NAC3 vs N4C in numbers

[malamadre]

So I was getting curious about Nili's tournament which had like 5k viewers most day today, i didn't remember if that was good or bad, first day he got 10k so i thought 'decent enough'. So I found this website that is super cool and very well organized to see twitch stats. https://twitchtracker.com/nili_aoe/streams
And we can see that N4C is doing really bad if you consider the prizepool and LAN costs.

Nac 3 - 33k prizepool (started with 25k)

Avg Viewers day 1 - 8.06k
Avg Viewers day 2 - 8.9k
Avg Viewers day 3 - 8.91k

N4C - 100k prizepool

Avg Viewers day 1 - 6.9k
Avg Viewers day 2 - 6.5k
Avg Viewers day 3 - 5.7k

I just compared the first 3 days, i encourage to see all others stats like followers gained, hours watched and peak viewers, all in favour for NAC3.
This is already a massive failure, a tournament with 4 times more money, with more sponsors, bigger venue is pulling like 30% less in all relevant metrics.

I do hope Nili really likes AOE4 because otherwise he might regret this one a lot.

 

[I_Sniper_]

So I was getting curious about Nili's tournament which had like 5k viewers most day today, i didn't remember if that was good or bad, first day he got 10k so i thought 'decent enough'. So I found this website that is super cool and very well organized to see twitch stats. https://twitchtracker.com/nili_aoe/streams
And we can see that N4C is doing really bad if you consider the prizepool and LAN costs.

Nac 3 - 33k prizepool (started with 25k)

Avg Viewers day 1 - 8.06k
Avg Viewers day 2 - 8.9k
Avg Viewers day 3 - 8.91k

N4C - 100k prizepool

Avg Viewers day 1 - 6.9k
Avg Viewers day 2 - 6.5k
Avg Viewers day 3 - 5.7k

I just compared the first 3 days, i encourage to see all others stats like followers gained, hours watched and peak viewers, all in favour for NAC3.
This is already a massive failure, a tournament with 4 times more money, with more sponsors, bigger venue is pulling like 30% less in all relevant metrics.

I do hope Nili really likes AOE4 because otherwise he might regret this one a lot.

N4C is open streaming, so numbers are a bit better with all channels. Probably same as NAC3.

 

[malamadre]

N4C is open streaming, so numbers are a bit better with all channels. Probably same as NAC3.

Fair enough. Although is still low and this is a comparison for his channel.

 

[MyRegalTip]

jeez aoezone seems more butthurt by the day. i understand why we all want a true NAC4, but at some point you just gotta let live.

 

[archxeon]

From an objective viewpoint, I feel like the comparisons are not fair. The value of AoE4 viewership and AoE2 viewership is different. So a 1:1 comparison is not justified. At this current stage, I think you have to pay more to get the same amount of viewership for AoE4 than in AoE2.

 

[malamadre]

From an objective viewpoint, I feel like the comparisons are not fair. The value of AoE4 viewership and AoE2 viewership is different. So a 1:1 comparison is not justified. At this current stage, I think you have to pay more to get the same amount of viewership for AoE4 than in AoE2.

What do you mean? The games were the same age De vs aoe4. Yes one costs more but thats a bit of a stretch

 

[I_Sniper_]

Fair enough. Although is still low and this is a comparison for his channel.

That's not what your first sentence says :

"So I was getting curious about Nili's tournament which had like 5k viewers most day today"

The tournament had more than 5k viewers. There was alternative channels. Also I dont think it's low, it's quite high for a new game with super low content and way after the big release hype.

 

[LeoMontero]

what we willnever know, if the NAC3 would be open stream, how many more viewers would have.

 

[LowEloNobody]

So I was getting curious about Nili's tournament which had like 5k viewers most day today

Think NC4 was closer to 8k average viewers across channels today

 

[IYIyTh]

This is already a massive failure, a tournament with 4 times more money, with more sponsors, bigger venue is pulling like 30% less in all relevant metrics.

Man, with results like that you just would think someone would get fired.

