Red Bull Wololo Announcement

Red Bull is excited to announce a new step forward in Age of Empires 2 esports, an event played entirely on the new mode Empire Wars. Check out an Empire Wars overview here

Featuring the top 8 players from Hidden Cup 3, TheViper, Hera, TaToH, dogao, Liereyy, DauT, Mr_Yo & MbL, and 8 more qualifiers, 4 from each of the two qualifying weekends, the Main Event will be an action-packed weekend of high-level innovative gameplay.
How will the pros adapt to this new game mode, what special tricks will they bring with them? Find out at https://www.twitch.tv/redbull for the Main Event. All of the qualifiers are open streaming so check them out at your local caster!

The Main Event stream will be casted by Nili_AoE, T90Official, & Dave with ZeroEmpires as the stream host.

Players interesting in playing in the qualifiers need to sign up at the Toornament pages (Qualifier 1, Qualifier 2) & join the Discord channel for easy communication with other players & Admins. Players will need to check-in during the hour before the tournament starts on Saturday to confirm their participation.

Timeframe​

Spoiler: Qualifiers

Qualifier 1: Saturday 18th - Sunday 19th April
Saturday:
Round 1 (256): Saturday 13:00GMT Bo1
Round 2 (128): Saturday 14:00GMT Bo1
Round 3 (64): Saturday 15:00GMT Bo3
Round 4 (32): Saturday 17:00GMT Bo5
Round 5 (16): Saturday 19:00GMT Bo5
Sunday: starting 13:00GMT
Round 6 Match 1 Bo7
Round 6 Match 2 Bo7
Round 6 Match 3 Bo7
Round 6 Match 4 Bo7
(Exact order of the games may vary to allow for player timezones)

Qualifier 2: Saturday 25th - Sunday 26th April
Saturday:
Round 1 (256): Saturday 13:00GMT Bo1
Round 2 (128): Saturday 14:00GMT Bo1
Round 3 (64): Saturday 15:00GMT Bo3
Round 4 (32): Saturday 17:00GMT Bo5
Round 5 (16): Saturday 19:00GMT Bo5
Sunday: starting 13:00GMT
Round 6 Match 1 Bo7
Round 6 Match 2 Bo7
Round 6 Match 3 Bo7
Round 6 Match 4 Bo7
(Exact order of the games may vary to allow for player timezones)

Main Event:
Thursday 30th April 13:00GMT: Round of 16
Friday 01st May 13:00GMT: Round of 16
Saturday 02nd May 13:00GMT: Quarterfinals
Sunday 03rd May 13:00GMT: Semifinals & Grand Final

Prizepool €20,000​

Sponsored by Red Bull.

See the Rules & Settings for total breakdown.

 

I watched Mr. Yo's stream last night and all he did at that time was basically doing the scheduling for all the chinese players and explaining the settings, maps, and civ ban/picks to them non stop. People often forget that these chinese players literally knows zero english and must always rely on someone else to translate things for them. For a tournament like this with brand new settings and little time to prepare, i wouldn't be surprised if they knew nothing about the settings other than what yo told them in one or two pms.

I do understand that the language barrier can be a problem for understanding certain rules, however this "problem" could been easily spotted if he prepared a bit better. In empire wars gold is one of the first resources you pull vills from or add depending on what strategy you go for. When I was training with AJ the same happend to him on el dorado and he saw it after 10 seconds. I think many didn't prepare well which is understandable since the tournament was announced on short notice.

 

I can see there are two sides but think of it this way:
1) Tim was 5 vils down with no gold
vs
2) Tim would not be surprised by the strategy of Spring in the restarted game

There should be no debate that case 1 is huge disadvantage. However, case 2 is debatable as we don't know if Tim already knew about the strategy in first game itself, as Inca vil rush is very common strategy.

Considering this, I think Admin decision was hard but the right one in the circumstances.

 

I can see there are two sides but think of it this way:
1) Tim was 5 vils down with no gold
vs
2) Tim would not be surprised by the strategy of Spring in the restarted game

There should be no debate that case 1 is huge disadvantage. However, case 2 is debatable as we don't know if Tim already knew about the strategy in first game itself, as Inca vil rush is very common strategy.

Considering this, I think Admin decision was hard but the right one in the circumstances.

Feels like a biased way of summarizing the situation...

