Nili announces NC4 - $100K AoE4 LAN

[Zeev]

I find it sad that Nili who has done so much for this game and community becomes immediately a public enemy number one when he dares to like the other game. With AOE4 there wouldn't be that much money from MS. It's perfectly reasonable that AOE 4 will also get a lion share of that money. Fact also is that AOE4 still gets more views on Twitch than AOE2.

Can't wait for the tournament and to see other people than just the same faces Viper, Hera, Yo, Villese, Mbl etc.

 

[Tendo]

Fact also is that AOE4 still gets more views on Twitch than AOE2.

Reasons why AoE4 get's more Viewers on Twitch than AoE2:

1. Viper moved to FB Gaming

2. T90 moved to FB Gaming

 

[Halleju]

Reasons why AoE4 get's more Viewers on Twitch than AoE2:

1. Viper moved to FB Gaming

2. T90 moved to FB Gaming

3. Demuslim hype. It will calm down soon.

 

[lecracheursagacite]

There is accountability, do you think Microsoft don't sign off on these investments? Do you think they'd let Nili get away with funding a 100k Nili v Kasva showmatch? Nili is doing exactly what MS want, credit to him for fronting up and being a massive mudguard for aoe2 community discontent.

Kasva quit his job for AoE2, I think you could say he deserves a free 100k.

 

[ltm]

Well it's easy, if Nili didn't want this negativity he shouldn't have turned his stream into an AOE4 channel, take the MS job and then allocate 100k prize pool to his own event.

He did it anyway, probably because he thinks the benefits of it are worth it for him. So it is what it is. Maybe he gets paid for it, or just deeply loves AOE4 it doesn't matter in the end it's his decision and i'm sure everything is fine there with MS.

Just like Viper/T90 had every right to move to FB but still got a lot of **** for it. Or how Viper promoted some shady crypto currency and got feedback from his community. Now Nili is forcing AOE4 and also get's a reaction. Nothing special about it, that's the life of a streamer.

 

[Lord Bolton]

Reasons why AoE4 get's more Viewers on Twitch than AoE2:

1. Viper moved to FB Gaming

2. T90 moved to FB Gaming

Why are you reasoning why twitch viewers for aoe2 are low? Incase you are missing the point, The Sponsors/MS dont care about reasons, they care about how much viewership and attention the tournament will get. T90 and Viper made their decisions for their own benefits no doubt but that decision has costed this debacle for aoe2. You can't make an objective argument why aoe4 shouldnt get a 100k tourney compared to aoe2 right now. the attention to aoe4 is way higher, almost double the average viewer count on twitch, more players on ladder, etc.

 

[LowEloNobody]

more players on ladder, etc.

This is incorrect. AoE2 has a more active multiplayer ladder than AoE4, but AoE4 does still have a larger viewer count on twitch

 

[Beanslinger]

Yikes everyone gets so upset about Nili for having the audacity to organise a tournament (how dare he, what will Microsoft think about that?). Truth of the matter is, if everybody who circlejerks about hating Nili decided to watch a lesser tournament or smaller aoe2 streamer, the community would instantly improve and we would have different tournament organisers and tournament series down the road.

 

[Lord Bolton]

This is incorrect. AoE2 has a more active multiplayer ladder than AoE4, but AoE4 does still have a larger viewer count on twitch

if you are refering steamdb, then its not complete data. I usually check aoeiv.net and aoe2.net for current ongoing lobbies and aoe4 has 1600 ongoing games vs 1000 ongoing games of aoe2 de. I would put more stock on current ongoing games metric as this includes gamepass as well

 

[HongeyKong]

if you are refering steamdb, then its not complete data. I usually check aoeiv.net and aoe2.net for current ongoing lobbies and aoe4 has 1600 ongoing games vs 1000 ongoing games of aoe2 de. I would put more stock on current ongoing games metric as this includes gamepass as well

aoe2.net has a 1000 cap

 

