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AOE-II DE New redbull Wololoo coming?

  • Thread starter FinlandTempires
  • Start date May 1, 2022
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ArgentinaNicov

Two handed swordman
Apr 27, 2012
1,734
5,838
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Italy
twitch.tv
  • May 2, 2022
  • #26
DracKeN said:
You're losing crucial time for scouting and decision making. Which is simply better for players who will play according to their 1 scenario and worse for players who want to be creative and adjust their plans. I'm all up for DWL on say Islands or TI where the game plan is quite straight forward. Can see it on Arabia and open maps. But against mixing it to maps heavily about decision making or scouting, such as Arena, MR, etc.
Click to expand...

I have always been able to spot the 5 relics then come back to lure deers everytime I played arena in DWL. What else do you need to find with your scout? You can't see how many vils on stone/gold your opponent has. And you can spot a trush by checking if his score drops 50 points. If it takes 12 minutes to decide your plan then the problem is not a 9 vils start.
 
Last edited: May 2, 2022
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SuperskinnyBLS

SwedenSuperskinnyBLS

Champion
Dec 30, 2016
2,174
6,027
128
Sweden
  • May 2, 2022
  • #27
EW is more entertaining to watch than DWL, I don't care about players' experience, they will participate in any condiitons set by Red Bull.
 
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L

LithuaniaLokalo

Well-Known Member
Nov 4, 2021
289
487
68
  • May 2, 2022
  • #28
DracKeN said:
You're losing crucial time for scouting and decision making. Which is simply better for players who will play according to their 1 scenario and worse for players who want to be creative and adjust their plans. I'm all up for DWL on say Islands or TI where the game plan is quite straight forward. Can see it on Arabia and open maps. But against mixing it to maps heavily about decision making or scouting, such as Arena, MR, etc.
Click to expand...
You start with bit more explored area around tc to compensate a bit. Also you can't scout that much, I kind of find it quite lame saying you need to scout more in arena than in arabia. The only thing that makes sense is less time to decide what you want to do and run it in your mind how it might work out. However that goes for everyone, so not sure if that's a big of a downside.

Also guys, I do understand there is similarity to DWL and EW due they both have different start, however they are hardly even comparable. EW completely avoids not only one age, but also gives you quite decent eco running, which kind of lets you skip half of feudal as well, where people usually do just few troops and wall and go castle age asap(If we speak about Runestones, in maps like land madness can be different story). I like EW, but it changes game A LOT.

While I can see some good points from Myth, as some bonuses might give little less, even celt lumberjacks bonus will give bit less value due less time cutting. So there are some little differences, although don't think 20-30 resources there or here means changes things drastically, people would adjust fast.

Here is a sample of a start of the game from youtube. Also things like of how much extra exploration there should be always could be adjusted if that is too much or not enough. But usually it just seems people are to stubborn to even think about a change, not like there are real proper issues to do that.
1651496447748.png
 
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crazyyoco

Sloveniacrazyyoco

Active Member
Oct 2, 2019
43
67
33
  • May 2, 2022
  • #29
Nicov said:
What's the difference with a 3 vils start? You just send 6 to sheep and 3 to wood and save 2:30 or 3 minutes of your life
Click to expand...
isnt that 2.30 or 3 min of ingame time ? So basicly about a minute and a bit of real time ?
 
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LithuaniaLokalo

Well-Known Member
Nov 4, 2021
289
487
68
  • May 2, 2022
  • #30
crazyyoco said:
isnt that 2.30 or 3 min of ingame time ? So basicly about a minute and a bit of real time ?
Click to expand...
yes, 2.5min in game, ~1.5min in rl
 
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[KoBHV]venivero

Germany[KoBHV]venivero

Well Known Pikeman
May 13, 2015
120
335
78
  • May 2, 2022
  • #31
Just tweeted:
@redbullgaming Without any ulterior motives, I wanted to mention how cool people are who push old games with a great community, just like AoE2 for example.
And got a like back! So 100%, no daut, age2 confirmed 11
 
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N

ArgentinaNicov

Two handed swordman
Apr 27, 2012
1,734
5,838
118
30
Italy
twitch.tv
  • May 2, 2022
  • #32
DracKeN said:
I understand you don't know anything about Arena as you don't play the map, however the map is maybe more complex with significantly more options than you think.

So again, DWL is great on most water maps. I can see it on Arabia and open maps. I significantly prefer it over EW and I can easily see DWL as the future standard. And yes, it will likely be standard on every map, but at the same time, I don't think it's suiting every map the same.
Click to expand...

Ok. Then explain me why it makes such a big difference. You haven't done that with this post other than some funny comment about my knowledge of the game which im not gonna bother to reply.
 
