Nili announces NC4 - $100K AoE4 LAN

[LowEloNobody]

Taking the average for teamgames in AOE4 really doesn't make any sense, anyone that plays any of the 3 modes is a team game player. So every one of the 54k 3v3 players would be considered as ranked in the AOE2 TG ladder, for example.

So the number of team game players is between the maximum (54k) and the sum (147.3k), depending on how much overlap there is.

Taking a quick random sample of the players (10 latest of each of the three modes), on average, each team game player is ranked in 2.1 different modes. So, we have approximately 147.3k/2.1 = 70.14k team game players in ranked AOE4. That would also line up with what you'd expect from the 1v1 numbers.

Ok, so even with those assumptions, AoE4 is still likely currently smaller for both 1v1 and TGs. The ladder information is on a 30 day delay before numbers drop off, and for the last 30 days, AoE2 has been growing while AoE4 has been declining.
There is really no argument left that AoE4 has a larger player base than AoE2. Now the question is how much smaller it gets before the decline stops.

 

[NKamayuk]

Ok, so even with those assumptions, AoE4 is still likely currently smaller for both 1v1 and TGs. The ladder information is on a 30 day delay before numbers drop off, and for the last 30 days, AoE2 has been growing while AoE4 has been declining.
There is really no argument left that AoE4 has a larger player base than AoE2. Now the question is how much smaller it gets before the decline stops.

I wouldn't actually agree with that.

If look at only the last 2 hours (here I qualify anything that aoe2.net/aoe4.net refer to as minutes/about 1 hour ago), I get approximately 850 matches for AOE4 1v1 ladder and 650 matches for AOE2 1v1 ladder.

Of course that will vary according to times and such so this isn't any precise measure, but I definitely don't think we can say that aoe2 current has more active ranked match players without any further thought on the matter.

I do think that a big part of the reason that AOE4 declined a significant amount over the holidays is that the devs went MIA for 2 months while the meta was in a rather poor state, but updates are starting again (the latest one a week ago was well received), with some things in the near future that I think could significantly help retention (the start of official ranked seasons, for example, could have an immediate effect IMO - and there is an announced major spring update for march with things such as custom maps, etc...), so we'll have to see how that evolves.

Currently, both games are about in the same ballpark in terms of player base; that's about all I think can be said with any certainty.

 

[lecracheursagacite]

I wouldn't actually agree with that.

If look at only the last 2 hours (here I qualify anything that aoe2.net/aoe4.net refer to as minutes/about 1 hour ago), I get approximately 850 matches for AOE4 1v1 ladder and 650 matches for AOE2 1v1 ladder.

Of course that will vary according to times and such so this isn't any precise measure, but I definitely don't think we can say that aoe2 current has more active ranked match players without any further thought on the matter.

I do think that a big part of the reason that AOE4 declined a significant amount over the holidays is that the devs went MIA for 2 months while the meta was in a rather poor state, but updates are starting again (the latest one a week ago was well received), with some things in the near future that I think could significantly help retention (the start of official ranked seasons, for example, could have an immediate effect IMO - and there is an announced major spring update for march with things such as custom maps, etc...), so we'll have to see how that evolves.

Currently, both games are about in the same ballpark in terms of player base; that's about all I think can be said with any certainty.

Do these things address the game being terrible or are you saying that they were driving away part of the subset of players like Nili and Spring who are able to tolerate the game despite it being terrible?

 

[NKamayuk]

Do these things address the game being terrible or are you saying that they were driving away part of the subset of players like Nili and Spring who are able to tolerate the game despite it being terrible?

The things I mentioned are more so candy that helps with retention.

However, they are specifically addressing many of the main issues brought up by top players (such as Hera/Viper, and players from different backgrounds like ML).

The next patch is promised to, specifically, address the following issues;

-Siege being too powerful. This was a major issue that Hera and others had with the game, as it made the game very static hitting castle age.
-Mongols being too powerful. Basically something everyone has been complaining about, can make ladder games frustrating.
-Several issues that made hybrid maps less interesting, like too strong fishing and completely broken demo ships.

Custom maps once available, will allow to address a number of issues in and itself.

