RESET civ picks for KOTD2 quarterfinals

SpainIRC_tomate

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#1
please please for the love of baby jesus we are still on time if we want to have a better tournament lets have a better quarterfinals, right now this not looking good, we all know some civs are better than others, balancing is hard, but hurts me imagine 3-0 with x3 meso pick vs not so good tier civ favoring the higher seed player

sad
#not like this

sorry english
 

GermanyAkeNo

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Then all the drafts the players did in the earlier rounds, where they maybe risked it and picked Tier 2 civs instead of Tier 1 civs would be heavily punished. You cannot change a rule like this in the middle of a tournament it would be even worse.
 
Jan 13, 2019
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#3
It's sad for tatoh, and mbl, but akeno is right, you must follow the rules or you will lose all the strategy you put together, the biggest problem was the brackets that left lierrey and viper with relatively easy players and tatoh had to face stark + Hera, and Mbl passed by Miguel and Nicov having to spend good civs if they wanted to go to the quarterfinals
 

Mexicomalamadre

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#4
The civ ban in earlier rounds sounded good on theory but now that we think about it more it gives unfair advantage to some players.

Some players like Viper or Lierey had it easy against Black or Barles, some players like Tatoh or MBL had to face much stronger oponents. So top seed players save the better civs -> more advantage. And neither Viper or Lierey need this advantage, nor they did anything meaningful to get it in the last year, they just placed well on kotd.

Not a great idea to be honest. But it was a nice try to spice things up. Hopefully it doesnt happen again.
 
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SpainIRC_tomate

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Then all the drafts the players did in the earlier rounds, where they maybe risked it and picked Tier 2 civs instead of Tier 1 civs would be heavily punished. You cannot change a rule like this in the middle of a tournament it would be even worse.
true
thankfully im no kotd2 admin, im just an exalted fan thats enjoying the tournament so far and wants too see great matchups on the quarterfinals
 

Netherlandssnellefiets

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#6
I agree that this should be reconsidered for the next tournament. Both the seeding method and the drift rules are in big favour of the top players. Might be good for the matchup in the final but not for earlier rounds.

Still the tournament is awesome!
 
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NetherlandsJaimeAOC

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It would be unfair to change it now after players already lost because of saving the better civs for later rounds. Yes some players had a easier route and thus were able to save their better civs but what do you want? Viper Larry R1?
 

Aland Islandskw1k000000

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#8
Every player knew this in advance and had all the time to plan accordingly. No point in changing rule mid tournament like this.
 

Switzerlandchrummi

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#10
I dont like the rule either, but you cant just change it in the middle of the tournament, that would be really unfair. Not only for players who planned ahead and tried to save civs and qualified for the third round, but especially for the players who tried to save some civs and got eliminated in round 1 or 2 because of a civ disadvantage.
 

NetherlandsBurandal

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Aug 11, 2015
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#11
I totally agree with resetting the civs.
for example:
Tatoh and Mbl are easy top 5 now, and mbl is playing better then ever. Lierrey AND Viper don't play often, have huge breaks from playing, and now can defeat their opponent with civ wins, and you can argue if they are really better then Tatoh or Mbl right now. So instead of having the better players win with equal civs, viper and lierrey can civ win the series.
I don't mind seeing Lierrey and Viper win it, really! But let it be on fair grounds..
 
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Unknownorangereaper

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Aug 21, 2014
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#12
Maybe a mid-way compromise.
Make Quater-finals, Bo7.
5 games of 7 follow the existing civ-draft rule, remaining 2 games are pick-free.

BTW, I for one like mirror games. I just feel it eliminates any kind of civ advantage (e.g. Hera vs Tatoh, Aztecs vs Slavs. The mobility of hussars won the game IMO).
 

Nepalarchxeon

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#13
The settings from its inception seemed to make the match ups for the highest seeds easier in the next rounds (while giving the lowest seeds opportunities for upsets) and make the match up between middle seeds more strategy oriented and competitive. i.e. if seeds truly represented the player level. Its really good that the settings are reset after round 3.
 

Netherlandsnimanoe

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Jan 15, 2014
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#14
Even though I highly questioned the use of this civ picking system before the tournament started, I don't think it's fair to change the rules now, we just have to live with some more one-sided games this round.
And it was a fun experiment, just not very fair and instead of giving less one-sided matches, it might even have achieved the opposite, which is a shame.
 

Uruguay_antena3

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Mar 20, 2018
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#15
The theme of the civilizations as presented in the tournament would be correct if the tournament had had a random draw, the fact of facing the number 1 with the 32 already from the beginning gives advantage to who is selected as number 1, as well as for the number 2, both take the first two crosses more accessible.
 

