Nili announces NC4 - $100K AoE4 LAN

[doacid]

but there is also just bashing Nili now and the line has been crossed long ago

Well, this is Aoezone. You get instant hate just for simple things like playing aoe4, liking a certain frowned upon strategy or simply for farting louder than usual.
This conflict of interest was an armed bomb that was waiting to explode since the day Nili announced his job at MS. He totally knew this.
People who have beef with him were just waiting for such occasion. And to be honest you rarely get better ammunition. If anything I had expected even more ridiculous hate 11. I'm sure it'll keep coming though.

every single tournament from now on will raise the same question, if the funding is appropriate, if it wouldn't get less or more based on the connection of organizer and Nili, if it's spent on the correct game and if the funding isn't influenced by settings that Nili likes/dislikes.

Yep, and there's just no way around it. Even if Nili was the second coming of Jesus, perfect in every way and his mission on Earth was to spread love and understanding... there will still be doubts cause that's the position he's in. Given the conflict of interest there will always be legitimate concerns and he'll have to always deal with this criticism, that's the path he's chosen.

My guess is that eventually we'll get used to it. It's not the end of the world really. We can look at it from the following perspective. MS needs that job position covered, they need someone organizing tournaments, allocating funds, etc. Someone has to do it.

Now, it doesn't really matter which person they'd pick, there would always be doubts.
A very typical thing a big company would do in this situation is to have someone already working for the company to do the job. If instead of Nili there was a random guy with no previous aoe experiece (like Riley for example) doing the job... do you think there wouldn't be doubts about which game is preferred, or which streamer or settings are getting better funds?

It'd be exactly the same because this person would still have his preferences. He would still have a better relation with some streamers than others. He'd still like better some settings over others. He'd still like more one game over the other. He'd still make better friendships with some players than with others. Basically he'd still be human.

There really is no way around it. A company is constantly pouring money on a game we love and someone has to do that job. So all things considered I don't think Nili is the worst for that position, not at all.

 

[Kaschperili]

A Microsoft tournament coordinator should not be allowed to host tournaments himself. The conflict of interest is too big otherwise.

 

[oozkan]

Masmorra's interview with Nili was really well done, definitely recommended to watch if you want more information.
Also, I really didn't know that Nili has so much power regarding MS funds and I'm still shocked how bad that situation is for AoE. MS is by far the biggest sponsor of tournaments, but also the only really major one right now (with all respect to the few individual sponsors spending couple of k on tournaments).

So the situation is, that Nili controls 90%+ of tournament funds right now. Sure, there's 1st) major conflict of interests as Nili from MS is giving funds to Nili - tournament host. Ok, part of the budget is spent on Nili's events (which makes sense up to a point, 100k for 8 player tournament is over that point though).

Then there's another - 2nd) conflict of interests where Nili from MS is allocating the remaining funds between AoE IV and AoE II. Everyday it's more and more obvious that IIs overtook IVs - this isn't personal bias or feeling how good AoE IV will be in 1 year, those are pure numbers. It's less than 3 months since it's release btw. There's extremelly low chance IVs would be the more popular game in any point in the future from now on. However, Nili likes IV more now, meaning that big part of the funds are still going into this direction. Again, it would make partially sense, but so far it seems that IVs are getting far more from the remaining budget then they should given it's rapidly declining numbers. So, take another big portion of the budget and we're left with Budget for AoE II non-Nili events.

And then there's 1 more - 3rd) conflict of interests where Nili is obviously influenced by his personal preference as a player. Taking this extremelly far, we can end with 20k DM World Cup, 5k KotH, 20k DM 2v2 tournament..

I don't want this post to be critical towards Nili, he was my favourite streamer before he switched to AoE IV and I enjoyed many of his events, and I believe I will enjoy some his AoE II events in the future too. But my point is, that due to Nili's extreme power when it comes to AoE right nown + his conflicts of interests, every single tournament from now on will raise the same question, if the funding is appropriate, if it wouldn't get less or more based on the connection of organizer and Nili, if it's spent on the correct game and if the funding isn't influenced by settings that Nili likes/dislikes.