[LowEloNobody]

if you are refering steamdb, then its not complete data. I usually check aoeiv.net and aoe2.net for current ongoing lobbies and aoe4 has 1600 ongoing games vs 1000 ongoing games of aoe2 de. I would put more stock on current ongoing games metric as this includes gamepass as well

Robo pulled full ladder activity for a 1 month period in a tweet about 3 weeks ago and AoE4 and AoE2 were about even on ladder activity. AoE4 has continued to decline since then, and AoE2 has actually grown slightly

 

[malamadre]

if you are refering steamdb, then its not complete data. I usually check aoeiv.net and aoe2.net for current ongoing lobbies and aoe4 has 1600 ongoing games vs 1000 ongoing games of aoe2 de. I would put more stock on current ongoing games metric as this includes gamepass as well

You can count HD version, voobly and gameranger.

 

[Black Adder]

Nice to see some slight shift in perception in the community over the years towards certain things, but apparently we still have ways to go. Some of the things have been said.

Basic thing is to understand Microsoft sponsorship is not, and never has been, about supporting competitive play. It is, and always has been, marketing. While some of the tournaments are maybe meant competitively by the hosts, the sponsorship itself has only marketing as a goal. That should put things for some of you into correct perspective. Because then it all makes way more sense.

Second, Definitive Editions, patches, DLCs, Microsoft's involvement, etc., has always been only about one thing - Age of Empires IV. Brand and community building. With making a lot of money on the wayside from naïve hopefuls (and genuine enjoyers who don't need anything more than they got) that someone "cares" about their game and is not just using it to market the brand and test game features, development/game-as-a-service approaches and their reception.

Third, that there has been for a long term a certain group of people deciding most things going on in the community is not any secret unless you live under a rock, and some of them like to wash each others' hands, some were attempted to be ousted, some who play ball were added, but they certainly like to benefit themselves.

Pretty much all of them and every time will say it's "for the community," with various degrees of sincerity, when, by some obscure, absolutely random and unforeseen bad luck they benefit strongly personally, first and foremost. Just because they "happen" to receive the big sponsorship from MS. They basically just get a donation from MS.

Regarding the case here, it's clear, it's self-admitted, not much more to say here, you either want to see the reality or you don't, your personal choice.

If you look at the event from the combined perspective of the above points, it all makes perfect sense and there's really nothing strange about it. If you consider it a marketing event for pushing AoEIV, it's ok to do it how they please - instead of a marketing campaign, they do this. If you consider it a serious competitive-play community-minded major, it is a big problem, glaring red. Issue is the long-term misperception fueled by MS and also the tournament hosts, and actually the community itself believing unicorns and butterflies exist everywhere, because it brings more money and "community good will" that way. That's when and why you have the conflicts such as these. Besides the fact the overall treatment of the issues at hand (well, actually ignoring them) is terrible by everyone involved and really does not help the games and their communities.

Healthy competitive and community environment and care for it and much more importantly management looks completely different, but, that's the thing - nobody has been doing that, it's all just community marketing.

 

[Ruubenstock]

I find it sad that Nili who has done so much for this game and community becomes immediately a public enemy number one when he dares to like the other game. With AOE4 there wouldn't be that much money from MS. It's perfectly reasonable that AOE 4 will also get a lion share of that money. Fact also is that AOE4 still gets more views on Twitch than AOE2.

Can't wait for the tournament and to see other people than just the same faces Viper, Hera, Yo, Villese, Mbl etc.

This could be possible in AoE2 if we had team game tournaments

 

[MaSmOrRa]

Robo pulled full ladder activity for a 1 month period in a tweet about 3 weeks ago and AoE4 and AoE2 were about even on ladder activity. AoE4 has continued to decline since then, and AoE2 has actually grown slightly

@Rorarimbo frequently checks these numbers.
Last we talked, AoE 2 had a lot of more unranked lobby entries, but AoE4 still has slightly more 1v1 ranked entries.
I think it was 46k entries for AoE4 and 38k for AoE 2.

