Move militia to the feudal age and men at arms to castle. Remove walls entirely. Make scouts great again.
According to who? Whining? It's common sense discussion because of how ridiculous low-effort it is to continue to dumb down the game by rewarding aggressive play while constantly making defensive play unfeasible. Instead of a balanced game you have the grating one-sided tilt towards aggressive play-meta.
Walling is a risk/reward strategy.
You invest idle time in building, resource cost in walling, potentially even repairing. People act like walling is some cost-free thing that has no investment/risk associated with it, and just assume their 3 militia or 3-4 m@a should just win them the game.
It's also not guaranteed you'll finish walling, will be able to defend when attacked (especially with barren/always forward hill arabia being your choice of map 65% of the time). Certainly aren't going to be able to match production if your wood is invested in palisades rather than military buildings or farms.
You should not be automatically rewarded for sending three militia and a scout forward with winning a game, or because your civ has a free-instant/automatic upgrade that your militia become unfightable man-at-arms in feudal age.
I'm not sure what ELO opponents you're playing who are beating you because they are "mindlessly booming," as even pre-nerf it takes a considerable amount of forethought and planning to not have a base broken into while harming yourself with the cost/idle time of walling vis your opponent.
You probably are just poor at aggressive play and follow up.
What's next? Removing walls and starting with a Rax at your opponents base with 3 militia inside of it?
Might as well, just will speed up the beginning even more!
Compared to the past, there was still risk when Trushing was in the meta, as towers on two woodlines was enough to delay an FC plenty, making Arabia a map where both offensive and defensive strategies could be seen (though with a preference toward offensive strategies, usually depending on map generation.) People complaining about a stale Arabia meta, and supposing the way to fix this is walling nerfs, shall end up with an even more stale meta where mirroring aggro is the only way to play Arabia. I guarantee it!but compared to the past, there was minimal risk which just doesn't make sense for an open map like Arabia.
Sounds great.Compared to the past, there was still risk when Trushing was in the meta, as towers on two woodlines was enough to delay an FC plenty, making Arabia a map where both offensive and defensive strategies could be seen (though with a preference toward offensive strategies, usually depending on map generation.) People complaining about a stale Arabia meta, and supposing the way to fix this is walling nerfs, shall end up with an even more stale meta where mirroring aggro is the only way to play Arabia. I guarantee it!
Thumb ring is very strong in the games I've played. You can rush for it and win the game purely because you have it -- faster shooting means you can micro down every enemy Archer sometimes without losing a single one of your own. Have you seen that clip of badboy with tatars killing daut's 8 crossbows with his 5 crossbows and thumb ring ? (Badboy was tatars)How much does removing Thumb Ring really impact Vikings though? I think Thumb Ring is overrated and below I will outline why.
1. Faster firing speed - apparently TR gives 18% faster firing on the archer line. How much does that matter when microing though? The step-and-fire microing means that the firing speed is determined by the player not the game. Nobody really just let's their archers or xbows just sit there and fire at will. They might in imp but then we're talking 18% ...not 30%. This is why Aztecs and Britons (neither of which have TR) can go Archers, Xbow and Arba no problem.
2. 100% accuracy at non-moving targets - first of all non-moving targets are easily hit even by a few feudal archers. The recent buff to archer accuracy means that even moving targets are hit frequently by feudal archers now. Plus the way players mass archers, there is a sort of overkill aspect anyway. Even if some archers miss, many won't thereby hurting or killing the unit anyway. This is especially true with ballistics mass xbows, they won't miss. TR is basically a non-factor here.
3. The cost. 300 Food and 250 Wood is actually quite expensive in castle age. If anything this frees up even more resources to an already great Viking economy. I'm calling it now, this is actually a buff to Vikings. Viking fast imp into Arba will become a meta.
Which is completely fine!The thumb ring nerf will make Vikings A tier instead of S tier
Thumb ring is very strong in the games I've played. You can rush for it and win the game purely because you have it -- faster shooting means you can micro down every enemy Archer sometimes without losing a single one of your own. Have you seen that clip of badboy with tatars killing daut's 8 crossbows with his 5 crossbows and thumb ring ? (Badboy was tatars)
The thumb ring nerf will make Vikings A tier instead of S tier
Iirc badboy also had the hillI love Daut as much as the next guy, but come on it's Daut
Thx for the answer, I really appreacite the tip.I know it is rough, but I think it is probably to try to build skirms insteado of Man At Arms, to be honest.
