Nili announces NC4 - $100K AoE4 LAN

[Tempires]

That is the very crux of the matter. Aoe2 had over $600k in prize money in 2021...will that grow this year or has the pie stayed the same size and now aoe4 gets a sizable chunk of that? We can only wait and see since we have no tournament calendar and almost zero communication regarding the year ahead.

Let me turn this question around on you a little bit: if these RTS "legends" (as so many are quick to describe them as) weren't earning any money from the games they played (and with the exception of marinelord they were not), why didn't they dip their toes into aoe2 and try to compete there? Probably because it would take 15+ months of dedication to even sniff the top 16 whereas with aoe4 they can jump in and compete right away because it's a brand new game.

MS only sponsored aoe2 for about 325k in 2021 if i looked right ,only S-tier checked .Half money was given to RBWs and it is possible MS only gave money because RB came to scene(meaning this money is not necessary expected unless other big company comes to host tournaments). I estimated 50k for KOTD4 as prinztech and MsHuggah sponsored it too. At this point of aoe4 timeline Aoe2 has got more money from MS than aoe4 (N4C is in march so not counted)

another answer: We are talking about growth not being as big because some money is going to aoe4. they never considered going pro or full time stream it before aoe4 release, they only came after aoe4 was launched meaning aoe2 wasn't relevant enough for them. Instead Aoe4 got them to here and to stay playing AoE bringing new audience with then which is only net positive as they would most likely play other games without aoe4. Aoe2 hasn't really got new top caster or pro in years(no growth on top).

 

[LowEloNobody]

Man, so many posts in this thread wouldn't exist if we had a tournament calendar, or at least more transparency around future tournaments.

I understand Nilis statement that it isn't a priority for Microsoft, but maybe the tournament coordinator should explain that it needs to be a higher priority

 

[TheShaunPlays]

Man, so many posts in this thread wouldn't exist if we had a tournament calendar, or at least more transparency around future tournaments.

I understand Nilis statement that it isn't a priority for Microsoft, but maybe the tournament coordinator should explain that it needs to be a higher priority

Agree,even if it's not official a community calendar would work, remove the NDAs (if there are any) and add soft announcements for tournaments early before the big hype posts as it gets closer. I'm sure someone will make a google calendar or spread sheet for all the soft announcements. I don't understand the gatekeeping around tournaments, AOE2 is the only eSport I watch but if you look at traditional sports, tournaments are announced years in advance. They don't wait to tell you where the next Olympics will be until after the current one expires (not the same thing but the simplest analogy I could find).

I feel like the announcement schedule atm is short sighted, look for other ways to market the game and hype it up other than the announcement. I also feel a calendar would help people keep up. I'm a nerd with no life and I still can't keep up with it all.

A central calendar might help viewership long term as there's a one stop shop to see what you can watch. I run a small Facebook group for comp AOE2 and I was surprised by the amount of people who want to watch but have no idea comp tournaments are happening. Those people have fulltime jobs, sometimes kids and other life pressures, they can't spend time watching streams of LEL or ladder matches and following all the different organisers on twitter. Most don't even know AOEZone exists (even this is cluttered for them with all the post though)

There's a huge fanbase out there we can tap into but they aren't on AOEZone, following streamers on twitter or watching streams to catch announcements (a lot of people only want to watch tournaments, not streamers). Giving the casual fan a quick, easy and simple way to find these tournaments through a simple, easy to use and find calendar I think has a lot of potential to increase viewership.

 

[MaSmOrRa]

I respect that people enjoy AoE4 but I have a hard time believing anybody enjoys watching Aoe4. The spectator mode is garish and borderline unhelpful.

In my opinion getting a better spectator mode should be top 1 priority for N4C.

As far as I can see, in Age of Empires 4 score says very very little about who is winning, it keeps switching with no apparent reason...
And then, because we can't know at a glance how many villagers/military each player has, we're left in a position where we have no clue who's winning and who's losing...At least those of us who don't own the game, but want to give it a chance.

How can there be any tension in a watching experience if you don't even know who's winning and who's losing?! lol

 

[-R-]

I'm probably a bit late to the party, but I have an issue with the notion that MS will only fund S-tier events. How are TOs expected to put together S-tier events with no prizepool forthcoming? It's really hard to get top players to commit to events that do not have a big enough prizepool.

I know for a fact that clowns have reached out to MS for funding for MoA and for MoS, unsuccessfully. Both events ended up being clown community funded. Arena is the second most popular map in 1v1, and while Socotra is definitely a gimmicky map, that hasn't stopped MS from funding WWC, which has plenty of maps that are just as gimmicky. I've been told that BF players also reached out for funds for a BF event and, AFAIK, were also refused. BF is the most popular TG map in the game, with a dedicated community, yet they also had to go for a community funded event.