However there's a clear downward trend in AoE 4's 1v1 ladder and a clear upward trend in AoE 2's 1v1 ladder.

 

[realbigfish]

A Microsoft tournament coordinator should not be allowed to host tournaments himself. The conflict of interest is too big otherwise.

he would not have taken the job otherwise. It was clear from the beginning that he is allowed to. I am sure there are standards wether he gets it or someone else.

also besinde all this "moral" points: Nili is one of the proven tournement host. We all enjoyed his events and there is no reason not to give money to him to make a new tournement.

i am 100% an other tournement organuozer would have gave him the founding as well. personally i am happy that someone who is into the szene is doing it.

I understand the point of personal interest, which is ture but i prefer to have someone who knows whats gooing one then someone from the very outside.

 

[Socksyy]

i think its hilarious u kids talking **** about Nili. u wouldnt say this **** to him at lan, hes jacked. not only that but he wears the freshest clothes, eats at the chillest restaurants and hangs out with the hottest dudes. yall are pathetic lol

 

[Snizl]

he [...] hangs out with the hottest dudes. yall are pathetic lol

Well neither Slam nor Sitaux or Jordan are still playing AoE4, so he lost the claim to that and this truely is the reason why anyone dares to shun him.

 

[HongeyKong]

Well neither Slam nor Sitaux or Jordan are still playing AoE4, so he lost the claim to that and this truely is the reason why anyone dares to shun him.

Maybe Edies secretly playing aoe4, who know?

 

[LowEloNobody]

@Rorarimbo frequently checks these numbers.
Last we talked, AoE 2 had a lot of more unranked lobby entries, but AoE4 still has slightly more 1v1 ranked entries.
I think it was 46k entries for AoE4 and 38k for AoE 2.

However there's a clear downward trend in AoE 4's 1v1 ladder and a clear upward trend in AoE 2's 1v1 ladder.

I had checked these numbers before replying. As of this morning, here is where they stand, using the same methodology as Robo and others previously:
Of note, both 1v1 and TG numbers for AoE2 have actually increased since Robo's post, and numbers for AoE4 have declined across the board. AoE4 still has ~5k more 1v1 players on the 30 day ladder, but ~15k less TG players.
Given the significant lag (it takes 30 days to fall off of the ladder), I think it isn't a stretch to say that AoE2 is likely now ahead in 1v1 as well, given that AoE2 has gained ~12% in player count while AoE4 has lost ~13% in player count. (yes yes, steam only, but directionally useful)

AoE2:
39,681 1v1
64,667 TG
172,525 Unranked lobby

AoE4:
45,054 1v1
45,100 2V2
54,000 3V3
45,200 4V4
48,100 Average TG

 

[Rorarimbo]

I had checked these numbers before replying. As of this morning, here is where they stand, using the same methodology as Robo and others previously:
Of note, both 1v1 and TG numbers for AoE2 have actually increased since Robo's post, and numbers for AoE4 have declined across the board. AoE4 still has ~5k more 1v1 players on the 30 day ladder, but ~15k less TG players.
Given the significant lag (it takes 30 days to fall off of the ladder), I think it isn't a stretch to say that AoE2 is likely now ahead in 1v1 as well, given that AoE2 has gained ~12% in player count while AoE4 has lost ~13% in player count. (yes yes, steam only, but directionally useful)

AoE2:
39,681 1v1
64,667 TG
172,525 Unranked lobby

AoE4:
45,054 1v1
45,100 2V2
54,000 3V3
45,200 4V4
48,100 Average TG

The problem with comparing TG matchmaking is this split between 2v2; 3v3;4v4 in Aoe4 as we don't know what is the overlap between them. In any case, the entries should be the biggest number 54k plus accounts that may not be in that 3v3 ranking. Unfortunately, this 172,525 number is not being updated for more than a week now for some reason so we don't know what the actual number is right now in this "unraked" AoE2 DE ladder. In any case AoE2 has had an advantage here for some time.