MAA are useful, but I do not think you should commit to them in Feudal Age.
I think other folks here will be better advisors than myself, though
Unless you are Goths maybe?Thx for the answer, I really appreacite the tip.
I think you just proved that no matter the small buffs on infantry, it is still very hard to make a game plan where you main them, you'll always need cav or skirm backup and, even before massing militia, you'll have to get the opponent weak to make it effective.
You need to download the november pup preview as a beta, then check the tec trees of each civ.Where is the official release note? I can't find it in here, there is only October version. I guess I am missing something.
^this and it doesn't even need to be Tartars.Thumb ring is very strong in the games I've played. You can rush for it and win the game purely because you have it -- faster shooting means you can micro down every enemy Archer sometimes without losing a single one of your own. Have you seen that clip of badboy with tatars killing daut's 8 crossbows with his 5 crossbows and thumb ring ? (Badboy was tatars)
The thumb ring nerf will make Vikings A tier instead of S tier
Sadly Vikings lack options to do that. It's not they have, let's say, the recently buffed longswords with extra HP or something^this and it doesn't even need to be Tartars.
I've seen many games where pros went xbow + bodkin + TR and absolutetly shred meso eagle play in early castle age. It surely depends on the matchup but removing it from Vikings is way more impactful than people tend to believe in this thread.
Which requires a costly tech switch, new production buildings and is easily countered by the fact that Incas and Mayans get full upgraded archer lines wheras Atztecs will be way ahead before I can even finish my switch. Now you decide if you go for kts, which are bad in the long run, and infantry which is on the backfoot from the very start and in late imp you are dying because you dont even get Husar.Sadly Vikings lack options to do that. It's not they have, let's say, the recently buffed longswords with extra HP or something
its possible. a balance definitely needs to be had. but generally speaking, if two equally skilled players were facing off with a balanced civ matchup, early full walling generally seemed to have a much bigger advantage over early aggressionCompared to the past, there was still risk when Trushing was in the meta, as towers on two woodlines was enough to delay an FC plenty, making Arabia a map where both offensive and defensive strategies could be seen (though with a preference toward offensive strategies, usually depending on map generation.) People complaining about a stale Arabia meta, and supposing the way to fix this is walling nerfs, shall end up with an even more stale meta where mirroring aggro is the only way to play Arabia. I guarantee it!
Then the two of us were watching two completely different AoE II's before DE released and Twitch streamers still played on Voobly 11.early full walling generally seemed to have a much bigger advantage over early aggression
I was referring to DE and how it's been the past year or so. not sure where voobly came into the equation or how it even relates at this point.Then the two of us were watching two completely different AoE II's before DE released and Twitch streamers still played on Voobly 11.
Why did you think this would be obvious from a simple "compared to the past" for a game with 20+ years of competitive history?I was referring to DE and how it's been the past year or so. not sure where voobly came into the equation or how it even relates at this point.
considering voobly game play has no bearing or relation to DE gameplay or current gameplay, id say it seems pretty obvious. but that's what I get for assuming I suppose.Why did you think this would be obvious from a simple "compared to the past" for a game with 20+ years of competitive history?
The bigger issue seems to be thinking something that is at best only partially true.considering voobly game play has no bearing or relation to DE gameplay or current gameplay, id say it seems pretty obvious. but that's what I get for assuming I suppose.
neatThe bigger issue seems to be thinking something that is at best only partially true.
You could try explaining why what you think is the case. I said that your statement is only partially true because many players of DE also played on Voobly and therefore are naturally going to orient their experience playing DE to their experience playing on Voobly. If you meant something more narrow then you should specify it.neat
I already had clarified what I meant. not sure how repeating myself would clarify it further.You could try explaining why what you think is the case. I said that your statement is only partially true because many players of DE also played on Voobly and therefore are naturally going to orient their experience playing DE to their experience playing on Voobly. If you meant something more narrow then you should specify it.