The prizepool for NAC4/N4C could've been cut to something still massive like 80k and there would've been enough money to match the prizepool raised by the community for all three events. This would've raised their profile and, who knows, maybe one or two of them could've qualified as S-tier with some extra community funds (I think the threshold is 15k or something). The only somewhat logical explanation for refusing to take a slice out of those 100k to fund other stuff is that Nili wants that big, fat number for his own tournament. It's a matter of prestige. This may sound like prejudice on my part but the fact that he's expecting to pay unsuccessful qualifiers to NAC with donation money (which I find absolutely shocking) points in that direction - he doesn't want to touch the 100k.

Finally, I believe he mentioned huehuecoyotl's WDC didn't get funding because it was too close to BoA. What kind of logic is that? For starters, Battle of Africa is literally the only regularly scheduled high level TG tournament this game has. We currently have a 5k TG tournament due to the generosity of a community member. If we want more TG events (and personally I do) then we need funding, because if the prizepool is going to be on the low side and on top of that it has to be split then there's even less of an incentive for good teams to sign up. But if he meant that the tournaments are too close in time to one another, then one of them, or both, could've been rescheduled. I'm sure huehuecoyotl, or any other TO, would've been willing to compromise a bit on dates in exchange for funding.

 

[longinator]

Small note: OGN's World Rumble has a $5.5k prize pool and is (fully?) funded by Microsoft. So no, its not only S-tier events.

 

[kw1k000000]

A single person with so much power and no accountability is never a good thing. It doesn't matter how some of you see @Nili_AoE as beacon of morality and he can do no wrong.

The fact is that he decided to allocate the biggest prize pool to his own event to boost his own steaming profile (currently avg 400 viewers) and invest that biggest prize pool in game which is failing while it just so happens to be the one which Nili is exclusively streaming and likes

 

[Tempires]

A single person with so much power and no accountability is never a good thing. It doesn't matter how some of you see Nili_AoE as beacon of morality and he can do no wrong.

The fact is that he decided to allocate the biggest prize pool to his own event to boost his own steaming profile (currently avg 400 viewers) and invest that biggest prize pool in game which is failing while it just so happens to be the one which Nili is exclusively streaming and likes

I am pretty sure he is acocuntable to MS for his job. second i repeat N4C is open streaming

 

[kalcium]

I'm probably a bit late to the party, but I have an issue with the notion that MS will only fund S-tier events. How are TOs expected to put together S-tier events with no prizepool forthcoming? It's really hard to get top players to commit to events that do not have a big enough prizepool.

I know for a fact that clowns have reached out to MS for funding for MoA and for MoS, unsuccessfully. Both events ended up being clown community funded. Arena is the second most popular map in 1v1, and while Socotra is definitely a gimmicky map, that hasn't stopped MS from funding WWC, which has plenty of maps that are just as gimmicky. I've been told that BF players also reached out for funds for a BF event and, AFAIK, were also refused. BF is the most popular TG map in the game, with a dedicated community, yet they also had to go for a community funded event.

The prizepool for NAC4/N4C could've been cut to something still massive like 80k and there would've been enough money to match the prizepool raised by the community for all three events. This would've raised their profile and, who knows, maybe one or two of them could've qualified as S-tier with some extra community funds (I think the threshold is 15k or something). The only somewhat logical explanation for refusing to take a slice out of those 100k to fund other stuff is that Nili wants that big, fat number for his own tournament. It's a matter of prestige. This may sound like prejudice on my part but the fact that he's expecting to pay unsuccessful qualifiers to NAC with donation money (which I find absolutely shocking) points in that direction - he doesn't want to touch the 100k.

Finally, I believe he mentioned huehuecoyotl's WDC didn't get funding because it was too close to BoA. What kind of logic is that? For starters, Battle of Africa is literally the only regularly scheduled high level TG tournament this game has. We currently have a 5k TG tournament due to the generosity of a community member. If we want more TG events (and personally I do) then we need funding, because if the prizepool is going to be on the low side and on top of that it has to be split then there's even less of an incentive for good teams to sign up. But if he meant that the tournaments are too close in time to one another, then one of them, or both, could've been rescheduled. I'm sure huehuecoyotl, or any other TO, would've been willing to compromise a bit on dates in exchange for funding.

Funding tournaments, like scientific and business projects fundings, are not community service. Funding agencies seeks deliverables that aligns with their current focus. In this case I would expect exposure and promotion of the franchise, especially aoe4. Sorry to say but smaller streamers simply don’t have nearly the same capacities as established streamers to reach these goals. Then they just make up excuses to decline the proposals.

