poZ_edie vs Marillion

[Carlos Ferdinand]

@ Falahk:

The reason why 8th wonder is not smurfing is that admins know who is the guy that signed up, and can assign him the proper seeding. If someone is not aware of what happens in aoc world it is not the players fault, but atleast the admins should be aware- with a proper sign up with a proper aoczone nick (or atleast a mention of who exactly he is in the sign up post).

Carlos do you even remember which nick Yellow signed up with? no cheating with double checking the sign up thread and such

anyway I think this comes down to once definition of smurfing, to me its the use of a lesser known secoundary account (and so on for those that have more then 2 acc...)

Yellow's aoczone nick is 29 with some underscore, and has a top player badge on it.

 

[_Andrew]

TheViper stops playing for a while, starts a smurf, plays 100 random games, mostly BF.
In the process he get's his rate up to 1900 only, because he isn't really putting any effort in, mostly plays random teamgames, doesn't shy away from doing exotic stuff and isn't training much.
If you want to seed his nick now, it's of no use to know that he is TheViper. You would just need to watch his last 100 recs to get everything that needs to be known. He should be seeded like any other random 1900.

That's your logic. Makes no sense to me. Nothing more to say.

And your logic makes zero sense to me but I at least gave it enough credence to offer a valid response.

Anyways, you're completely skewing the true issue by offering up an extreme example which doesn't relate at all to what happened here. Dziam hasn't been a top player or even close to it in at least 5-6 years... he didn't play BF games for the past few months because he was plotting to use it as an alias to get in a major 1v1 tournament... he played those games because that's the player he is now.. a 19xx BF player who still has some experience on other maps apparently. There was no intentional misleading going on here or a misrepresentation of the player's true skills... and that's the main difference between your bizarre example and what really happened.

Nothing more to say.

 

[swissboyy]

@ _Andrew
I never suggested that Dziam had any bad intentions, nor that he was using the account to hide anything.
Maybe I wasn't clear enough, maybe you should re-read my posts and the example that was given?

I was trying to state that - for me - there's more to a players current value than his rating and some random games he played in the near past. You disagree with that. That is fine and your choice.
I wrote a simple and short reply because for me there's no point fighting over opinions, not because I was trying to put you down or your point of view had no value to me.

Sorry if I caused you any trouble. Have a nice day.

 

[_Andrew]

OK, fair enough. Like I said earlier I think there's a couple rationale ways to look at this issue, and I do see what you're saying, we just have a different perspective on it which is completely fine. Sorry if I mistook your original post to be a bit more abrasive than it actually was.

To be honest, though, I'm exhausted from discussing it. Just gonna wait for the admin decision now and see what happens!

 

[Falahk]

Yellow's aoczone nick is 29 with some underscore, and has a top player badge on it.

I ment which voobly account he will be playing on during the tourny, not aoczone acc (that one i know and as far as I know he only smurf on voobly not on aoczone forums), sorry for not being more clear on that

(I have already forgotten which name he will go under in the bracket dispite reading it in the sign up thread ops: , and as such assumed I might not be the only one)

 

[CondoM]

TheViper stops playing for a while, starts a smurf, plays 100 random games, mostly BF.
In the process he get's his rate up to 1900 only, because he isn't really putting any effort in, mostly plays random teamgames, doesn't shy away from doing exotic stuff and isn't training much.
If you want to seed his nick now, it's of no use to know that he is TheViper. You would just need to watch his last 100 recs to get everything that needs to be known. He should be seeded like any other random 1900.

That's your logic. Makes no sense to me. Nothing more to say.

We aren't talking about viper. We're talking about Dziam. A former 2200 guy, not a very top player. At his best, he was not much better than Edith is now. He's not the same player anymore, not at the same level and his style will be totally different. He doesn't even identify as Dziam anymore.

It's like somebody who gets a sex change. If a guy becomes a woman, they should be known as and treated as a woman. Dziam was a man. Marillion is a woman. Edith got beaten by a girl.

Lets leave it at that.

 

[Carlos Ferdinand]

Yellow's aoczone nick is 29 with some underscore, and has a top player badge on it.

I ment which voobly account he will be playing on during the tourny, not aoczone acc (that one i know and as far as I know he only smurf on voobly not on aoczone forums), sorry for not being more clear on that

(I have already forgotten which name he will go under in the bracket dispite reading it in the sign up thread ops: , and as such assumed I might not be the only one)

did you even read my last post?? I said, wonder entering with no_re_i_go_eat is not smurfing and same goes for yellow, for the same reasons. So, what if you cant remember the name byheart? Infact I dont either, it was something VNS_th... but those who are playing vs him will know it, as well as the fact that seedings are properly done.

 

[_Jago_]

It's like somebody who gets a sex change. If a guy becomes a woman, they should be known as and treated as a woman. Dziam was a man. Marillion is a woman. Edith got beaten by a girl.
Lets leave it at that.

That analogy...
gg no re wp

 

[Falahk]

it was something VNS_th... but those who are playing vs him will know it, as well as the fact that seedings are properly done.

yes but they will probably need to double check with the sign up thread :lol: which would not have been the case if yellow played as yellow

ideally everybody would just use there main account for tournaments and we would not need define what smurfing exactly is, ether that or smurfing needs to be better clarified in the ruleset (seeing that its not explained at all right now which could mean that what I regard as smurfing could be smurfing just as much as what you regard as smurfing)

 

[Jbmass]

VNS_thuongthoi I think

 

[Carlos Ferdinand]

To be honest, apart from the seeding I dont get what the fuss is about.

