NC23 - Main Event Group Stage Preview

[pumukel]

thank you, Tarsiz, great read, and also very helpful for someone who lost time & enthusiasm, but wants to keep in touch <3

 

[Tarsiz]

thank you, Tarsiz, great read, and also very helpful for someone who lost time & enthusiasm, but wants to keep in touch <3

Always good to have you around pumukel, glad you enjoyed.

 

[ManchildTV]

Game 1, VN asks for restore after <10 mins, everyone resigns, then Songsong_AOE scrolls to enemy base and analyzes it with his teammates for 30 seconds. (screenshot below, you can check his stream for the time)

Game 3, VN asks for restore yet again. (no stream available)

Is this behavior consistent with the rulebook? If it is, seems to me that every team should do it.

 

[Influenza]

Game 1, VN asks for restore after <10 mins, everyone resigns, then Songsong_AOE scrolls to enemy base and analyzes it with his teammates for 30 seconds. (screenshot below, you can check his stream for the time)

Game 3, VN asks for restore yet again. (no stream available)

Is this behavior consistent with the rulebook? If it is, seems to me that every team should do it.

Definitely behavior consistent with songsong and badboy KEKW

 

[The Bloodless]

Game 1, VN asks for restore after <10 mins, everyone resigns, then Songsong_AOE scrolls to enemy base and analyzes it with his teammates for 30 seconds. (screenshot below, you can check his stream for the time)

Game 3, VN asks for restore yet again. (no stream available)

Is this behavior consistent with the rulebook? If it is, seems to me that every team should do it.

Any extra information is obviously cheating. You can't get this effect of having Spies for free.

That being said, I doubt it really affects the result of that game much, and it seems difficult to enforce (though in this case it's easy -- VN should at least be fined or at least told that they shouldn't do that 11).

So many restores called for is really odd to me, but IDK maybe Vietnam - China is always laggy or smt. I don't think it would be a consistent valid tactic to call for a restore just to get the Spies effect because you might lose a few minutes or not be able to restore. I guess it could be valid as a desperation move though.

 

[oakaoe]

I'm gonna go with paraphrasing something Ornlu said - there are few things that feel so nice to watch in competitive AoE as a well oiled Suomi team firing on all cylinders in a 4v4 match. For me always the equivalent of Barcelona playing peak tiki taka football.

Watching TheMax tear it up in 5 TC peak boom mode is already reason enough for this tournament to exist. It's almost a bit sad slinging is so heavily hampered, I understand it sucks for the slinging players also but it was always such a joy to see him being slung into oblivion e.g. as Goths on Kilimanjaro and steamrolling GL/Tyrant into the Dark Ages.

Super psyched to see them ball out again, let's go Suomi

 

[crazyboy]

Game 1, VN asks for restore after <10 mins, everyone resigns, then Songsong_AOE scrolls to enemy base and analyzes it with his teammates for 30 seconds. (screenshot below, you can check his stream for the time)

Game 3, VN asks for restore yet again. (no stream available)

Is this behavior consistent with the rulebook? If it is, seems to me that every team should do it.

I have serious doubts that you possess any evidence to support the claim that the VN team requested "save and restore" as a tactic to gain an advantage from the map.

As you are likely aware, all of Vietnam's fiber cables to the international internet were cut, resulting in severe lag during the game in VN. As a result, the VNA and CNA scheduled a midnight match to address this issue. The players cannot be held accountable for the network lag or game crashes (Microsoft, are you listening?).

Using the "save and restore" tactic to check the map was an unfair play by Song Song. However, it does not constitute cheating or a violation of any rules. It's similar to a soccer match where a team leading in score may use time-delay tactics by keeping the ball to themselves and avoiding quick movements. Although this behavior is considered unfair, it is not against the rules. In the event that the time-delay tactic fails, the referee would issue a minor warning rather than accusing the team of cheating and awarding the victory to the opposing team.

Regarding the matter at hand, Song Song's act of checking the map was an unfair play that goes against honor and moral code, but it does not amount to cheating and does not violate any rules. It is likely that the information he obtained from the map during that point in the game did not provide a significant advantage for his team to win. Additionally, there were other factors at play, such as Song Song being constantly raided in the Castle Age, retreating his army from almost 40 free villagers at 31 minutes, and the exceptional plays made by Saymyname, TieuQuy, and Badboy. These dynamics may have overshadowed the unfair information Song Song obtained. Ultimately, the team won not because they gained information from the map, but because they played exceptionally well.

In conclusion, while Song Song's actions were unfair, they did not determine the outcome of the game. The VN team won due to their good game, and we should focus on that rather than the unfair tactic employed by Song Song. Peace.

 

[Kamigawa]

Once upon a time, in an ancient land called voobly, there was a button called Save and exit...