What about:

1) Spring did nothing wrong and still the Admin decision fell into his disfavor;

2) Tim did do something wrong - it was on him to notice the bugged map - and still the Admin decision was in his favor.

Not saying I disagree with the decision though, I think the fact Robo tried to contact both players early on changes things.
Just a tough situation alltogether.

 

Feels like a biased way of summarizing the situation...

What about:

1) Spring did nothing wrong and still the Admin decision fell into his disfavor;

2) Tim did do something wrong - it was on him to notice the bugged map - and still the Admin decision was in his favor.

Not saying I disagree with the decision though, I think the fact Robo tried to contact both players early on changes things.
Just a tough situation alltogether.

The rule says you "CAN" call a re before 'x' time if your map is bugged. It does not say you "MUST". I agree the rule is ambiguous in this regard but there is a reason why Admins are there. If it was all up to the players, it may not be a fair match every time. The basis of ruling should be in first place to avoid heavily advantageous situation due to map/other situations not in players control; and then see if someone did something wrong or not. I think the advantage situation takes precedence in this case. Anyway this is my point of view which might not be perfect.

 

I don't think there should be any debate about the admins right to restart a game. If he wouldn't have that right, there could be situations where one player has a massive disadvantage without having a chance of knowing.
If i understand correctly robo tried to inform the players earlier, but both of them were unreachable, which is understandable. But the moment the admin tries to inform a player about a restart, the game should be deemed restarted.

if it takes the players the whole game to realize that the game wouldn't count, that's unfortunate but shouldn't make the game count.
But lastly, and that's important, the admin needs to make sure that the game is restarted even if the player with the disadvantage wins. Otherwise the player in disadvantage could potentially just play it out, knowing it would be restarted if he loses.

 

I don't think there should be any debate about the admins right to restart a game. If he wouldn't have that right, there could be situations where one player has a massive disadvantage without having a chance of knowing.
If i understand correctly robo tried to inform the players earlier, but both of them were unreachable, which is understandable. But the moment the admin tries to inform a player about a restart, the game should be deemed restarted.

if it takes the players the whole game to realize that the game wouldn't count, that's unfortunate but shouldn't make the game count.
But lastly, and that's important, the admin needs to make sure that the game is restarted even if the player with the disadvantage wins. Otherwise the player in disadvantage could potentially just play it out, knowing it would be restarted if he loses.

Agreed. But there could be another situation where the player in disadvantageous position due to one aspect of the map knows it but feels he can still win because of other factors like skill, situation in the game, civ etc. Whether it is OK to allow play to continue (without chance to restart) is debatable.

I think the fairest way to resolve is to void the game whatever the result if there is a bug. This can be a pain sometimes as one player might have surprise strategy prepared (especially disadvantageous player if he thinks the surprise is bigger than the bugged map disadvantage & would like to play on); but that is a necessary evil to rule the situation fairly.

 

To give a little perspective, yesterday, the to date most prestigious online chess tourney ever started. Prize pool is ten times of Rec Bull Wololo for less players (may be of importance or not, I'm not sure about that). In the decider game between Carlsen and Nakamura, there was also a controversial admin action. It caused some drama, but Nakamura, the affected player, accepted it and is now hailed for his sportsmanship (which was seen as his weak point before).

This is just something that happens in online tourneys, even more when he shedule is tight (it is for both).

 

sorry for off topic but i am really curious about what kind of admin decisions are needed in chess? i guess he didnt have a bugged map or a trapped queen 11

 

It was a problem with time assignment in a deciding game.

Score was 2-2 that lead to an Armageddon game were white has to win but should have more time. Black has less but win if draw. But here white had less time and still had to win 111

Very surprised it has not be played again though.

 

It was a problem with time assignment in a deciding game.

Score was 2-2 that lead to an Armageddon game were white has to win but should have more time. Black has less but win if draw. But here white had less time and still had to win 111

Very surprised it has not be played again though.

Actually it only showed as less time for Nakamura for the spectators, the players themselves had the right time setup

 

It was a problem with time assignment in a deciding game.

Score was 2-2 that lead to an Armageddon game were white has to win but should have more time. Black has less but win if draw. But here white had less time and still had to win 111

Very surprised it has not be played again though.

The time was correct for the players, the discrepancy was only for spectators (also for the arbiter). That's why the game was not replayed.

