Nili announces NC4 - $100K AoE4 LAN

[shihuo]

i think the numbers of viewers will tell nili that aoe2 is more popular

 

[LowEloNobody]

I think this is actually a great point.
I think that NC4 will determine the eSports future of AoE4 for better or worse.
If it's a big success, there will be more motivation and support for other AoE4 tourneys.

BUT

If NC4 is a flop from a viewer/interaction standpoint, it will look REALLY bad given it's massive prize pool etc.

Either way, Nili is going to give us some rich data to argue about in 2 months

 

[Elvaenor]

For the people saying TheViper shouldn't have been invited, please tell me who you think should've been invited instead.

Why do people have to be invited perse?
I do truly get the invitations in aoe2, as it's pretty evident the top 8 will just obliterate their way through the qualifiers anyway (though we did have some -almost- upsets before) but with such a new game it does make sense to have everyone earn their spot by actually qualifying right?
Not that I care too much, but I'm actually wondering why you would invite people here, as letting 8 people qualify over 2 qualifiers actually is easier as well since you can invite all semi-finalists per qualifier.

Regarding the money, I don't think it's too bad. Nili is a proven tournament organizer and I agree with people here that if he hosted this tournament for aoe2 nobody would give a second thought about it. While the player numbers from aoe2 are now just edging out those of aoe4, afaik viewer numbers are still higher on average for aoe4 and that's a way more important metric to look at when deciding sponsorships. If you look at something like F1 there's a relative negligable amount of people that are racing themselves, in F1 or otherwise, while it's a multi-billion affair. I would also prefer to see aoe2 myself since I don't enjoy aoe4, but to criticize Nili about it is just dumb imo.

 

[OGN]

Why do people have to be invited perse?
I do truly get the invitations in aoe2, as it's pretty evident the top 8 will just obliterate their way through the qualifiers anyway (though we did have some -almost- upsets before) but with such a new game it does make sense to have everyone earn their spot by actually qualifying right?
Not that I care too much, but I'm actually wondering why you would invite people here, as letting 8 people qualify over 2 qualifiers actually is easier as well since you can invite all semi-finalists per qualifier.

Regarding the money, I don't think it's too bad. Nili is a proven tournament organizer and I agree with people here that if he hosted this tournament for aoe2 nobody would give a second thought about it. While the player numbers from aoe2 are now just edging out those of aoe4, afaik viewer numbers are still higher on average for aoe4 and that's a way more important metric to look at when deciding sponsorships. If you look at something like F1 there's a relative negligable amount of people that are racing themselves, in F1 or otherwise, while it's a multi-billion affair. I would also prefer to see aoe2 myself since I don't enjoy aoe4, but to criticize Nili about it is just dumb imo.

Don't forget that we lost our 2 biggest streamers on AOE2 where AOE4 gained some big SC2 streamers.

For the rest, get a grip on yourselves gentlemen, don't forget that there is a human behind every nickname... I hate AOE4 myself but let's try to stay correct, some posts are really hard.

 

[mercosad21]

i just saw some guy said we should also hate Dave or somethn so i decided to comment 11
Dave is simply unhateable, wth is there to hate him come on, hes doing what he was asked to do and trying to do it properly.
Also his wife is still at the mall so go easy on him

 

[enmipho]

For the rest, get a grip on yourselves gentlemen, don't forget that there is a human behind every nickname... I hate AOE4 myself but let's try to stay correct, some posts are really hard.

Strongly agreed. There are many aspects of Nili's decisions given his position that invite criticism and skepticism, but the random drive-by potshots people are taking at Nili for his aoe4 results etc. don't do anything positive and only distract from the real criticisms people are making.

 

[mytholia]

Is Nili going to keep any money? I don't think so

In the previous NACs, Nili always took a part of the prize pool.

Nili is really such a big hypocrite. He is for the environment and nature, but he flies in people from whole the world for his own personal greed.