I do genuinely think that there is a very fun game inside there, plagued by a very poor meta, and that seems to be what top players are voicing as well. But that's improving, and there's a lot of promise of further improvement. One very positive change, for example, is that they nerfed the Pro Scouts tech, which now makes feudal age play much more important than it was previously. Further, they fixed most of the gamebreaking bugs, no way to easily cheat yourself to a victory anymore. A lot of specific things that still need to be fixed, but the main points have been listed out on a timeline for the devs to address, so that's promising.

 

[LowEloNobody]

If look at only the last 2 hours (here I qualify anything that aoe2.net/aoe4.net refer to as minutes/about 1 hour ago), I get approximately 850 matches for AOE4 1v1 ladder and 650 matches for AOE2 1v1 ladder.

I think picking a single point in time to do a comparison is a pretty poor way to compare anything, but ok.

I think we will just have to agree to disagree on this one, and wait for additional data. Given the consistent decline, within the next few weeks there will not be any math or metric or point in time you can choose that will show a larger player base for AoE4.

I do agree that fixing the game/bugs/balance of AoE4 will help to retain players, but the question is, how many player will be left when the game is fixed? Recent balance patches, S-tier tournaments, and the announcement of a $100k LAN have not stopped player attrition, so if they are going to do something, I think it really needs to happen NOW.

Even if they do stop attrition completely, they will need to bring players back to the game in order for it to be successful long-term. I think that is a much bigger challenge than retention.

 

[Dusk2Dawn]

900 viewers(aoe4) vs over 7k during first game from vinch vs hera showmatch om aoe2

 

[LowEloNobody]

900 viewers(aoe4) vs over 7k during first game from vinch vs hera showmatch om aoe2

Choosing a single point of time comparison is incredibly misleading. AoE4 consistently has more viewers on twitch than AoE2. That's just a fact

 

[LowEloNobody]

You can see below that yes, Age of Empires 2 has more viewers right this very second, but that it has about 30% less viewers on average over the past week. Viewership is also declining for AoE4, but it still commands a larger audience on twitch.

 

[Snizl]

So what exactly are we talking about here again? Why exactly are we still fighting like 6 year olds which Dinosaur is the biggest, and who's Daddy buys you more toys for three months straight?

 

[Thisplacehasaproblem]

So what exactly are we talking about here again? Why exactly are we still fighting like 6 year olds which Dinosaur is the biggest, and who's Daddy buys you more toys for three months straight?

Constructive & helpful. Great job chipping in.

 

[Snizl]

Constructive & helpful. Great job chipping in.

Sorry, should have provided my own opinion:
I believe currently the biggest dinosaur in terms of weight is the Argentinosaur, however I always was more of a fan, of what I believe is the biggest raptor, the Deinonychus (the one the jurassic park ones were modeled after, but incorrectly named Velociraptor. A fact that haunted me for a long time as I could never understand why the other kids preferred the Velociraptor when the Deinonychus was bigger, only figuring out the misnaming in the movie a couple of years ago, finally releasing me from this anguish)

 

[LowEloNobody]

So what exactly are we talking about here again? Why exactly are we still fighting like 6 year olds which Dinosaur is the biggest, and who's Daddy buys you more toys for three months straight?

Because my daddy didn't buy me any toys as a child, leading me to believe I wasn't loved, and ultimately to being a member of this site

 

[Dusk2Dawn]

Choosing a single point of time comparison is incredibly misleading. AoE4 consistently has more viewers on twitch than AoE2. That's just a fact

it was also me repeating a few times in other posts that aoe4 has triple viewers whenever i checked, but the trend is clear; less than double now, not even a month later

 

[Thisplacehasaproblem]

Sorry, should have provided my own opinion:
I believe currently the biggest dinosaur in terms of weight is the Argentinosaur, however I always was more of a fan, of what I believe is the biggest raptor, the Deinonychus (the one the jurassic park ones were modeled after, but incorrectly named Velociraptor. A fact that haunted me for a long time as I could never understand why the other kids preferred the Velociraptor when the Deinonychus was bigger, only figuring out the misnaming in the movie a couple of years ago, finally releasing me from this anguish)

I feel sorry for whoever has to fake laugh at your jokes IRL.

 

[doville]

You can see below that yes, Age of Empires 2 has more viewers right this very second, but that it has about 30% less viewers on average over the past week. Viewership is also declining for AoE4, but it still commands a larger audience on twitch.

