AOE-II Palisade wall scouting - bug or feature?

[mamo139]

As per title and pool,
do you consider the possibility of scouting through the fog of war by mean of attempting to build a palisade or any other building as a bug or as a feature?

 

[_Greenwolf]

we should know opponent is collecting stone or gold, its used usually
not a bug imo
or we place those behind the wood to see archers coming
to locate the wolves movement

 

[xuki]

It's a bug. The thing when you can see deaf wolf/chopped tree in the fog is also a bug.

 

[mamo139]

It's a bug

That is what I think as well. Fog of war is meant to hide enemy activities. It does not make sense to be able to check the enemy in this way.

However the survey it is telling us that most people do not consider this a bug, and I would love to understand why. How can this be considered a feature?

A feature is something logical that you want to be in a game (for instance archers targeting ram thus wasting arrows it is not a bug, it is a behavior coming from game rules... villagers loosing resources when sent to collect new resources is a game choice, thus a feature... but this one does not look like a feature)

PS: having learned how to exploit a bug in your favor, should not transform a bug in a feature.

 

[rmcoo]

It's a bug

That is what I think as well. Fog of war is meant to hide enemy activities. It does not make sense to be able to check the enemy in this way.

However the survey it is telling us that most people do not consider this a bug, and I would love to understand why. How can this be considered a feature?

A feature is something logical that you want to be in a game (for instance archers targeting ram thus wasting arrows it is not a bug, it is a behavior coming from game rules... villagers loosing resources when sent to collect new resources is a game choice, thus a feature... but this one does not look like a feature)

PS: having learned how to exploit a bug in your favor, should not transform a bug in a feature.

Its easy to understand your opinion that it's a bug because you wrote it first, the thing is it doesnt break the game and both players can do it equally (and everyone above 1600 does it..). If you look it this way stealing boar is bug and this is feature, cause this can be done by both players, and luring boar usually only by one, since of bad boar placements etc..

 

[xuki]

If it's a known bug, obviously any player can use it. You shouldn't be able to see anything in the fog, because it's in the fog. For example, a gold/stone pile that has been consumed completely doesn't disappear in the fog. That's the correct behaviour. Stealing boar is not a bug, because the boar will chase anything that hits it, it's logical. See stuff in the fog is not logical.

 

[rmcoo]

If it's a known bug, obviously any player can use it. You shouldn't be able to see anything in the fog, because it's in the fog. For example, a gold/stone pile that has been consumed completely doesn't disappear in the fog. That's the correct behaviour. Stealing boar is not a bug, because the boar will chase anything that hits it, it's logical. See stuff in the fog is not logical.

You dont search logical and illogical things in the game, also the boar stealing or even luring was never intended, so it cant be feature it must be bug, same as other million things in the game.. which turned out to be features.. Palisade wall scouting is one of those things.

 

[_Greenwolf]

If you look it this way stealing boar is bug .

111 best

 

[xuki]

Nope, some illogical things are ok in game context, some are not. For example, mangonel moving by itself, sure. Seeing some stuff in the fog (chopped tree, dead wolf) while you can't see other stuff (enemy units) is wrong.

Boar luring was never intended

I'm not sure what are you smoking. Boar stealing is just boar luring from a very far distance, nothing wrong there.

 

[BuzZ_Quiller]

Obviously a bug. There is a reason FOW and LOS exists in the game. That it is commonly used does not mean its not a bug lol, it just means a lot of people exploit it.

 

[rmcoo]

Nope, some illogical things are ok in game context, some are not. For example, mangonel moving by itself, sure. Seeing some stuff in the fog (chopped tree, dead wolf) while you can't see other stuff (enemy units) is wrong.

Boar luring was never intended

I'm not sure what are you smoking. Boar stealing is just boar luring from a very far distance, nothing wrong there.

Boar luring as a feature that you could use vil, hit two times, and lure it to tc, or same way with scout was nerfed intended and even say by game creators, if you are trying to find any way to insult me cause you are so butthurt atleast do some research.

 

[xuki]

I'm not trying to insult anyone. That aside, even if boar luring with scout is a bug (I still do not agree, but let's say it is), that has nothing to do with seeing in the fog and palisade scouting.

 

[nimanoe]

I'm not trying to insult anyone. That aside, even if boar luring with scout is a bug (I still do not agree, but let's say it is), that has nothing to do with seeing in the fog and palisade scouting.

I think wat rmcoo is trying to say is that it was intended that the villagers would walk to the boar and eat it at it's position instead of having one villager lure the boar to the tc to eat it under the tc.

 

[Sky95]

as it was allready that way in 1.0a and 1.0b and the creators knew it... why wouldn't they fix it, when they updated to 1.0c?