 

[ManchildTV]

Using the "save and restore" tactic to check the map was an unfair play by Song Song. However, it does not constitute cheating or a violation of any rules. It's similar to a soccer match where a team leading in score may use time-delay tactics by keeping the ball to themselves and avoiding quick movements. Although this behavior is considered unfair, it is not against the rules. In the event that the time-delay tactic fails, the referee would issue a minor warning rather than accusing the team of cheating and awarding the victory to the opposing team.

Regarding the matter at hand, Song Song's act of checking the map was an unfair play that goes against honor and moral code, but it does not amount to cheating and does not violate any rules.

This is one of the most insane diatribes I've ever read.

Spec cheating, i.e. getting free spies in Dark Age, equates to cheating in every sense of the word. The analogous comparison in football is installing a clandestine mic to eavesdrop on the other team's coach and know his strategies, an action that will not only get you permanently banned from soccer competitive play but possibly face criminal charges.

Nobody gives a **** that the VN team might have won even if they did not spec-cheat. It's up to them as players to prove that they can win fair and square without cheating. Once they've broken the community's good faith, none of their results should hold up.

If a child cheats by copying one answer on an exam, his score is zero, not "the original score minus one question's worth of points."

Adult players should be held to better standards than school children.

 

[kalpit00]

Once upon a time, in an ancient land called voobly, there was a button called Save and exit...

Brooo i couldn't remember this term for the life of me. all day i was trying to remember what it was called in Voobly 11, there was something which players clicked in the menu when someone crashed back in the day. how i wish they brought this back for DE

 

[crazyboy]

This is one of the most insane diatribes I've ever read.

Spec cheating, i.e. getting free spies in Dark Age, equates to cheating in every sense of the word. The analogous comparison in football is installing a clandestine mic to eavesdrop on the other team's coach and know his strategies, an action that will not only get you permanently banned from soccer competitive play but possibly face criminal charges.

I agree that obtaining real-time information through spec cheating can significantly impact the game. However, what I'm referring to is not spec cheating. You continue to argue that obtaining free spies is the same thing, but it's not. Can you distinguish between the information gained dynamically versus what is available on the map, which anyone can access? I am discussing that specific game, not the general concept.

Regarding eavesdropping in a soccer game, I have not received any information about it, and I doubt anyone can prove it.

Nobody gives a **** that the VN team might have won even if they did not spec-cheat. It's up to them as players to prove that they can win fair and square without cheating. Once they've broken the community's good faith, none of their results should hold up.

Yes, nobody should give a **** that the VN team might have won even if they did not spec-cheat. They won fair and square, regardless of whether they had information from the map or not. In the world of competition, you abide by the rules, not faith. If you prefer to stick to faith, then perhaps you should go to church.

 

[SethGecko]

thank you, Tarsiz, great read, and also very helpful for someone who lost time & enthusiasm, but wants to keep in touch <3

Yup, same here. I rarely follow the scene anymore, but stumbled upon this new edition of the Nations Cup and instantly looked it up on aoezone.

Amazing to see you doing an analysis after all those years.

 

[HelloWorld]

The Indian team led by Dragonstar completes Group G. The promising clash that could have opposed them to Netherlands A – the closest on paper of the entire qualifiers – did not happen, thus preventing us from judging India’s current shape. They are, however, a frequent fixture of high-level team games and could pose a challenge to both American teams. Regardless, they come in the group as an underdog, and I expect India to finish last of Group G.

Prediction: 1. Germany A 2. Argentina B 3. United States A 4. India A

​

Spoiler: NC23 - Group Stage Results

India A beat USA A 3- 0. Is this an upset or are they really the underdog?

 

[Tarsiz]

Yup, same here. I rarely follow the scene anymore, but stumbled upon this new edition of the Nations Cup and instantly looked it up on aoezone.

Amazing to see you doing an analysis after all those years.

I knew your username sounded familiar.

I really appreciate your message, especially since your analysis post for NC 2017 is precisely what got me into making those write-ups for all these tournaments. Even my writing style for these today is still influenced by your own from back then (which becomes all the more apparent after reading them back to back!).

I haven't done one of those for a couple years, but NC 2023 felt like the perfect occasion - and we've now gone full circle.

Spoiler: NC23 - Group Stage Results

India A beat USA A 3- 0. Is this an upset or are they really the underdog?

Spoiler: NC23 - Group Stage Results

To me it's an upset, albeit a small one.
The Indian team is well-practiced and has great chemistry but after Dragonstar they lack a bit in 1v1 skills - which clearly seems to not be all that important this year, and it's great to see. I also believe the USA team to be a bit overrated, but some of the guys on the line-up tend to be easily riled by that kind of talk and I didn't want to shatter their self-confidence.