India_CsK_Bluewolf

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#16
When i see this thread i feel like political diversion deployed by politicians of country 11. Just to make people go out of focus from drama like River getting banned / nerfing towers. Since we all know its so childish to ask for resetting civs :P
 

SpainMembTV

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#18
i have seen franks winning indians, i have seen sarrac winning cuz a better strategy, we wanted to make something diferent and we did, is perfect? ofc is not.

Do the higher seed some advatanges cuz they face "lower" rated players, they do, that is one of the advantages to be higher seed. Did they take some risk because others pick all tier 1 civiliz, they did too.

Liereyyy played Villese who reached over 2.5k playing arabia, and liereyyy took risks with suposed worst civiliz, and he sucess.

Can be harder for some players who face eachother now, sure it is, but that is the advantage to be seeded higher and to take some risks. We wanted make something that make alot strategies.

Viper has alot strong civiliz free sure, and tatoh got left berbers, britons, burmese, ethiopians, franks, huns, incas, indiasn japanese, koreans (always danger), malay, mongols, spanish, and vikings.

I put those civiliz since vikings won slavs, alot people pick as top tier civiliz - MbL took nicov with vik
Franks and indians, i said example before.
Malay always dangerous.
Incas always dangerous, and alot etc etc etc.

Then i check mbl civiliz, ofc he probably prefer has the "top tier 1" civiliz, but he still has, britons, burmese, byzantines, celts, ethiopians, huns, incas, japanese, korea, magyaras, malay, malians, mongols, and spanish

Maybe they are not best civiliz, but with good strategies and proper game play, those civiliz are not strong enough to beat meso civiliz or slavs? because is basically the suposed issue here, ofc is posible, is harder? probably it make all interesting? for me it is, i trust in the players in quarterfinals since they are great.

The settings were done with a purpose to make all interesting, there is 0 system perfect, but what is imposible is to change now, and ofc won´t happen, if there is ever a KOTD3, me and chrazini are taking notes of everything, and definitly we will try to make it better.

Enjoy.
 
Oct 6, 2017
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#19
When asking to change the rules, don't think of only the players who have made it through (either by playing top tier civs or despite saving them). Also think of Hera or Daut or others who possibly did not draft specific civs to save it for future rounds & that decision affected their result in some way or other. It will be very unfair for them to change the rules now.
 

Finlandbuhanisson

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May 29, 2015
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#20
Changing rules mid-tournament is basically the worst thing one can do, and only justified if all players (both those still in, and those already out) agree with it.

Also, you still learn more from the experience if you just see it through and look what actually happens, instead of speculating.
 

UnknownSuperskinnyBLS

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Dec 30, 2016
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#21
The civ ban in earlier rounds sounded good on theory but now that we think about it more it gives unfair advantage to some players.

Some players like Viper or Lierey had it easy against Black or Barles, some players like Tatoh or MBL had to face much stronger oponents. So top seed players save the better civs -> more advantage. And neither Viper or Lierey need this advantage, nor they did anything meaningful to get it in the last year, they just placed well on kotd.

Not a great idea to be honest. But it was a nice try to spice things up. Hopefully it doesnt happen again.
They faced easier oponents thanks to their status they earned. It's all deserved. That's how seeding works.
 

Finlandbuhanisson

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May 29, 2015
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#22
They faced easier oponents thanks to their status they earned. It's all deserved. That's how seeding works.
They deserve their easier opponents, but when the actual game of aoe2 begins and you see those 3 villagers and a scout, whoever that easier opponent is, he deserves a fair chance of dethroning the higher seed. If you design the rules so that someone like TaToH will basically always have a civ disadvantage, it is really not fair for those mid-seed guys, and the higher seeds will turn into a self-fulfilling prophecy.

After all, it is not just the #1 and #2 who have worked to earn their high seeds. TaToH and Hera are #8 and #9 seeds, but they would probably win kotd2 easier if they had bl4cks bracket (#30 seed), because then they could at least be sure to face the toughest guy with equal civs. Thats clearly not how seeding is supposed to work.

And yes, Viper and Liereyy still have to take some small risks to preserve the good civs, but in reality the skill difference between #1 and #30 is clearly so big that those risks are very very small.
 
Last edited:
Mar 28, 2018
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#23
And yes, Viper and Liereyy still have to take some small risks to preserve the good civs, but in reality the skill difference between #1 and #30 is clearly so big that those risks are very very small.
Thats a good point, actually.
This civ draft system could be great in a smaller tournament with a smaller skill range, as it could really make the draft strategy more important. in kotd the highest seeds just have too much of an advantage
 

Netherlandssnellefiets

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#24
TaToH and Hera are #8 and #9 seeds, but they would probably win kotd2 easier if they had bl4cks bracket (#30 seed), because then they could at least be sure to face the toughest guy with equal civs. Thats clearly not how seeding is supposed to work.
This explains very well why the system needs to be reconsidered for the next tournament. And yes, probably the admins didn't think it would turn out to work this way.
 

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