Why did he not let all the players play from home? Then they could save more money and less CO2 output. That players need to play on a LAN was only because then other streamers were not able to cast it.

I would expect Nili (who is a self-declared lefty) to be much more ethical. And on top of this, he is now stealing the MS prize pool.

I have zero respect for him no matter what he has done in the past.

 

[Elvaenor]

Don't forget that we lost our 2 biggest streamers on AOE2 where AOE4 gained some big SC2 streamers.

Fair enough, that does have a significant impact. Doesn't change the facts right now though, and people act like aoe4 has a tiny playerbase compared to aoe2!

 

[MyRegalTip]

C'mon quit acting surprised- ofc MS is gonna throw money at their new game. I agree it's messy when it comes down to one person deciding how money is split, but if you guys expected MS to let aoe4 die you're delusional. Personally I think there should be more oversight than simply Nili, but I doubt MS really sees this cash as a priority to pay attention to/pay extra people to oversee. Have faith in aoe2, we're not going anywhere- other lans will happen.

 

[Cuth]

not gonna lie, OGN is a legend

 

[Snizl]

In the previous NACs, Nili always took a part of the prize pool.

Nili is really such a big hypocrite. He is for the environment and nature, but he flies in people from whole the world for his own personal greed.

Why did he not let all the players play from home? Then they could save more money and less CO2 output. That players need to play on a LAN was only because then other streamers were not able to cast it.

I would expect Nili (who is a self-declared lefty) to be much more ethical. And on top of this, he is now stealing the MS prize pool.

I have zero respect for him no matter what he has done in the past.

nice try.

 

[just_sum_guy]

I don't think it's a huge controversy. I just won't watch.

 

[Baron Icey Harkonnen]

times like these make me appreciate spirt of the law so much more
stay true you white knight
stay true

 

[LowEloNobody]

In the previous NACs, Nili always took a part of the prize pool.

Nili is really such a big hypocrite. He is for the environment and nature, but he flies in people from whole the world for his own personal greed.

Why did he not let all the players play from home? Then they could save more money and less CO2 output. That players need to play on a LAN was only because then other streamers were not able to cast it.

I would expect Nili (who is a self-declared lefty) to be much more ethical. And on top of this, he is now stealing the MS prize pool.

I have zero respect for him no matter what he has done in the past.

I don't think this is true?

Not sure about Nili taking prize pool from NAC3,
Edit: Nili paid out 3% of prizepool to various support staff and himself from NAC3. Think he made about $1500 total. He was transparent about this and had it on his stream.
but it would not be unreasonable to take a coordinator fee (although the primary motivation is usually channel growth). Nili has committed to publishing a full breakout of expenses etc for NC4, so as long as that transparency is real, we can see how the money is spent.

The argument for a LAN is that is is a fun event to broadcast, and audiences enjoy them. I think that's a pretty solid point, although you could argue the degree to which it is more or less important than the impact of travel etc.

Nili has already said that NC4 is open casting, so the argument that it is so others can't cast it is pretty dumb


Overall, I give your post a 3. Nice attempt at drama, but really ****ing stupid

 

[sheeesh]

At first I thought I'm not going to watch any of this since I am not really a fan of spectating AoE4 but
A LAN tournament with people who barely know each other, buggy game and 100k in the middle? Get them play monopoly on first night in GL house and I tune in for every juicy second of it.

 

[lisa19980325]

Don't forget that we lost our 2 biggest streamers on AOE2 where AOE4 gained some big SC2 streamers.

For the rest, get a grip on yourselves gentlemen, don't forget that there is a human behind every nickname... I hate AOE4 myself but let's try to stay correct, some posts are really hard.

Are you really sure that you lost 2 biggest AOE2 streamers? Didn't viper already come back on AOE4?
And as AOE4 goes out of the trend, we SC2 players can go back on SC2 by any times

 

[SuperskinnyBLS]

Also his wife is still at the mall so go easy on him

Did she go to get the milk?

