Rage Forest 4 - Discussion

[Villiams]

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Discussion / Q&A / Feedback​

Please use this thread to discuss the tournament, post any questions or concerns you may have and also to provide us feedback on aspects that can be improved.

As the tournament organizers, we will listen to and consider every single piece of feedback that is presented, no matter how big or small and we're always open to suggestions to making it bigger and better than ever.

 

[willdbeast]

Not at all a fan of the new draft format, seems like it's heavily watering down the best part of the tourney and making it far less unique and exciting, for me at least. Very sad for me to see a rage forest announcement and have my first reaction be anything other than hype :/

Also why is the draft pool capped at 100? Seems silly to me that a high level BF player potentially can't be in the pool if they don't meet top 100 in the seeding criteria and I'm not really sure who benefits from the pool being limited (other than people who meet the cut-off but don't really play BF who have less competition). I also can't find the seeding criteria anywhere but the settings are split across 3 pages so maybe I missed it.

 

[Utariel]

I share the same worries as willdbeast above me, I am super hyped for this but at first impact I don't think I like the pool cap and the removal of the player tiers.

Regarding the pool cap this risks to cut out experienced BF players that don't play ladder (i'm not sure but i think last year some unranked players were drafted, or were in the pool anyway)

The removal of player tier can cause really unbalanced teams, and it removes the incentive for the players to play and watch lots of RF games to scout and find hidden gems less known in the community.

Now i think that there is probably a reason for this changes, and i hope those could be shared with the community.

 

[kalpit00]

That's sad player tiers and the whole selecting your team based on tiers in the opening ceremony was hella fun to watch. I can see how it can be a long and painful task, and also unfair at times because how accurate are the tiers anyways. are they based on player skill/elo/prior bf experience? much questions, but whatever the final decision may come, I hope to see balanced teams. The beauty of Rage Forest has always been the fact that a 1800 player would match up vs the best of the best and yet somehow equalize the playing field due to the map and different strategical possibilites in 4v4 BF

 

[King_Marv]

That's sad player tiers and the whole selecting your team based on tiers in the opening ceremony was hella fun to watch. I can see how it can be a long and painful task, and also unfair at times because how accurate are the tiers anyways. are they based on player skill/elo/prior bf experience? much questions, but whatever the final decision may come, I hope to see balanced teams. The beauty of Rage Forest has always been the fact that a 1800 player would match up vs the best of the best and yet somehow equalize the playing field due to the map and different strategical possibilites in 4v4 BF

This is still the case because a 1800 can still be in the top100 list if he matches the criteria

 

[Nick_]

Experienced strong BF players will make the 100 player list, nobody is going to miss out because they don't play 1v1s. If they have the level and knowledge (decided collectively and objectively without bias by a group of strong bf players/captains in coordination with villiams) they will be in the list of eligible players. This will eliminate a large contingent of players but the chances that these players would be picked outside of forcing a tier 4 system are very slim.

Tier removal - This was decided to increase overall level of play in the tournament. Many teams in previous editions had strong tier 3 second pick players that did not get to play in the tournaments because you had to use a tier 4 player.
Also although you are slightly correct in that tiers potentially made the teams fairer (some captains still made really poor picks). Those captains that choose to do the correct homework and therefore make better draft decisions (admittedly the 'BF' player captains have a distinct advantage here) deserve to have the better teams.

The draft itself is still entirely the same, except that captains will pick from the whole list of available players and so you can still see some picks that will appear wild but are actually very good.

 

[Modri]

I'll try to answer some of those questions myself.

TIERS

Despite investing countless hours every tournament into trying to make the best tiers we could, we still ended up doing some obvious mistakes, usually placing too much emphasis on elo or on past performance on BF (over of the current performance). That hurt some captains and their team's success. Additionally it could get awkward if for instance we'd now have 2k6 rated players in Tier 3 and some basically unranked "17xx" or "18xx" in Tier 2. You'd probably be asking more questions then. We also don't want to deter players from signing up by being afraid they'll end up in too low or (in some cases) too high of a tier. If a captain has trust in their abilities and they're available, let him draft them regardless or where they may have ended up on the official rankings. Next reason for it is to stop doing injustice to 2nd picks in Tier 3 who weren't allowed to play over Tier 4 even though they were supposed to be better players. It's frustrating that improving from Tier 4 to Tier 3 would usually decrease your playing time. Having no tiers should therefore increase the overall level of gameplay by allowing best 4 players of each team to play at the same time. And finally, there's now less confusion with scheduling and making the line-ups for games: any 4 players can play any game.


SIZE CAP

Rage Forest tournaments have reached levels of competitiveness where a less assertive (or not as motivated) captain shouldn't have to feel any pressure to draft a lower elo friend or countryman, whether it's for the memes or as an act of kindness. It hurts their teams' performance in the tournament and we want all the teams to be as strong as possible. That is also why we removed the tiers and changed it to 5-player teams (it was 6 players per team in first 3 tournaments). We're doing many captains a favor by setting it up this way. 64 players will be drafted this time from a pool of 100 players which will absolutely include all the BF specialists that could possibly have a chance at contributing in a tournament like this. We won't miss any hidden gems, you need not worry about that, the final pool of available players will be very carefully thought out by RF community.

 

[Utariel]

Your explanations more than clarified any doubt in my mind and i thank you for that. I'm even more hyped right now, let's go! Looking forward for the drafting day!

 

[chavster]

I think the change happened to stop Ganji picking Nick & Roggy but I'm not hopeful

 

[willdbeast]

This is still the case because a 1800 can still be in the top100 list if he matches the criteria

what criteria? cannot find any mention of it anywhere, or do you mean having a good PC and internet criteria?

 

[Villiams]

what criteria? cannot find any mention of it anywhere, or do you mean having a good PC and internet criteria?

Significant high-level BF experience is required to maximize your chances of getting drafted, regardless of your individual ELO

 

[AxleHogenshmogen]

Memb gets drafted or riot.

 

[ninja14]

Memb gets drafted or riot.

No chance Memb gets drafted, he doesn't play BF off late

 

[Cuth]

The draft system is a thing of beauty. Really enjoying this.

 

[Shakuni]

Suggestion for future RF tournaments: This may sound wild and ambitious, but I'd love to see some player retentions across RF seasons, mid tournament transfers, player auctions and the introduction of some dummy RF currency to facilitate the auctions and transfers.

Here's a simple model:
1. Player registration: After the list of registered players is locked, the RF overseers will set a base price for each player based on their experience.
2. Auction format: Round-robin format, with every team taking turns to bid on a player. RF overseers will determine the set budget cap in "dummy RF currency" for all teams before the auction; budget cap cannot be exceeded. Bidding starts at base price.
3. RF captains rights: RF captains/teams will have the right to retain players from the previous season by matching the highest bid at the end of the player's bidding round.

If any captains have any strong preferences with regards to their teammates, then this mechanism could aid them up to a certain limit. And as a fan/viewer there is a certain appeal to having an attachment to a team/player combo over multiple seasons which is currently missing because players get shuffled every time.