4th one, Nili is using GL HQ for the tournament, which he is affliated with.

 

[Qulala]

so much hating and bashing just for the sake of it, just breath slowly and think for yourself if it is really needed to get so personal and attack someone:


For me 100k for a AOE4 tournament is very logical, i was even surprised it wasnt more (like 200k or more), its a new game after all, you want to make a big entrance, just like AOE 2 had in 2000 with also 100k,

historicly 3 people organise the big tournaments in aoe 2, Nili, Memb and T90, they get the most money from MS and get the most viewers,
thye used to organise it by own funds and sponsors and since a few years MS is active again and they get a lot more from MS, 1 of them, Nili in this case is alsovery good at networking and getting to know the right people to invest more time and funds in a game Redbull/MS/others.

for which we should be thankfull imo, After years of investing he got the offer to do kind of the same job but more formal, and getting paid for it. and ensuring AoE2 still gets the attention and money for aoe2 and aoe4 to host tournaments for us to enjoy in the years to come.. Thats just how it works in a tight small community and a biger party joins again (MS). They reach out for a trustable person with who they can communicate in a good way. and i still trust nili that he tries his best to keep it fair for everyone.

with hosting the 100k tournament himself i think it cost him even more energy, time and money than just let another party do it. and as far as i understand the other 2 big organisers were not interested. and the tournament is open streaming afaik.

smaller or newer organisations/individuals get money from MS too since 2 years and eventualy they also will get the reputation to host the real big ones, look at Lidakor and others who didnt belong to the big 3 but are getting there.

so in conlcusion: a 100k aoe4 tournament and in this case at Nili seems only logical if you think for a bit. and the involvement of GL and hosting it (i think?) is just a nice addition too and nice that they find that a party to share in the LAN costs.

TLDR: less hate, think more, be more friendly,

 

[DracKeN]

Tournaments are marketing for the games. AoE4 is still new and as you said, the numbers don't look great. So it does make sense to give it more money than AoE2, trying to improve those numbers. Only up to a certain point of course, if it's a dead game after 5 years you don't have to keep it on life support with inflated prizepools.

I agree, although I don't believe this will ever change the decreasing number of players. However, such argument would be nice to hear from Nili himself. Instead you hear he has 'trust for the game' and that it's '50/50 which game will be stronger in 1 year..' If he means those things seriously, I'm not sure how much he's in contact with reality...

Second argument he was using is that there was no interest in hosting AoE II events from tournament hosts and that basically everyone who asked for MS funds got them. That's a lie. When Masmorra asked specifically about some events that asked for the support and didn't get it, there was still little to no explanation.

And last thing, if you announce AoE IV with 100k prize pool - again, just talking prize pool, not the total costs - it would be viewed way better, if people would know that there are also AoE II S tiers planned and cca. their prize pool. It would significantly decrease the tension between AoE II and AoE IV. Yes, BoA will likely happen, you'd also assume HC will happen. However, Nili said he already knows he'll play in 6 AoE II events this year. All we need is tournament calendar. And the person operating with a budget which likely exceedes 1 000 000 $ doesn't have enough power to implement 1 very very basic feature? That's just weird.

 

[sheeesh]

To me seems like a big prize LAN tournament is what AoE4 needed at the moment to establish a solid pro-player scene and guarantee its activity during buggy times. Nilli is setting a huge foundation stone on this not quite finished structure, whether the structure will ever reach its planned final shape is another story. Of course I am salty-down here, salt is a way of life- watching that stone placed on a structure with an architecture I don't like instead of renovating our sweet home but Nilli has placed already too many stones before to be hating him.It is his decision to walk down another path and my decision to not follow down there.
What is true though,is that the conflicts of interest mentioned do exist and bring clouds to a new community. These clouds need to be driven away before they build up and bring a storm.AoE4 has serious potential of giving in-community drama if it keeps alive.

