can not even the best in their office or in their own home.
Does Messi interact with the fans before or after scoring a goal?
 
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FranceTarsiz

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Feb 27, 2017
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#31
There is a difference between "trolling" and trying bold and/or risky strategies. Both strategies employed by Viper in the first two games could very well have worked but MbL simply played better in the end (game 2 players were still neck and neck towards the end with Viper even having a better economy than MbL). While he admitted himself maybe trying "non optimal" strategies, Viper played the games 100% and did not hand the victory to MbL on a silver plate; it's not like he threw the games on purpose

What would you have wanted him to do? Play standard meta - if there is such a thing in WK Huns war -, wall and turtle up like a maniac? Would that have made the games more interesting to you? I haven't finished watching the series but the first two games were both close and entertaining. Game 1 can show how to fight in feudal against a castle age opponent (even if Viper ultimately fell short) and game 2 was action packed from minute 10.

Both players should be given more credit. MbL for winning convincingly against the best player in the world, and Viper for putting up a great show.
Just because he is live commenting and seemingly having fun while playing the game doesn't mean he isn't 100% focused on winning (besides, he probably likes winning too much to throw games).
 

United StatesInfluenza

Two handed swordman
Jul 7, 2011
1,988
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#32
There is a difference between "trolling" and trying bold and/or risky strategies. Both strategies employed by Viper in the first two games could very well have worked but MbL simply played better in the end (game 2 players were still neck and neck towards the end with Viper even having a better economy than MbL). While he admitted himself maybe trying "non optimal" strategies, Viper played the games 100% and did not hand the victory to MbL on a silver plate; it's not like he threw the games on purpose

What would you have wanted him to do? Play standard meta - if there is such a thing in WK Huns war -, wall and turtle up like a maniac? Would that have made the games more interesting to you? I haven't finished watching the series but the first two games were both close and entertaining. Game 1 can show how to fight in feudal against a castle age opponent (even if Viper ultimately fell short) and game 2 was action packed from minute 10.

Both players should be given more credit. MbL for winning convincingly against the best player in the world, and Viper for putting up a great show.
Just because he is live commenting and seemingly having fun while playing the game doesn't mean he isn't 100% focused on winning (besides, he probably likes winning too much to throw games).
Viper can do whatever strategies he wants, but if he's going to pay more attention to the chat while playing in the semifinals of a tournament than what I do playing a 17xx nomad tg, then I think the complaints are justified
 

Aland Islandskw1k000000

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#33
Nobody who wants to avoid spoilers SHOULD. But many WOULD from time to time because we are not perfectly rational beings. Sometimes we just continue scrolling out of habit or we forgot for a moment that comments could contain spoilers. Isn't it nice when your fellow humans take that into consideration when posting? I agree there is no moral obligation for spoiler protection, but for many things, kindness is a good enough reason.
This obsession about spoilers is out of this world in aoc universe. Its like you turn on the news and why the heck they are talking about yesterday's football game which I have not watched.

Having thread titles without any spoilers should be good enough. If you happen to click and read through the thread then there is no right to complain. Anything beyond that is just pure entitlement.
 

Chilezuviss

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Mar 14, 2010
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#34
MBL was also streaming his POV and interacting with the chat, but of course because it's him in his case people consider it full tryhard I still don't get why, just blind viper fanboyism I guess...

Also did you all forget that MBL was the only one (with migraine and all) to take a series from viper on NAC?

Viper got outplayed again by MBL, that's final.
 

Switzerlandpumukel

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Dec 11, 2012
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#35
This obsession about spoilers is out of this world in aoc universe. Its like you turn on the news and why the heck they are talking about yesterday's football game which I have not watched.

Having thread titles without any spoilers should be good enough. If you happen to click and read through the thread then there is no right to complain. Anything beyond that is just pure entitlement.
Isn't the "aoc universe", especially when you look at AoEZone alone, also out of this world, kind of? A small community, gathered around a 20 years old game, generally consisting of mature and intelligent people who more or less know and respect each other (to the degree that is possible through an internet community). And aren't that good conditions for being a little bit more considerate than the rest of the world?

I'd like to set the following story against your "opening the news after football game" analogy: Imagine Jane comes home late from work, and as usual, she mindlessly takes a seat in the living room, where her family already is who just watched said football game. The family members know Jane would like to watch the recorded match tomorrow. Should they try not to talk about the result of the match (if they want to do so, they can ask Jane to leave) or should they tell Jane that it is a mistery to them how she dares coming into the living room if she doesn't want to have any spoilers?

As I said in my response to Nicov, I also think there is no right to complain in the sense of claiming to be morally wronged by people who spoil the result. But one is certainly entitled to ask for reconsideration, just the way I did with my reaction to Edie's post, who then made the winner's name disappear from the surface of his post.
 
Last edited:
Mar 16, 2018
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#36
Probably not a very popular opinion, but IMO, if Viper reads out subscriptions and donations, spends all time talking and answering questions of chat such as 'what civ is the best for tati rush', going for 'mastapiece' strat, not using a re, and not taking a tournament seriously at all, I'd rather have him not participate at all.

One good example was when Viper paused in the middle of a game during a very intense moment to ask viewers if he is dropping any frames.