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L

United KingdomLankbouv

Known Member
Sep 16, 2019
79
330
58
  • May 2, 2022
  • #33
If Redbull make an Aoe2 tournament it will be the final nail in competitive Aoe4's coffin. Not to say it can't survive but it will be like Aoe3. Aoe2 will win the battle for competitive supremacy.
 
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SuperskinnyBLS

SwedenSuperskinnyBLS

Champion
Dec 30, 2016
2,174
6,027
128
Sweden
  • May 2, 2022
  • #34
Lankbouv said:
If Redbull make an Aoe2 tournament it will be the final nail in competitive Aoe4's coffin. Not to say it can't survive but it will be like Aoe3. Aoe2 will win the battle for competitive supremacy.
Click to expand...
Is it the right time to discuss dynasties?
 
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L

UnknownLeoMontero

Halberdier
Aug 24, 2012
397
543
93
  • May 2, 2022
  • #35
Nicov said:
Redbull with DWL format is the dream
Click to expand...
dream is red bull funding a big LAN team tournament and people be able to asist
 
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crazyyoco

Sloveniacrazyyoco

Active Member
Oct 2, 2019
43
67
33
  • May 2, 2022
  • #36
Lokalo said:
yes, 2.5min in game, ~1.5min in rl
Click to expand...
so game should be changed from what we played for a long time so we can shave off 1.5 min real time ?
 
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M

Isle of ManMuscleChamp

Halberdier
Nov 5, 2019
281
852
98
  • May 2, 2022
  • #37
to be fair you have to have a pretty high iq to understand arena
 
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T

United StatesThe Bloodless

Halberdier
Jan 27, 2020
779
961
98
  • May 2, 2022
  • #38
Nicov said:
Ok. Then explain me why it makes such a big difference. You haven't done that with this post other than some funny comment about my knowledge of the game which im not gonna bother to reply.
Click to expand...
Not him but maybe I can give it a shot. You might go for a monk rush very fast if you spot your own gold being very far forward and your enemy base very close to your base. With DWL you have no time to decide the build order of all to food or a few to wood very early. You have to move the 3 to wood or to food instantly before scouting a single thing. Therefore this game mode made a strategic decision into a coin flip. Not the worst thing ever but it's a bit more luck based.

Edit: by the way, this only refers to Arena. I don't know how or if Ara would be changed at all by dwl. Also, let me say on topic that I would much rather see / play dwl than ew. Unfortunately though, I bet red bull won't change.
 
Last edited: May 2, 2022
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L

LithuaniaLokalo

Well-Known Member
Nov 4, 2021
289
487
68
  • May 2, 2022
  • #39
crazyyoco said:
so game should be changed from what we played for a long time so we can shave off 1.5 min real time ?
Click to expand...
Well you can feel quite a lot it when you watch a game even though it seems very little on paper. If you play 10 games per day, it's like one extra short game, same with tournaments.
 
L

Unknownlecracheursagacite

Longswordman
May 1, 2020
3,086
2,758
113
  • May 3, 2022
  • #40
The Bloodless said:
Not him but maybe I can give it a shot. You might go for a monk rush very fast if you spot your own gold being very far forward and your enemy base very close to your base. With DWL you have no time to decide the build order of all to food or a few to wood very early. You have to move the 3 to wood or to food instantly before scouting a single thing. Therefore this game mode made a strategic decision into a coin flip. Not the worst thing ever but it's a bit more luck based.

Edit: by the way, this only refers to Arena. I don't know how or if Ara would be changed at all by dwl. Also, let me say on topic that I would much rather see / play dwl than ew. Unfortunately though, I bet red bull won't change.
Click to expand...
Can you explain the BO vill by vill to make this clearer?
 
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x0r6zt

Australiax0r6zt

Known Member
Feb 5, 2020
53
109
48
  • May 3, 2022
  • #41
DWL start on arena and other maps = less starting sheep = big nerf to Gurjaras :cry: pay-to-lose
 
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R

Lithuaniarmcoo

Two handed swordman
Apr 13, 2012
2,427
1,532
118
Lithuania
  • May 3, 2022
  • #42
lecracheursagacite said:
Can you explain the BO vill by vill to make this clearer?
Click to expand...
Just a few examples, 21+2 FC with smush involves only 2 villagers on wood until clicking up, and food management is extremely crucial to pull a build order, as well as previously mentioned point of seeing your map. Cuman Feudal TC boom is the only other build I can think off top of my head that is influenced by it. However I've played the showmatch with 9 vil start and I'll say I don't find a problem for it on Arena. (Obviously EW on Arena would be absolutely horrible idea)
 
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G

United StatesGiuseppe551

Halberdier
Feb 20, 2019
229
895
98
  • May 3, 2022
  • #43
Regarding the RM/EW debate, couldn't broadcasters simply jump into the game around min 6-7 instead of right at the start? Spend a minute or two talking about maps/civs and then you're into the feudal age action before you know it. No change for the players, no balance issues, and viewers don't have to watch the early dark age. I suppose the one counter argument is that something "exciting" like killing a boar with TC happens in 1/100 pro games, but even then you could have an admin let the caster know when something like that happens so it could be relayed to the viewers.
 