 

[Timotheus_]

Thinking about tournaments the same way as you have over the last 2 years makes no sense. The last two years, all online games took a large increase in viewership due to things like quarantine, isolation and the fact that governments were a lot more concerned with COVID. Now with a lot of countries opening up - to some degree - there will of course be less viewers.

 

[Lord Bolton]

Also need to factor that multiplayer aoe4 community is very young and is starting from ground 0. It will take time to earn a competitive multiplayer viewerbase. For a game that is past its hype phase and single player gamers moved to different games, 7-10k viewers is quite nice. It could have been better if dev cycles were faster in patching the game. Regarding prizepool being high, MS already laughed its way to the bank with the amount of sales on aoe4. 95k$ is peanuts in comparision. With the high quality of games in n4c and upcoming spring update with modding/scenario editors, hotkeys... we could see the game get back on track with the hype.

 

[Tuunbaq]

Thinking about tournaments the same way as you have over the last 2 years makes no sense. The last two years, all online games took a large increase in viewership due to things like quarantine, isolation and the fact that governments were a lot more concerned with COVID. Now with a lot of countries opening up - to some degree - there will of course be less viewers.

Irrelevant. NAC3 was in early January 2020, 2 months before the lockdowns started.
Your point is valid for Hidden Cup held that year.

 

[Timotheus_]

Irrelevant. NAC3 was in early January 2020, 2 months before the lockdowns started.
Your point is valid for Hidden Cup held that year.

Not quite irrelevant. On one hand, yes NAC3 was before the pandemic hit so it didn't benefit. However, there is no question that after 2 years stuck indoors/away from friends/travelling/etc those things are much more desirable. Therefore I would argue that N4C is hit implicitly (to what extent I have no idea).

 

[oozkan]

Thinking about tournaments the same way as you have over the last 2 years makes no sense. The last two years, all online games took a large increase in viewership due to things like quarantine, isolation and the fact that governments were a lot more concerned with COVID. Now with a lot of countries opening up - to some degree - there will of course be less viewers.

NAC3 is before Covid. So whole statement is garbage now. N4C is in more advantegous position than NAC3 according to your logic, since people are still working remote in many places, especially people working with computers, which is kind of main source of viewers, it is not easy to watch Twitch at office space but at home you can open Twitch on your TV or easily alt tab while working.

On the other hand comparison for later days would be unfair for N4C since Viper is out. Tournament lost its magnet.

 

[MuscleChamp]

I hope nili announces 250k N5C aoe4 event on the final day of n4c

 

[Fall]

Not quite irrelevant. On one hand, yes NAC3 was before the pandemic hit so it didn't benefit. However, there is no question that after 2 years stuck indoors/away from friends/travelling/etc those things are much more desirable. Therefore I would argue that N4C is hit implicitly (to what extent I have no idea).

Nope, there are more twitch viewers in 2022 than there was in 2020.

Source: https://sullygnome.com/longtermstats

In terms of both peak viewership and average viewership, channels should have more viewers now than they did at that time.

You can also scroll down and sort by average viewers per channel, because this rise in viewership could be explained by an increase in the number of channels rather than the viewership per channel.

However, February 2022 had the 3rd highest average viewership per channel in Twitch history. No month in 2020 makes it onto the top 12.

I understand your argument and it is logical, but clearly the growth of Twitch has outweighed any effects from opening up.

N4C is just performing dramatically worse than NAC3 did.

 

[malamadre]

This is a general comparison, it is not about pandemic, or open streaming or whatever.

It is about both games and to have evidence in the future that an aoe2 tournament will be a lot more successful than an aeo4 tournament.

So we can go to guys like EGC and tell him "look if you host an aoe2 tournament you will get 3 times more viewers". We can also call out Nili, we dont know his metrics which he is evaluated for his job, but i would think it has something to do with viewership.

 

[archxeon]

What do you mean? The games were the same age De vs aoe4. Yes one costs more but thats a bit of a stretch

I am just talking about comparison of viewership.

Maybe an example will help:
If you start a new football league and get some renowned players, you still cannot expect the same viewership as the English premier league on the first season even if they spent a LOT of money.

