I think it is a good time to discuss new civilizations now that everyone, including me had time to mess around with them in ranked
Disclaimer: All thoughts are based on 1v1
Burgundians:
Arabia - Biggest surprise to me by far, Burgundians do not appear to be as strong as initially expected. With the nerf to palisade walls, Arabia has been forced into a lot more aggressive play on this patch, this severely hurts Burgundians for several reasons:
Early eco upgrades get punished - Very straight forward, you cannot afford to get double bit axe in dark age/bow saw in feudal age without setting yourself behind in military, which can easily be punished by more experienced players. In an ideal world, Burgundians would aim to either FC, or to be stuck in long feudal wars with advantage of bow saw, the problem is neither of those are realistic in current meta-play. They lack of any real eco bonuses is really visible in feudal age, where they can easily be abused by more aggressive civs like Bulgarians, Britons, Mayans etc.
Castle age UU - Now this is Burgundian strength, their UU is arguably the strongest castle age unit in the game, the problem is: With no eco bonuses, and with requirements of a Castle Burgundians are doomed to always be behind in Eco, therefore being forced into doing significant damage with their UU to get themselves into a favourable position. Going equally is also not an option, as their imperial transition from UU is very awkward, as the unit falls off heavily in Imperial age due to a significant lack of Pierce armor in imperial.
Castle age Cavalier - Another option that is unique to Burgundians. Cavaliers can easily run over the map and establish map control, however, the usual disadvantage of cav civs remain: It is extremely taxing on economy and can still be countered by strong archer civ (See Britons, Mayans), other cavarly civilizations with eco bonuses (see: Franks). Or even monk civs. The benefit of castle age cavalier is that it provides a very smooth Imperial age transition with absurdly cheap paladin upgrade, however, lack of bloodlines really shines the longer the game proceeds into post-imp.
Arena - Not much of a surprise, Arena is where Burgundians can truly shine: Early eco upgrades are not punished, therefore Burgundians can gain significant eco lead over majority of civs. Light cav upgrade being almost free also makes them extremely strong as establishing map control and collecting relics. Their post imp transition with HC + BBC, farms generating gold, extra food from relics also makes them a formidable opponent late game. Additional options of UU, fast imp pushes with early strong eco makes them ideal for some real clonwery on Arena. Despite all of this, I'd hesitate to put them anywhere higher than top 5, as other arena civs, especially Britons and Aztecs seem to maintain an upper hand by being able to fight them off in both castle age and imperial age.
Sicilians
Arabia - From first glance, everyone tried the Donjon rush, and everyone found no success with it. Donjons feel extremely vulnerable to vil rushes, as their 2x2 foundation makes them in particular tricky to defend against. In addition, their UU being weaker (more expensive) than M@A gives them significant disadvantage as M@A became the standard Arabia play over past months. With no clear eco bonuses besides their pseudo frank farm-enhancer also makes them by far not strongest in feudal age fights.
Castle age: This is where problems for Sicilians really pile up: With a completely useless UU in castle age, a very lackluster stable Sicilians are almost always forced into Generic xbows. Overall embracing a very defensive playstyle and trying to surive until happier times in Imperial age. Donjons provide quite useful addition to this defensive game style, being stronger than towers they can safely rely on them to get them through castle age.
Imperial age: Besides generic Arbalest, most Sicilians will aim to go into the unusual lovechild of Teutonic Knight and Huskarl in their Elite UU. A very hard to counter unit, who further benefits from the civ bonus of taking -50% damage from unique counters. Their instant powerspike with their unique technology that even most fertile people on the planet would be jealous of allows them to summon 50 UU out of thin air, further allowing them to Deus Vult all slower civilizations in a heart beat.
Arena - Definitely does not feel like the strongest civilization on this particular map. The first instinct of Donjon trush falls flat even harder than on arabia, as more expensive Donjon allows opponents much more time to get to castle age and siege them down. In the worst case scenario, opponent can respond with his own cheaper towers and secure their base. In castle age Sicilians are particularly underwhelming, as fighting for relics can be a real struggle and it's not uncommon for Sicilian player to be behind in relics, which is detrimental in Arena. Their imperial age, while being reasonably strong, can hardly compare to other civilizations that either have way stronger units (Which includes over half of civilizations), or have way better eco and can kill Sicilians before they can raise their Deus Vult armies to the battle.
Sicilians overall appear to be a lot stronger on Nomad type of maps, especially with their villagers buildings town centers and castles so fast it feels like cocaine suddenly became legal, and forcing Spanish villagers into counseling for depression. Sicilians also appear relative strong in maps including water, however, I do not have the authority to speak on them as I am a honker and water makes me feel dizzy.
Overall: Im genuinely impressed with the Devs, the civilizations definitely do not appear pay-to-win, and have their weakness. Perhaps minor tweaks are still necessary, but the outlook is significantly better than on the first day of the patch.