 

[SuperskinnyBLS]

@lisa19980325 hello, since you are involved in Korean SC2 scene, could You please tell how big the game is in there? I was always curious.

 

[Biz]

spectatorZone shocked to find out that game developers prioritize advertising a new $60 game with future DLCs instead of a $15 game that everyone who is watching it would have already purchased

what's the ROI on an aoe2 tournament?
some random twitch/youtube people get money. a couple players get some prizes. microsoft gets nothing. customers (players) get nothing.

aoe4 tournament is also pretty useless for customers, but at least the advertising has some theoretical ROI

they should be spending on game developers and quality assurance and hiring a better team for aoe5 or SC3. having actual hotkeys in aoe4 would cost much less than $100K, for example

 

[komtan]

WOW AOE4 VS AOE2 RACE WAR.
RLY REAL FIGHT IS HERE.
Thanks for the big war chance.

NAC3 score:https://liquipedia.net/ageofempires/Nilis_Apartment_Cup/3
if NAC4 26000view, we have to HARAKIRI.

 

[huntskiki]

spectatorZone shocked to find out that game developers prioritize advertising a new $60 game with future DLCs instead of a $15 game that everyone who is watching it would have already purchased

what's the ROI on an aoe2 tournament?
some random twitch/youtube people get money. a couple players get some prizes. microsoft gets nothing. customers (players) get nothing.

aoe4 tournament is also pretty useless for customers, but at least the advertising has some theoretical ROI

they should be spending on game developers and quality assurance and hiring a better team for aoe5 or SC3. having actual hotkeys in aoe4 would cost much less than $100K, for example

I can understand why you might feel that way watching the average aoe2 tournament, but I think that's more a reflection of how MS has run aoe2 esports and how they appear to be running aoe4 esports. They don't do this with all of their games. Halo Infinite just launched in the fall and they already have a pro league formed and held a LAN event with a $350,000 prize pool, full broadcast coverage, and all of the biggest esports orgs (https://halo-esports.fandom.com/wiki/Halo_Championship_Series/2022_Season/Kickoff_Major_Raleigh). There's going to be another six LAN events culminating in a $1,000,000 World Championship in October 2022.

Esports is huge in terms of driving interest long-term in the game. Yes, RTS games have fallen by the wayside a bit, but there is still the opportunity to utilize the esports side of game like aoe2 and continue to drive interest and ultimately revenue towards the developer. MS just isn't very good at running esports, and so when they are serious bout one they hire an outside company (HCS uses Esports Engine, a company founded by Adam Apicalla who originally started MLG).

Aoe2 fans showed how valuable they are throughout the pandemic. If you give us decent events with enough cash to sustain a pro-scene, people are very loyal and will tune in. Aoe2 punches well above its weight in terms of ROI. MS gives peanuts to aoe2 compared to what something like the HCS costs. I also remember Dave, who (used?) to be in marketing explaining that for a company like Red Bull that compared to other initiatives the events they hosted had a great ROI.

I was hopeful that aoe4 might be different and we could actually develop a real esports scene, but it seems they are content to just let Nili allocate the funds however he sees fit and call it day.

 

[homers84]

it is way easier to introduce microtransactions in fps-games than in rts-games. warzone makes per day (or did at one point) 5.2mio usd per day with skins. so of course an investment in halo makes way more sense than for aoe4. my assumption that at the moment they are trying to further establish the brand aoe, so they can release at one point a mobile game with microtransactions and earn 1 gigatrillion amount of dollars.

 

[HongeyKong]

yeah, only aoe2 players can let aoe4 downfall
aoe4 was once a potential game than aoe2.
Besides, It is so annoying to red your Chinese people comments from aoe4 since aoe4 was released last year

What have they written?