 

[Darknight2186]

In my opinion, and I think many would agree, you should not be able to see anything in the fog of war beyond what you saw when you explored that area previously. Fog of war is not a strictly AOC feature, as many other RTS games have this as well, and on those games it acts the same way. It takes a level of skill to be able to scout correctly and see what your opponent does and I feel that the palisade trick is a cheap way to get around this.

Using palisades to see in the fog of war is something that most people, after becoming more experienced with the game, are aware of and use to their advantage. This, however, does not make it a 'feature' of the game just because most pros and experienced players use it. To me it is a bug being exploited to give you an advantage over your opponent.

However, if I select a palisade to build and hold it over an area in the fog of war, and it's showing me that I can't build there, that is a feature of the game. I've seen people use this to see if someone has villagers on a gold / stone plot. This knowledge also gives the player an advantage over their opponent, but is this considered a bug? I'd say no, it is not. You're not actually able to 'see' what is there, but rather making an educated guess. This I believe is merely exploiting a feature of the game for an unintended purpose. I personally don't use this because I think it's another cheap way to avoid proper scouting, but my moral high ground on the matter doesn't make it a bug. This part might have been a little off topic, but I thought it needed to be said.

TL;DR: Putting a palisade plot down and actually seeing units in fog of war to me is a bug. Using a palisade to see if something is there isn't because you don't actually see the unit / building.

 

[addstrike]

In my opinion, and I think many would agree, you should not be able to see anything in the fog of war beyond what you saw when you explored that area previously. Fog of war is not a strictly AOC feature, as many other RTS games have this as well, and on those games it acts the same way. It takes a level of skill to be able to scout correctly and see what your opponent does and I feel that the palisade trick is a cheap way to get around this.

Using palisades to see in the fog of war is something that most people, after becoming more experienced with the game, are aware of and use to their advantage. This, however, does not make it a 'feature' of the game just because most pros and experienced players use it. To me it is a bug being exploited to give you an advantage over your opponent.

However, if I select a palisade to build and hold it over an area in the fog of war, and it's showing me that I can't build there, that is a feature of the game. I've seen people use this to see if someone has villagers on a gold / stone plot. This knowledge also gives the player an advantage over their opponent, but is this considered a bug? I'd say no, it is not. You're not actually able to 'see' what is there, but rather making an educated guess. This I believe is merely exploiting a feature of the game for an unintended purpose. I personally don't use this because I think it's another cheap way to avoid proper scouting, but my moral high ground on the matter doesn't make it a bug. This part might have been a little off topic, but I thought it needed to be said.

TL;DR: Putting a palisade plot down and actually seeing units in fog of war to me is a bug. Using a palisade to see if something is there isn't because you don't actually see the unit / building.

Imo, you pay for the former one. True, it's only temproary and only 5 wood per piece but if you plot down 5-6 during dark age thats gonna take a tiny toll on your eco. I get the fact that it may technically be considered a bug, but I think its fine as it is.

 

[Shmolagin]

Using palisade walls to scout is obviously a bug but at this point it is more like a feature. Pretty much everyone knows about it and uses it. Since everyone can use it an equal amount there's no reason to remove it. Farm/palisade scanning is incredibly useful.

 

[xuki]

as it was allready that way in 1.0a and 1.0b and the creators knew it... why wouldn't they fix it, when they updated to 1.0c?

Not all the bugs can be fixed (easily). Some has legitimate uses, for example the bug where Yellow built 4 palisades around his vil and repaired the watch tower from 2 tiles away, that's in the code to repair moving unit (mangonel/treb/galley).

 

[mentalist]

This is the kind of thing that would be very nice to have fixed in another iteration of user patch!

 

[Fall]

Well I very much doubt that it was intended, but I think it has developed into a feature and due to its widespread use and acceptance by most players I hope that it will remain so! I'm sure that many of the more advanced features of certain types of patrol were not intended either, but they are widely used now and should be left alone.

 

[Influenza]

I was thinking about this the other day. While I don't really consider it a bug, I think the game would be better if you had to do actual scouting to know what your enemy was doing...

 

[PerFusioN]

Cmon, don't even think to change this cause I really need this to prevent fwds. Thanks

 

[rmcoo]

Cmon, don't even think to change this cause I really need this to prevent fwds. Thanks

i would understand if you would've said trush, but will you just spam palisades all over the map scouting for fwd instead of just moving scout?

 

[i_no_english]

Initially a bug, but has been around for too long and might be considered feature now. Don't change it.

 

[_NeverGiveUp_]

Initially a bug, but has been around for too long and might be considered feature now. Don't change it.

I voted for 'bug' cause that's what it is, but I think it's ok to use it..everybody does