Same logic applies to TG tournaments. If I have to invest 2 times more money on prizepool for the same amount of viewers and exposure as a 1v1 event, why don’t I just fund 2 separate 1v1 events?

From the business side I also highly doubt how aoe2 events would financially benefit MS as aoe4 events. Aoe2 player base is pretty stable. They just need routine events to keep us around for dlc sales. While you have much easier time scamming casual players to buy aoe4. Whether they stay active doesn’t matter. Hey, they’ve payed already.

If there are things the community wants that don’t align with the goal of MS tournament funding, it make sense that the community has to fund it to make it happen. Even in science it is the same way. If your research is good but not hot, you still have a really hard time to get recognised.

 

[XDDXOXO]

It's a matter of prestige. This may sound like prejudice on my part but the fact that he's expecting to pay unsuccessful qualifiers to NAC with donation money (which I find absolutely shocking) points in that direction - he doesn't want to touch the 100k.

Glad that you mentioned that and that it was not really discussed until now. I totally agree. You have 100k price pool, you want to give a few hundred dollars to the runner ups in the qualifier and then you plan to get it funded by the community? Wow!

 

[-R-]

Funding tournaments, like scientific and business projects fundings, are not community service. Funding agencies seeks deliverables that aligns with their current focus. In this case I would expect exposure and promotion of the franchise, especially aoe4. Sorry to say but smaller streamers simply don’t have nearly the same capacities as established streamers to reach these goals. Then they just make up excuses to decline the proposals.

Same logic applies to TG tournaments. If I have to invest 2 times more money on prizepool for the same amount of viewers and exposure as a 1v1 event, why don’t I just fund 2 separate 1v1 events?

From the business side I also highly doubt how aoe2 events would financially benefit MS as aoe4 events. Aoe2 player base is pretty stable. They just need routine events to keep us around for dlc sales. While you have much easier time scamming casual players to buy aoe4. Whether they stay active doesn’t matter. Hey, they’ve payed already.

If there are things the community wants that don’t align with the goal of MS tournament funding, it make sense that the community has to fund it to make it happen. Even in science it is the same way. If your research is good but not hot, you still have a really hard time to get recognised.

I don't think anyone's denying that from a business standpoint MS wants to pitch their new product to potential buyers, particularly since it has been quite dissappointing so far. The fact that the community has been actively funding these events is a testament to that fact - people know they can't just depend on Microsoft money to host tournaments. The main issue, I believe, is the bullshit answers we're getting, particularly coming from someone who was supposed to do the opposite of what he's doing (insert Anakin memes). If he's honest in his answers, then they don't make sense. If he's not, then I think people would very much rather he came out clean about it.

Regarding TG tournaments, your point doesn't really stand the evidence, so to speak. TG tournaments over the last few years have usually had a smaller prizepool than 1v1 tournaments. It just needs to be a respectable one (also, regarding this particular topic, those 100k could've been split into 2 AoE4 1v1 events just as well!).

As for your point about smaller streamers, first of all, we're talking about organising tournaments that will be casted by everyone, including bigger casters - it's not like a tournament organised by huehuecoyotl will be casted only on his [non-existent] channel and not on Memb's, T90's, etc. But, fundamentally, for all intents and purposes Nili is one of those "small streamers" at this point in time. Over the last month he's averaged ~300 viewers, a number boosted by AoE4 tournaments being played in that period. Of course, we're old enough (?) to know Nili's used to be a much bigger channel, that's why this looks a lot more like a Nili decision than a MS decision, especially given the fact that during a LAN event, even if the games are open for casting, the only channel with inside access, in-person interviews and any such perks will be Nili's. I don't know, maybe they gave Nili a million and he's gonna be organising 100k AoE4 events almost every month and he's actually not being selfish and greedy, but it doesn't really look like it.

 

[ponciliano]

Also qualifies after winning an S-Tier tournament on release week, meanwhile an S-Tier tournament is going on but the winner won't qualify.

But there's nothing wrong with a member of a clan being also a in a highly influential position within a company, suuuuuuure...

 

[malamadre]

I am pretty sure he is acocuntable to MS for his job. second i repeat N4C is open streaming

Bro it is a LAN. His channel will be the most benefited.

 

[MaSmOrRa]

especially given the fact that during a LAN event, even if the games are open for casting, the only channel with inside access, in-person interviews and any such perks will be Nili's.

Bro it is a LAN. His channel will be the most benefited.

Don't quote me on this, but I seem to remember Nili saying in his announcement the production company would provide all the channels interested in streaming the event a "clean feed".

So they would be able to stream player cameras, interviews, etc.