What are your thoughts guys, girls, and of course, Deathcounter?
Disclaimer: All thoughts are based on 1v1
Burgundians:
Arabia - Biggest surprise to me by far, Burgundians do not appear to be as strong as initially expected. With the nerf to palisade walls, Arabia has been forced into a lot more aggressive play on this patch, this severely hurts Burgundians for several reasons:
Early eco upgrades get punished - Very straight forward, you cannot afford to get double bit axe in dark age/bow saw in feudal age without setting yourself behind in military, which can easily be punished by more experienced players. In an ideal world, Burgundians would aim to either FC, or to be stuck in long feudal wars with advantage of bow saw, the problem is neither of those are realistic in current meta-play. They lack of any real eco bonuses is really visible in feudal age, where they can easily be abused by more aggressive civs like Bulgarians, Britons, Mayans etc.
Castle age UU - Now this is Burgundian strength, their UU is arguably the strongest castle age unit in the game, the problem is: With no eco bonuses, and with requirements of a Castle Burgundians are doomed to always be behind in Eco, therefore being forced into doing significant damage with their UU to get themselves into a favourable position. Going equally is also not an option, as their imperial transition from UU is very awkward, as the unit falls off heavily in Imperial age due to a significant lack of Pierce armor in imperial.
Castle age Cavalier - Another option that is unique to Burgundians. Cavaliers can easily run over the map and establish map control, however, the usual disadvantage of cav civs remain: It is extremely taxing on economy and can still be countered by strong archer civ (See Britons, Mayans), other cavarly civilizations with eco bonuses (see: Franks). Or even monk civs. The benefit of castle age cavalier is that it provides a very smooth Imperial age transition with absurdly cheap paladin upgrade, however, lack of bloodlines really shines the longer the game proceeds into post-imp.
Arena - Not much of a surprise, Arena is where Burgundians can truly shine: Early eco upgrades are not punished, therefore Burgundians can gain significant eco lead over majority of civs. Light cav upgrade being almost free also makes them extremely strong as establishing map control and collecting relics. Their post imp transition with HC + BBC, farms generating gold, extra food from relics also makes them a formidable opponent late game. Additional options of UU, fast imp pushes with early strong eco makes them ideal for some real clonwery on Arena. Despite all of this, I'd hesitate to put them anywhere higher than top 5, as other arena civs, especially Britons and Aztecs seem to maintain an upper hand by being able to fight them off in both castle age and imperial age.
Sicilians
Arabia - From first glance, everyone tried the Donjon rush, and everyone found no success with it. Donjons feel extremely vulnerable to vil rushes, as their 2x2 foundation makes them in particular tricky to defend against. In addition, their UU being weaker (more expensive) than M@A gives them significant disadvantage as M@A became the standard Arabia play over past months. With no clear eco bonuses besides their pseudo frank farm-enhancer also makes them by far not strongest in feudal age fights.
Castle age: This is where problems for Sicilians really pile up: With a completely useless UU in castle age, a very lackluster stable Sicilians are almost always forced into Generic xbows. Overall embracing a very defensive playstyle and trying to surive until happier times in Imperial age. Donjons provide quite useful addition to this defensive game style, being stronger than towers they can safely rely on them to get them through castle age.
Imperial age: Besides generic Arbalest, most Sicilians will aim to go into the unusual lovechild of Teutonic Knight and Huskarl in their Elite UU. A very hard to counter unit, who further benefits from the civ bonus of taking -50% damage from unique counters. Their instant powerspike with their unique technology that even most fertile people on the planet would be jealous of allows them to summon 50 UU out of thin air, further allowing them to Deus Vult all slower civilizations in a heart beat.
Arena - Definitely does not feel like the strongest civilization on this particular map. The first instinct of Donjon trush falls flat even harder than on arabia, as more expensive Donjon allows opponents much more time to get to castle age and siege them down. In the worst case scenario, opponent can respond with his own cheaper towers and secure their base. In castle age Sicilians are particularly underwhelming, as fighting for relics can be a real struggle and it's not uncommon for Sicilian player to be behind in relics, which is detrimental in Arena. Their imperial age, while being reasonably strong, can hardly compare to other civilizations that either have way stronger units (Which includes over half of civilizations), or have way better eco and can kill Sicilians before they can raise their Deus Vult armies to the battle.
Sicilians overall appear to be a lot stronger on Nomad type of maps, especially with their villagers buildings town centers and castles so fast it feels like cocaine suddenly became legal, and forcing Spanish villagers into counseling for depression. Sicilians also appear relative strong in maps including water, however, I do not have the authority to speak on them as I am a honker and water makes me feel dizzy.
Overall: Im genuinely impressed with the Devs, the civilizations definitely do not appear pay-to-win, and have their weakness. Perhaps minor tweaks are still necessary, but the outlook is significantly better than on the first day of the patch.
What are your thoughts guys, girls, and of course, Deathcounter?