 

Do we have an offical number of how many games reached the time limit yesterday? the last number i heard was only one game

 

Do we have an offical number of how many games reached the time limit yesterday? the last number i heard was only one game

At least 2 afaik, one in the ro256 between unseeded players and themax vs stark

 

sO 2 OUT OF

At least 2 afaik, one in the ro256 between unseeded players and themax vs stark

So, 2 out of 248 games is 0.8%.

This can be interpreted in 2 ways

• It is insignificant enough that having the limit will have little effect on game results
• It is insignificant enough that not having it will have little effect on the schedule

People can choose their view accordingly ;-)

 

• It is insignificant enough that not having it will have little effect on the schedule

That could be wrong I would say.
Imagine a single series/game in first round going like 3-4 hours, all games against future opponents would be heavily delayed.
In Theory your potential opponent for round 5 could already be decided, while you're still playing round 1.

Which wouldn't even be too unlikely with a mass-qualifier, where basically evryone can participate.

 

This was 2 out of 248 in a bracket where nearly every single matchup was a massive stomp in one direction. I don't see how you can take this number and use it to claim that time limit is insignificant.

For the record, I'm not saying that it is. It's just that we probably won't see until the main event ends.

 

That could be wrong I would say.
Imagine a single series/game in first round going like 3-4 hours, all games against future opponents would be heavily delayed.
In Theory your potential opponent for round 5 could already be decided, while you're still playing round 1.

Which wouldn't even be too unlikely with a mass-qualifier, where basically evryone can participate.

I agree with you that the effect would be greater on more people in this scenario (most of the fans, the sponsor, etc. While the effect of the other scenario would only possibly effect one player who may lose when they otherwise could have won.

I am firmly in the camp of having the time limit.

 

Robo has provided clear evidence that he noticed BEFORE 2 minutes the map was bugged and a restart needed to be called, but they couldn't get in touch with either player. Surely the conversation now changes to: "How can we contact players during games?" to call admin RE?

 

Fully justified decision by Robo. Missing 5 vills and ONLY gold on El Dorado forces admins to take some action and they did it in time. I truly support admins in that regard.

 

Robo has provided clear evidence that he noticed BEFORE 2 minutes the map was bugged and a restart needed to be called, but they couldn't get in touch with either player. Surely the conversation now changes to: "How can we contact players during games?" to call admin RE?

I think this is exactly the point. How can the admins do any more than they already did to stop the game and call the re before 2 mins? Unless you have an admin in every game there's no way to immediately contact players or pause the game itself. You could request that players set steam settings to show notifications, but that also has drawbacks for obvious reasons.
It's not so simple.

 

You could request that players set steam settings to show notifications, but that also has drawbacks for obvious reasons.

For so many games maybe not the best option, but players playing against each other could go together to a specific discord channel (before game) with both players muted and only tournament admins can join the channel.
Since both are only muted they can still hear a robo who comes in and screams "admin restart", without anyone else having the option to distract the players.

 

You could request that players set steam settings to show notifications, but that also has drawbacks for obvious reasons.
It's not so simple.

That's not gonna work. Yesterday I had many different people messaging me while I was playing the tournament til I got annoyed and switched to offline mode on steam friends. It's not like in voobly where admins can message you no matter what.

 

Just put them muted into a discord channel that admins can join like on every LAN event. but in a qualifier you cant expect that kind of effort for fairness. In that case it is in the resposibility of the players to call an admin.
You cant call an admin re for bugged map after more than 2 minutes for good reason. The player might notice immediately and be silent about it in hopes of getting a free try. I have seen the EU LCS (league of legends) rule it the same way when a team played on after a bug occured and only after they noticed it was to their disadvantage they wanted to restart the game. You cant allow the players to see how it goes for them and then decide.

 

That's not gonna work. Yesterday I had many different people messaging me while I was playing the tournament til I got annoyed and switched to offline mode on steam friends. It's not like in voobly where admins can message you no matter what.

If you are on do not disturb you don't get notifications.

 

At least twice in HC3 players didn't notice the fact that they were missing the entirety of their berries until 16+ minutes. When you're playing, often you aren't thinking/concentrating on your map

That's a different story in my opinion. Not spotting the missing resources I can understand. However for these settings, its the missing 5 villager, no gold income, houses, etc. I can't comprehend not spotting that. I mightn't notice I was missing a gold, but I would certainly realize I wasn't close to being housed, or I wasn't generating gold or I had much less pop than I should.