 

[Tendo]

Second argument he was using is that there was no interest in hosting AoE II events from tournament hosts and that basically everyone who asked for MS funds got them. That's a lie. When Masmorra asked specifically about some events that asked for the support and didn't get it, there was still little to no explanation.

Sounds like you didn't see the interview, he answered that question that only after his Post asking for AoE2 Tournaments there were so many that he declined some (and also explained why f.e the 3vs3 Tournament by Hueyo didn't get funding), but before his Post basically evryone who asked got funding.

And the person operating with a budget which likely exceedes 1 000 000 $ doesn't have enough power to implement 1 very very basic feature? That's just weird.

He also explained that one.
It's definitely a bad thing that we're still lacking a Tournament Calendar, but who's fault is that?
I doubt it's Nilis fault since it's one of the first things he wanted to do after getting the job.

 

[Potkeny]

and also explained why f.e the 3vs3 Tournament by Hueyo didn't get funding

But forgot to mention that "MS" (or Nili? Who knows..) wants to fund only S-Tier tournaments, and we don't really know what exactly is an "S-Tier" tournament, considering having top10 players in it and asking for more money to make it S-Tier is not enough for them.

 

[SuperskinnyBLS]

what are the yearly DLCs which we are all purchasing which contain 2/4 pointless civs?

They are like wheelbarrow / hand cart for Vikings - a 1 time thing while skins/microtransactions ( loot boxes ) guarantee developers constant income.

 

[-R-]

Just wait until they get rid of the mod centre for most stuff and offer civ-specific skins and **** like that

 

[warownia]

Just wait until they get rid of the mod centre for most stuff and offer civ-specific skins and **** like that

if they would be purerly cosmetic dlcs (but like what u mentioned not like small trees) it would be imo much better solution than adding more and more civs into a competetive gameplay. Many people say that big part of aoe2 playerbase are single player players. Why not make campaign dlcs (both sp and coops) with modified civs (see Tomislav custom campaign) instead of adding them to multi?

 

[-R-]

if they would be purerly cosmetic one (but smth like buddhist monk skin for rajas civs not like small trees) would be imo much better solution than adding more and more civr.

Oh I agree, and in fairness I wouldn't mind that much, but I very much prefer the mod centre and as long as it exists skins for sale are a no-go

 

[damdres]

If Nili returns the money to AOE II Everything will be fine. I think

 

[Philippe le Bon]

If Nili returns the money to AOE II Everything will be fine. I think

He will never change anything now that the trailer and announcement are out.

If there's one respectable/likable thing about this noob, it's that the more he's bashed for something, the more commited he is to do that something, which is a great quality in my book.

We're actually extremely similar in that regard, as much as we don't get along.
I wish this N4C takes place as he intents. Like I wrote earlier, I just want a AoE2 tournament with an even bigger PP to occur this year.

 

[Halleju]

I don't even know whats there to discuss, really.
A tournament coordinator for Forgotten Empires moves a big part of the tournament money MS giving them to his own tournament, so he can benefit directly from it. Views, subs, donations. Especially, cause his numbers dropped significantly over switching games.
There is no conflict of interest. It's simply disgusting.

 

[amazing_knight]

I think Nili is right when he says that his allocating funds to Aoe4 tournament will not affect Aoe2.

But for different reasons than he thinks.

The real reason it won't affect Aoe2 in the long run is because Aoe4 is simply a shitty game compared to Aoe2. You can throw $500k on a shitty game and people won't play it. Many people would rather play BF than play Aoe4. This "8 player" invitational will not make the game grow anyway.

Nili is just abusing the situation for personal gains, which is of course unethical, but hey, that's what most corporates do. And after all, he is a corporate employee working for MS and his interests.

All this optimism he is showing for Aoe4 is either delusional or just fake. He'll himself be back to Aoe2 within a year after Aoe4 is done for. Till then, he just wants to make some personal gains it seems.

 

[Tempires]

All we need is tournament calendar. And the person operating with a budget which likely exceedes 1 000 000 $ doesn't have enough power to implement 1 very very basic feature? That's just weird.