View attachment 197552
View attachment 197553

yes, aoe4 has more viewers than aoe2 at twitch.

why? not because aoe4 better than aoe2. the reasons are:

1 biggest aoe2 twitcher-T90 moved to FB, 6000 viewers lost for aoe2
2 second biggest aoe2 twitcher-Viper moved to FB, 4000 viewers lost for aoe2
3 third biggest aoe2 twitcher-Hera switched to aoe4, 2000 viewers lost for aoe2, 2000 viewers gained for aoe4
4 some big sc2 and wc3 players like Beastyqt, MarineLorD, DeMusliM.... switched to aoe4. they bring lot of their fan base to aoe4.

but future of aoe4 is not optimistic，we saw huge decline on both players and viewers for aoe4, and more pessimistic is this decline is counting......

 

[MrIster24]

Deinonychus is definitely not the biggest dromeosaurid. It was still a bit shorter than a person though it was quite a bit longer than tall. Utahraptor is the thing of nightmares and there may be others I can't think of.

 

[SuperskinnyBLS]

and more pessimistic is this decline is counting......

Hey man, that isn't pessimistic, people just do not play bad games; D

 

[MaSmOrRa]

Welp, this pretty much explains why score is totally irrelevant in AoE 4:

...it's important to note that these systems are clearly not finished so all of this is extremely subject to change. This also makes it unclear what is even intended. For example, in the clearly unfinished bucket, we have time to age 2 and 3 but not for age 4, and we have max income for food and wood but not gold or stone. In the oddities bucket, largest army is actually your largest population (and includes Mongols sheep from pastures), your starting resources aren't included in the economy tab and deleting a unit/building counts as a kill/raze. In the definitely bugged bucket, a standard skirmish 1v1 against an AI (or solo) that is surrendered immediately says we have vill high and total population of 12/13 even though we clearly have 6 vills, a scout and a TC each...

 

[z3us]

Welp, this pretty much explains why score is totally irrelevant in AoE 4:

Here I thought aoe2 score mechanism was ****ed 1111111111

And, I hope that these devs are intentionally being so incompetent, cause I don't understand how you can **** up this much without putting a fair bit of effort.

 

[TopperHarley]

Welp, this pretty much explains why score is totally irrelevant in AoE 4:

The conversion thing is funny. So if you convert a huge army from your opponent, then win a big fight (while losing the units you converted) it might make you lose points while you might have just won the game 11

 

[Don Dinardoni]

Choosing a single point of time comparison is incredibly misleading. AoE4 consistently has more viewers on twitch than AoE2. That's just a fact

It does. However, the trend is rather concerning. Without saying whether AoE2 or AoE4 is better, the numbers are rather clear at the moment. Here is a snapshot per end of December. I will update this in a few days to include the January numbers. If you are interested in more like this, you are welcome to check my attempt at a summary for AoE2 vs AoE4 after the firsts two months since AoE4's release. https://dondinardoni.com/aoe2-and-aoe4-friend-or-foe/

 

[Fall]

There's been more discussion of N4C on AOE2 boards than there has on AOE4 boards.

 

[IamJeo]

There's been more discussion of N4C on AOE2 boards than there has on AOE4 boards.

I'm curious: which platforms/boards do you mean? Just wondering if it's reddit, here on zone or elsewhere where I might in future want to check on aoe4's update-status etc to see if it's in a purchasable state.

 

[oozkan]

There's been more discussion of N4C on AOE2 boards than there has on AOE4 boards.

Isn't that normal if you sell your AOE2 branded tournament (kind of tournament which made Nili's channel grow) with a record price amount to competitor? It is like Figo transfer from Barça to Real, you should not be suprised that pig heads are thrown.

 

[doacid]

Isn't that normal if you sell your AOE2 branded tournament (kind of tournament which made Nili's channel grow) with a record price amount to competitor? It is like Figo transfer from Barça to Real, you should not be suprised that pig heads are thrown.

What a mess that was. It's not what I'd consider normal. Common perhaps, in certain circles, but personal attacks like those are definitely not normal, even less so if they're physical.

Just curious though, in your analogy who are the aoezone users you consider to be the ones throwing all kinds of stuff (Whisky bottles, pig's head, etc) to Figo/Nili?

For reference and for those of you totally lost, this is Nili on his first stream back in aoe2, circa 2002

El Clásico de...'El cochinillo' Temporada 2002/2003

Las mejores imágenes de los clásicos de las últimas temporadas

youtu.be