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M

Isle of ManMuscleChamp

Halberdier
Nov 5, 2019
281
852
98
  • May 3, 2022
  • #44
leave dark age alone
 
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Huehuecoyotl22

DenmarkHuehuecoyotl22

Champion
Jun 10, 2012
16,871
5,812
128
  • May 3, 2022
  • #45
Giuseppe551 said:
Regarding the RM/EW debate, couldn't broadcasters simply jump into the game around min 6-7 instead of right at the start? Spend a minute or two talking about maps/civs and then you're into the feudal age action before you know it. No change for the players, no balance issues, and viewers don't have to watch the early dark age. I suppose the one counter argument is that something "exciting" like killing a boar with TC happens in 1/100 pro games, but even then you could have an admin let the caster know when something like that happens so it could be relayed to the viewers.
Click to expand...
Often 4-6 in-game minutes are already reached when a caster finishes introducing players, talking about map and civilisation matchup.
They can even talk more about the tournament, the teams' previous results, etc. There is definitely something to cover less eventful starts.
 
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HongeyKong

Hong KongHongeyKong

Champion
Dec 11, 2019
2,282
3,690
128
  • May 3, 2022
  • #46
I believe IF theres no down time between games / sets, it should be fairly easy to fill the first 6 minutes with analysis / some random stuff. Problem is
(1) Most of the time those things have already been used to fill the gap
(2) Ordinary map designs result predictable civ picks
(3) Not having civ drafts in some tourneys leads to repetitive civ match ups, meaning map gen becomes the only thing to analyze
 
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willdbeast

United Kingdomwilldbeast

Longswordman
Nov 10, 2018
258
1,031
108
  • May 3, 2022
  • #47
HongeyKong said:
I believe IF theres no down time between games / sets, it should be fairly easy to fill the first 6 minutes with analysis / some random stuff. Problem is
(1) Most of the time those things have already been used to fill the gap
(2) Ordinary map designs result predictable civ picks
(3) Not having civ drafts in some tourneys leads to repetitive civ match ups, meaning map gen becomes the only thing to analyze
Click to expand...
A react isn't enough to signify how strongly I agree.

2 mins of somewhat boring game is nothing compared to the 5 or more mins between every game in a live series. When you have remotely interesting settings any good caster has stuff to talk about (even if they choose to talk about korean history instead of the game...), even arabia as long as its not the 3rd chinese vs mayans of the day there is plenty to talk about.

Either players need to be speedy making new games or we should just cast recs (I much prefer the recs in most cases, and if it's a live final then there should be plenty to talk about).
 
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Unknownlecracheursagacite

Longswordman
May 1, 2020
3,086
2,758
113
  • May 4, 2022
  • #48
willdbeast said:
A react isn't enough to signify how strongly I agree.

2 mins of somewhat boring game is nothing compared to the 5 or more mins between every game in a live series. When you have remotely interesting settings any good caster has stuff to talk about (even if they choose to talk about korean history instead of the game...), even arabia as long as its not the 3rd chinese vs mayans of the day there is plenty to talk about.

Either players need to be speedy making new games or we should just cast recs (I much prefer the recs in most cases, and if it's a live final then there should be plenty to talk about).
Click to expand...
AoE2 is quite an exhausting game to play at that level. It is normal in other sports for athletes to take a substantial break between certain big segments of their competition. Professional LoL teams take at least 10 minutes between each game in a set, and for traditional sports there are examples like ice hockey. Players not taking time to get reset between each map can drastically lower the overall quality of a series imo. Agree however that the first 2-5 minutes of the game is the perfect time for casters to warm the audience up with interesting conversation before the game really gets going. Done properly it's as comforting as a cup of coffee on a misty fall morning.
 
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JoshuaR

United StatesJoshuaR

Longswordman
Oct 11, 2013
828
1,259
113
  • May 4, 2022
  • #49
I feel really dumb, but what is a DWL start?
 
HongeyKong

Hong KongHongeyKong

Champion
Dec 11, 2019
2,282
3,690
128
  • May 4, 2022
  • #50
JoshuaR said:
mb, but what is a DWL start?
Click to expand...
Deep Waters League = 6 extra vils
 
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