Masmorra interview talked about tournament calendar. https://youtu.be/X-Ikn_cR6XA?t=2811

1.Calendar must be hosted on official website which isn't on nili's decision
2. Nili says tournament calendar is not high priority. Also it's not understood why Liquipedia is enough.
3. Tournament organizers who got sponsored know all planned events.


See interview at 39 minute to hear whole tournament and funding talk

 

[JUDAS]

Personally I dont care if AoE4 receives one million dollars for tournaments in one year (It continues to be the unfinished, lacking, buggy game that it is). I dont care about AoE4 after 15 days of its release, but what I think is very harmful to the AoE2 scene is that it doesnt have a preassigned budget so Nili can do whatever he wants with the MS money for the franchise, and for all of us is clear which game is his favorite.

 

[ltm]

Well Nili brought the drama onto himself. He always knew this might be seen as a problem and acknowledged that when he started working for MS.

No matter how trustworthy someone may or may not be, there will always be debate in a situation like this. It's unavoidable.

He 100% had to expect it, so i guess he doesn't mind the drama.

 

[Monocle]

Now just wait for gl to fire Nili

 

[Progeusz]

As not so wise man would say, yikers.

money laundering

 

[malamadre]

Nili is wrong in his interview. By not giving money to Aoe2 tournament funding he is hurting aoe2. He is affecting its growth.
Aoe2 was growing consistently for so many years now. The fact is that the grow of aoe2 gave MS the opportunity to make the HD version of the game, then the Definitive Editions and Aoe4. To maximize profit they need to push aoe2. AOE4 exists because of the revival of Aoe2.

So if they want to keep milking the franchise the best approach is to push for the growth of aoe2 as a priority. Not giving 100k and hosting a LAN tournament for a unfinished game. They'd better spent that money making the game decent.

 

[Beanslinger]

I respect that people enjoy playing AoE4, but I have a hard time believing anybody enjoys watching Aoe4. The spectator mode is garish and borderline unhelpful.

 

[Tempires]

Nili is wrong in his interview. By not giving money to Aoe2 tournament funding he is hurting aoe2. He is affecting its growth.
Aoe2 was growing consistently for so many years now. The fact is that the grow of aoe2 gave MS the opportunity to make the HD version of the game, then the Definitive Editions and Aoe4. To maximize profit they need to push aoe2. AOE4 exists because of the revival of Aoe2.

So if they want to keep milking the franchise the best approach is to push for the growth of aoe2 as a priority. Not giving 100k and hosting a LAN tournament for a unfinished game. They'd better spent that money making the game decent.

1. Then same way giving money aoe2 hurts aoe1 aom aoe3 aoe4 too.
2. Why aoe2 should get all money and other games none?
3. If MS is giving more money to AoE every year, is it really away from aoe2 if aoe2 is still getting more money than ever before?
4. Is aoe2 really growing or are people who already own the game playing?
5. Do you think AoE2 gets more new players to aoe series vs Aoe4?
6. how aoe4+Aoe2 have now double aoe2 playerbase from nowhere?
7. Why marinelord,grubby,demuslim and etc. were playing other games before aoe4 launch if aoe2 was so good game and got about +90% aoe money?

 

[Giuseppe551]

If MS is giving more money to AoE every year, is it really away from aoe2 if aoe2 is still getting more money than ever before?

That is the very crux of the matter. Aoe2 had over $600k in prize money in 2021...will that grow this year or has the pie stayed the same size and now aoe4 gets a sizable chunk of that? We can only wait and see since we have no tournament calendar and almost zero communication regarding the year ahead.

Why marinelord,grubby,demuslim and etc. were playing other games before aoe4 launch if aoe2 was so good game and got about +90%% aoe money?

Let me turn this question around on you a little bit: if these RTS "legends" (as so many are quick to describe them as) weren't earning any money from the games they played (and with the exception of marinelord they were not), why didn't they dip their toes into aoe2 and try to compete there? Probably because it would take 15+ months of dedication to even sniff the top 16 whereas with aoe4 they can jump in and compete right away because it's a brand new game.