The above comments exactly show why that behavior ruins the immersion of tournaments for me. Opponents of Viper can't really win, they lose because viper 'wasn't playing seriously' or 'had a bad day'. I think it certainly would've been possible for MbL to win vs Viper anyway, but we never know for sure.

I think a good idea for future tournaments would be limiting the interaction streamers are allowed to have with their chat, even if it is less fun for Viper and other streamers. No interaction at all during games, or maybe a fixed 5 minute delay. If that results in Viper & other players not participating at all, then so be it.
If u wanna check does mbl can win against viper put mbl against viper into draw of a tournament for seriously award. Last 1v1 cup viper won was ECL where mbl didnt play. There wasnt place to troll anybody so we could see what is going on with mbl against viper when viper want to play seriously. But sorry we didnt see it cuz mbl didnt play this setup. He is already joining tournament for 100 dollars to show up how everybody how great he is. Im waiting for showmatch between viper amd Mbl with pure award like 1000 dollars for winner. I can pick 500 dollars viper could win it so Easy.
 

Netherlandsnimanoe

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Jan 15, 2014
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#38
If u wanna check does mbl can win against viper put mbl against viper into draw of a tournament for seriously award. Last 1v1 cup viper won was ECL where mbl didnt play. There wasnt place to troll anybody so we could see what is going on with mbl against viper when viper want to play seriously. But sorry we didnt see it cuz mbl didnt play this setup. He is already joining tournament for 100 dollars to show up how everybody how great he is. Im waiting for showmatch between viper amd Mbl with pure award like 1000 dollars for winner. I can pick 500 dollars viper could win it so Easy.
Remember last time Viper played serious against MbL in NAC?
 

BrazilNigelSlack

Two handed swordman
Jul 5, 2010
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#39
Guys, i think Viper is in his right, i'm too a bit upset, and would've enjoyed a 3-2 score for any of those guys, both playing their full putential... But as some guys have pointed out, the games (the first 2 especially) were indeed more enjoyable.
Despite not being the usual meta, i think in both games Viper would have great chances of winning vs a 2k2 player, The Full Feudal, with Stone control, denying Enemy a boom approach was good, but could've been a killer move if it was gold instead of the stone denied... maybe at some point Viper realized that it was more worthy to just mass few ranged units and go Castle.. but kept Feudal, was his call (a bad one) but could still work...
The 2nd game, Drush and fw archers have been used by him lots of times in Huns Wars, this time MbL was aware, defended well moving his eco back.. and was able to counter atack... Going tarkan's might've been a mistake, but still worked (because of tarkan extra-armor) when denying MbL 4th TC... i think they can be an option for Ara, if Viper was stone-walled, that could've worked just fine...
As for the 3rd game, i think he got a bit more serious, could've changed earlier for Ranged Units, but couln't consider it a troll game...

As mentioned before, the strats were not optimal, but just a small number of players could've defended so well as MbL did. That said,for the other player it'll be either a good scenario since due his skill + Viper bad decisions he was able to win.. or might be a small upset, since he could've beated "full potential" Viper but the snake didn't allowed him to have this chance...
 

GermanyFlow

Known Member
Mar 21, 2017
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#41
Mbl never won any seriously tournament (does he won any?). Viper won everyone he just wanted to win. Thats the different thing and i still not sure why i have to explain that.
Cause your opinion is not only wrong but disrespectful to everyone who is competing with Viper.
 
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Netherlandsnimanoe

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Jan 15, 2014
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#42
Mbl never won any seriously tournament (does he won any?). Viper won everyone he just wanted to win. Thats the different thing and i still not sure why i have to explain that.
Nobody is denying that Viper is a better player overall than MbL, but that doesn't mean that you have to make up excuses once Viper loses a series.
 
Mar 16, 2018
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#43
Nobody is denying that Viper is a better player overall than MbL, but that doesn't mean that you have to make up excuses once Viper loses a series.
Ye viper ia winning every kind of biggest cup and that not mean he is the best Player. I never played against theviper so that not mean i couldnt beat him. Uck logic
 
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NorwayMoonspring

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#45
The victory mbl got over viper in NAC felt way better than this one. I am saying that as a viper fan boy. It was just weird to watch, viper saying he needs to wall this, but doesnt. Viper saying he needs to re, doesnt, etc. Im fine with him trolling through tournaments, but when he is facing the 5 other people in the world that have a small chance of winning in a legit way, I would prefer to see real games. Just in case Viper loses so people cant say he gave it away.

Maybe I took this tournament too seriously. Idk.
 

Netherlandsnimanoe

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#46
Ye viper ia winning every kind of biggest cup and that not mean he is the best Player. I never played against theviper so that not mean i couldnt beat him. Uck logic
Did you read my post? Nobody is denying that Viper is the best player at the moment. But that doesn't mean that he wins every single game and if he loses that you have to make excuses.
 
Mar 16, 2018
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#47
Did you read my post? Nobody is denying that Viper is the best player at the moment. But that doesn't mean that he wins every single game and if he loses that you have to make excuses.
He wins every kind of game if he just want to win it. The question is when viper wamt to win amd ahen he dont want.
 

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