 

[Biz]

I can understand why you might feel that way watching the average aoe2 tournament, but I think that's more a reflection of how MS has run aoe2 esports and how they appear to be running aoe4 esports. They don't do this with all of their games. Halo Infinite just launched in the fall and they already have a pro league formed and held a LAN event with a $350,000 prize pool, full broadcast coverage, and all of the biggest esports orgs (https://halo-esports.fandom.com/wiki/Halo_Championship_Series/2022_Season/Kickoff_Major_Raleigh). There's going to be another six LAN events culminating in a $1,000,000 World Championship in October 2022.

Esports is huge in terms of driving interest long-term in the game. Yes, RTS games have fallen by the wayside a bit, but there is still the opportunity to utilize the esports side of game like aoe2 and continue to drive interest and ultimately revenue towards the developer. MS just isn't very good at running esports, and so when they are serious bout one they hire an outside company (HCS uses Esports Engine, a company founded by Adam Apicalla who originally started MLG).

Aoe2 fans showed how valuable they are throughout the pandemic. If you give us decent events with enough cash to sustain a pro-scene, people are very loyal and will tune in. Aoe2 punches well above its weight in terms of ROI. MS gives peanuts to aoe2 compared to what something like the HCS costs. I also remember Dave, who (used?) to be in marketing explaining that for a company like Red Bull that compared to other initiatives the events they hosted had a great ROI.

I was hopeful that aoe4 might be different and we could actually develop a real esports scene, but it seems they are content to just let Nili allocate the funds however he sees fit and call it day.

halo's a different situation. that game generates lots of traffic and cross-sells so many things

halo gets a new game every year or every two years. there are lots of microtransactions (most multiplayer game revenue is mtx now, even for pay-to-play games). and it leads to xbox live subscriptions, gamepass subscriptions, purchases of xbox consoles, purchases of xbox controllers, xbox headsets, purchases of other xbox games. microsoft gets a cut of everything. and on xbox digital store they keep 100% and people mostly pay full price, unlike on steam

an aoe2 fan being loyal on twitch doesn't translate to any additional revenue. you're valuable for individual streamers and amazon (twitch) and google (youtube), but not microsoft. even if you buy more steam games or a better graphics card or a better mouse, microsoft doesn't benefit

aoe2's situation is closer to starcraft. even though SC2 was a full-priced game with $40 expansions and some other DLCs and on a store with other games that gave 100% of revenue to blizzard, it wasn't enough. and starcraft even herded the viewers to their own channels (or the TO's channels) instead of letting random streamers get the bulk of the money, but it barely matters

i'm not saying there shouldn't be aoe2 tournaments, but i don't think $100K is reasonable. do some crowdfunding. hope for sponsors. get the streamers to fund more of it. but expect smaller prizes

 

[lecracheursagacite]

halo's a different situation. that game generates lots of traffic and cross-sells so many things

halo gets a new game every year or every two years. there are lots of microtransactions (most multiplayer game revenue is mtx now, even for pay-to-play games). and it leads to xbox live subscriptions, gamepass subscriptions, purchases of xbox consoles, purchases of xbox controllers, xbox headsets, purchases of other xbox games. microsoft gets a cut of everything. and on xbox digital store they keep 100% and people mostly pay full price, unlike on steam

an aoe2 fan being loyal on twitch doesn't translate to any additional revenue. you're valuable for individual streamers and amazon (twitch) and google (youtube), but not microsoft. even if you buy more steam games or a better graphics card or a better mouse, microsoft doesn't benefit

aoe2's situation is closer to starcraft. even though SC2 was a full-priced game with $40 expansions and some other DLCs and on a store with other games that gave 100% of revenue to blizzard, it wasn't enough. and starcraft even herded the viewers to their own channels (or the TO's channels) instead of letting random streamers get the bulk of the money, but it barely matters

I think your point that games tend to be more viable as a major esport when they are an endless vending machine of cosmetics is generally correct but I wouldn't say that pricing model is the only reason for SC2 declining.