Other than that yes the 1v1 ladder is the last stand for AoE4 right now and it looks like it will not hold for long. Last Saturday there were 47637 entries there right now there are 45044 (-2593 in 10 days). In the same period 1v1 ladder entrances for AoE2 have increased from 38410 to 39676 (+1266 in the same period)

 

[Tempires]

I had checked these numbers before replying. As of this morning, here is where they stand, using the same methodology as Robo and others previously:
Of note, both 1v1 and TG numbers for AoE2 have actually increased since Robo's post, and numbers for AoE4 have declined across the board. AoE4 still has ~5k more 1v1 players on the 30 day ladder, but ~15k less TG players.
Given the significant lag (it takes 30 days to fall off of the ladder), I think it isn't a stretch to say that AoE2 is likely now ahead in 1v1 as well, given that AoE2 has gained ~12% in player count while AoE4 has lost ~13% in player count. (yes yes, steam only, but directionally useful)

AoE2:
39,681 1v1
64,667 TG
172,525 Unranked lobby

AoE4:
45,054 1v1
45,100 2V2
54,000 3V3
45,200 4V4
48,100 Average TG

is unranked updated again?

 

[IYIyTh]

The problem with comparing TG matchmaking is this split between 2v2; 3v3;4v4 in Aoe4 as we don't know what is the overlap between them. In any case, the entries should be the biggest number 54k plus accounts that may not be in that 3v3 ranking. Unfortunately, this 172,525 number is not being updated for more than a week now for some reason so we don't know what the actual number is right now in this "unraked" AoE2 DE ladder. In any case AoE2 has had an advantage here for some time.

Other than that yes the 1v1 ladder is the last stand for AoE4 right now and it looks like it will not hold for long. Last Saturday there were 47637 entries there right now there are 45044 (-2593 in 10 days). In the same period 1v1 ladder entrances for AoE2 have increased from 38410 to 39676 (+1266 in the same period)

Keep in mind, this is not factoring other platforms, et al. Whether it's userpatch, HD, or other iterations. Not even close. Strictly a 2 DE / 4 comparison doesn't begin to show the whole picture.

 

[LowEloNobody]

Keep in mind, this is not factoring other platforms, et al. Whether it's userpatch, HD, or other iterations. Not even close. Strictly a 2 DE / 4 comparison doesn't begin to show the whole picture.

This is a fair point, but I think the primary comparison is between AoE2DE and AoE4. It's the most conservative case, and even then AoE2 has consistently better metrics player base wise.
RIP to the HD and voobly players that no one really cares about anymore 111

 

[NKamayuk]

I had checked these numbers before replying. As of this morning, here is where they stand, using the same methodology as Robo and others previously:
Of note, both 1v1 and TG numbers for AoE2 have actually increased since Robo's post, and numbers for AoE4 have declined across the board. AoE4 still has ~5k more 1v1 players on the 30 day ladder, but ~15k less TG players.
Given the significant lag (it takes 30 days to fall off of the ladder), I think it isn't a stretch to say that AoE2 is likely now ahead in 1v1 as well, given that AoE2 has gained ~12% in player count while AoE4 has lost ~13% in player count. (yes yes, steam only, but directionally useful)

AoE2:
39,681 1v1
64,667 TG
172,525 Unranked lobby

AoE4:
45,054 1v1
45,100 2V2
54,000 3V3
45,200 4V4
48,100 Average TG

Taking the average for teamgames in AOE4 really doesn't make any sense, anyone that plays any of the 3 modes is a team game player. So every one of the 54k 3v3 players would be considered as ranked in the AOE2 TG ladder, for example.

So the number of team game players is between the maximum (54k) and the sum (147.3k), depending on how much overlap there is.

Taking a quick random sample of the players (10 latest of each of the three modes), on average, each team game player is ranked in 2.1 different modes. So, we have approximately 147.3k/2.1 = 70.14k team game players in ranked AOE4. That would also line up with what you'd expect from the 1v1 numbers.