If someone sees "29" "Vietnam", "top player(my ass)" scheduling vs you and dont know it is yellow, that SB deserves to be grassed.

 

[noleafclover]

17th page..
Dziam look what you have done! 11

I won't read everything.. some action has been taken?

 

[Sylve]

nothing, just 17 pages of useless posts

 

[babew]

good points made by both sides
im curious how admins gonna decide... they probably consult it with both players privately...

 

[USC_kiky]

I think at least admins can ask all 64 players advancing to the 2nd round to PM their main IDs and the IP addresses to prevent further smurfing in the tournament.

 

[Zoso]

TheViper stops playing for a while, starts a smurf, plays 100 random games, mostly BF.
In the process he get's his rate up to 1900 only, because he isn't really putting any effort in, mostly plays random teamgames, doesn't shy away from doing exotic stuff and isn't training much.
If you want to seed his nick now, it's of no use to know that he is TheViper. You would just need to watch his last 100 recs to get everything that needs to be known. He should be seeded like any other random 1900.

That's your logic. Makes no sense to me. Nothing more to say.

We aren't talking about viper. We're talking about Dziam. A former 2200 guy, not a very top player. At his best, he was not much better than Edith is now. He's not the same player anymore, not at the same level and his style will be totally different. He doesn't even identify as Dziam anymore.

It's like somebody who gets a sex change. If a guy becomes a woman, they should be known as and treated as a woman. Dziam was a man. Marillion is a woman. Edith got beaten by a girl.

Lets leave it at that.

but if you **** her, wouldn't you like to know that i was a man before?

 

[magnata]

This reminds Chris (newborn) in WCL 7.

 

[Pierel le Hardi]

I think the smurfing was unfair for Edie for three reason (maybe more) :

1) Edie shouldn't have met such a player as Dziam due to his 2k player status. It brokes the seeds.

2) By smurfing, Dziam, intentionnaly or not, had an advantage against Edie. He knew his opponent while Edie couldn't figure out who he was and prepare for him. Knowing your opponent is a huge advantage, especially when you have time to study him and prepare your game. For exemple, Dziam probably chose migration because he knew Edie is not really good at water maps.

3)If he would have known is opponent, Edie would have enterred the game with a different spirit.

"Smurfing and account sharing is not allowed. Any discovery of the mentioned will be severely punished."
I think smurfing is forbidden, especially for the reasons seen above. If it's not smurfing, i don't see what is smurfing oO.

Anyway, i hope the admins will take a fair decision, at least the fairest possible decision and the tourney will continue without any other problems of the sort.

 

[pokerface]

:D

17 pages in round 1 ftw
i couldnt believe in first time
but its funny


go go edie

 

[_JoHnNy_]

Lol just replay the goddamn thing

 

[jeyraul]

what if Marillion never accepted here he was dzriamk? what could anyone do here.?

We knew who he was before he confirmed it himself. We have our ways of investigating ^^

I m not trying to discourage the efforts of admins but if so called ways of investigating was used before seeding might helped us to avoid such situation.

 

[whack]

Following the rules would avoid such a situation.

 

[9mil]

So having read most of these posts i only have 1 thing to say: DZIAM ROX

Also, this shits gettin ridiculous, the signups didn't ask for a resume and work history for all former aoc nicks... So many players wanna talk nonsense ab older tops not being able to cut it in this age of aoc, dziam is evidence against that

 

[_AnThony_]

"Edie didn't lose because Dziam used an unknown nick, he lost because Dziam is the better player. It's as simple as that and people should stop making up excuses for Edie."

totally aggre.

the only explanation for this is the folowing "real 1850 > fake 2k ", and "Marillon" is not a smurf account because it has more than 150 games, if dzriam had tried to enter with your real account would not have been able to enter "is simple", and its rated in this time, is the one with this account because he has not played with another account, dzriam now is "185 +" no more.

wp dzriam, we want to see in the next round, knowing you're not going to win the tournament xD.

 

[El_4to_Reich]

I think Edie's reaction is perfectly understandable.... he hasn't acted in a poor way about this he just wanted the issue brought to the table and I don't blame him given how much time and energy he put into training for this tournament...

Main issue here is the lack of clarity in the rules. If there was a clearer definition as to what constitutes a "smurf" I don't think we'd even be having this debate now.. But as to that I don't think what Dziam did should even be against the rules or prohibited in the future and that's because I don't personally believe Dziam gained any unfair advantage by playing on his Marillion nick rather than his famous one, given how its been so long since he last played and like bigboned said Edie probably knew more about the player "Marillion" than he did about "Dziam." Still, though, if a rule was in place beforehand that a player had to play on his most famous nickname ever no matter what... I wouldn't argue because it's a firm rule that's in place and that's that. Unfortunately we don't have that here.

That's just my two cents, though.. still an Edie fan through and through, that's just where I stand on this issue.

i always thought smurfing is to play with a new nick hiding ur real rating,in this case dziam wasnt smurfing.i think almost all of us had thougth the same till viper wrote the real definition
p.d. sorry my english sux but take the idea