 

[malamadre]

Don't quote me on this, but I seem to remember Nili saying in his announcement the production company would provide all the channels interested in streaming the event a "clean feed".

So they would be able to stream player cameras, interviews, etc.

Fair enough

 

[-R-]

Don't quote me on this, but I seem to remember Nili saying in his announcement the production company would provide all the channels interested in streaming the event a "clean feed".

So they would be able to stream player cameras, interviews, etc.

I guess that's the most that can be done in this scenario (other channels still won't get to do any interviews/ask questions/whatever), and it's certainly better than nothing.

 

[Snizl]

I guess that's the most that can be done in this scenario (other channels still won't get to do any interviews/ask questions/whatever), and it's certainly better than nothing.

That is pretty damn good actually. Much more than we (understandably) got from RedBull. If that's really the case I think half the complaints here are pretty void...

 

[LeoMontero]

I am pretty sure he is acocuntable to MS for his job. second i repeat N4C is open streaming

it doesnt care if it is open stream or not, is his tournament, for a game that is already dying. he will be the biggest winer and you know that his chanel is declining because age 4.

 

[NKamayuk]

4th one, Nili is using GL HQ for the tournament, which he is affliated with.

Or, very realistically, it's a resource that Nili has access to for free when a slot is available as a GL team member. Since that's the primary purpose of the gaming house, it's made available to team members as required, for practice sessions before a tournament, and I wouldn't see why they wouldn't accept a slot to be taken to organize a tournament.

That's the primary gripe I have with this, there's just so many accusations here that are based on worst-case speculation without waiting for any more information to come out about the details.

And I mean, it is information that *will* come. For previous NACs, Nili made a complete list of sponsors and expenditure available, and he has clearly stated that that will also happen for N4C, once sponsorship deals with outside sponsors have been finalized in this case.

 

[huntskiki]

Or, very realistically, it's a resource that Nili has access to for free when a slot is available as a GL team member. Since that's the primary purpose of the gaming house, it's made available to team members as required, for practice sessions before a tournament, and I wouldn't see why they wouldn't accept a slot to be taken to organize a tournament.

That's the primary gripe I have with this, there's just so many accusations here that are based on worst-case speculation without waiting for any more information to come out about the details.

And I mean, it is information that *will* come. For previous NACs, Nili made a complete list of sponsors and expenditure available, and he has clearly stated that that will also be the case, once sponsorship deals with outside sponsors have been finalized in this case.

As I keep saying, that's the problem with conflicts of interest. We don't know if people are doing things because that's the best decision, or if the conflict is affecting things. For example, we don't know if Nili is using other funds to pay a "rental fee" to GL for using their venue, or what other benefits they might be getting (branding, promotion, etc.). It may be that they are getting no benefits, and this was just the best and cheapest way to do things, but because of the conflict, there will always be questions.

 

[NKamayuk]

As I keep saying, that's the problem with conflicts of interest. We don't know if people are doing things because that's the best decision, or if the conflict is affecting things. For example, we don't know if Nili is using other funds to pay a "rental fee" to GL for using their venue, or what other benefits they might be getting (branding, promotion, etc.). It may be that they are getting no benefits, and this was just the best and cheapest way to do things, but because of the conflict, there will always be questions.

Unless that question is explicitly addressed by the cost breakdown, which Nili made for all previous NACs and has stated he will make for N4C once sponsorship deals are finalized. One could, you know, wait for that.

 

[amazing_knight]

Unless that question is explicitly addressed by the cost breakdown, which Nili made for all previous NACs and has stated he will make for N4C once sponsorship deals are finalized. One could, you know, wait for that.

Is someone auditing that? If not, it doesn't mean much.

 

[thenayancat]

I find it disgusting and pathetic that people are trashing Nili, mocking him for being a "failure" (I'm sure people who say that are above him in the leaderboard) and saying there's no work in organising a tournament. Really leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

 

[megabomberman]

A single person with so much power and no accountability is never a good thing. It doesn't matter how some of you see @Nili_AoE as beacon of morality and he can do no wrong.

The fact is that he decided to allocate the biggest prize pool to his own event to boost his own steaming profile (currently avg 400 viewers) and invest that biggest prize pool in game which is failing while it just so happens to be the one which Nili is exclusively streaming and likes

There is accountability, do you think Microsoft don't sign off on these investments? Do you think they'd let Nili get away with funding a 100k Nili v Kasva showmatch? Nili is doing exactly what MS want, credit to him for fronting up and being a massive mudguard for aoe2 community discontent.

 

[Philippe le Bon]

I find it disgusting and pathetic that people are trashing Nili, mocking him for being a "failure" (I'm sure people who say that are above him in the leaderboard) and saying there's no work in organising a tournament. Really leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

go brush your teeth