Sure, this example is also an oversimplification of things as there are so many factors. I'm sure the numbers we are seeing for viewership for N4C is a bit of a disappointment for the amount of money spent on it. It wouldn't matter what game it was. But comparing the viewership of other games that have built the viewership base over time does not seem fair.

Imagine if this was an AoE2 tournament with the same amount of money being spent, the viewership would have to be a lot more for it to be not disappointing. After all, a $1000 showmatch just had 4-6k viewers, so a $100k legacy tournament should be doubling what NC4 is doing not to be a disappointment. (I think it would double NC4's viewership btw.)

If HC4 doesn't hit 50k peak viewership with a $100k prizepool, would it be disappointing? Probably. I think the uncertainty is one of the reasons, it is not happening right away.
Hopefully, this clarifies my point that 1:1 comparison of viewership is not justified.

 

[oozkan]

I am just talking about comparison of viewership.

Maybe an example will help:
If you start a new football league and get some renowned players, you still cannot expect the same viewership as the English premier league on the first season even if they spent a LOT of money.

Sure, this example is also an oversimplification of things as there are so many factors. I'm sure the numbers we are seeing for viewership for N4C is a bit of a disappointment for the amount of money spent on it. It wouldn't matter what game it was. But comparing the viewership of other games that have built the viewership base over time does not seem fair.

Imagine if this was an AoE2 tournament with the same amount of money being spent, the viewership would have to be a lot more for it to be not disappointing. After all, a $1000 showmatch just had 4-6k viewers, so a $100k legacy tournament should be doubling what NC4 is doing not to be a disappointment. (I think it would double NC4's viewership btw.)

If HC4 doesn't hit 50k peak viewership with a $100k prizepool, would it be disappointing? Probably. I think the uncertainty is one of the reasons, it is not happening right away.
Hopefully, this clarifies my point that 1:1 comparison of viewership is not justified.

Let's agree on that only thing we can fairly compare at this point potential of NAC4 vs N4C. If you ask me there is clear winner there, but still we can only talk about potential of it, while N4C has actual numbers.

 

[Lord Bolton]

Its interesting how the lot of people here are so obsessed with prizepool and viewercount here . If aoe 2 tournament organizers over the years have shown us something, they did it for passion of the game they liked and that was the priority. That was the reason Hidden cup/ king of the desert /BoA / MoA / MoS series happened.

So we can go to guys like EGC and tell him "look if you host an aoe2 tournament you will get 3 times more viewers". We can also call out Nili, we dont know his metrics which he is evaluated for his job, but i would think it has something to do with viewership.

If you think EGC are in it primarily for viewercount/subcount and not for passion they have for aoe4 tournaments, you are dead wrong. ANyways,
when you and your gang of umm aoezone trolls showed up on the announcement of Golden league for aoe4 and trashed aoe4/the sponsor/nili and derailed the thread, EGCTV which was interested in hosting aoe2 tourneys simply abandoned the idea sending a great message to prospective tourney sponsors that aoe2 community has a bunch of vocal plebs ruining the day for everyone else.

 

[oozkan]

when you and your gang of umm aoezone trolls showed up on the announcement of Golden league for aoe4 and trashed aoe4/the sponsor/nili and derailed the thread, EGCTV which was interested in hosting aoe2 tourneys simply abandoned the idea sending a great message to prospective tourney sponsors that aoe2 community has a bunch of vocal plebs ruining the day for everyone else.

Yeah game is perfect, it is AOEZone trolls who caused failure of AOE4 streams. Delusional.

 

[Lord Bolton]

Yeah game is perfect, it is AOEZone trolls who caused failure of AOE4 streams. Delusional.

Do you lack basic reading skills? Did i say the game was perfect or aoezone trolls caused aoe4 stream failures? I am tired of your extremely lazy hazy takes. If you think derailing threads with nili hate/sponsor hate on a tournament announcement thread is an acceptable behavior which gains goodwill from future private sponsorships to aoe2 tournament scene, I have nothing more to say to you.

 

[Black Adder]

Interesting was how on Saturday the peak came already in the afternoon, some 10k+ on NilPferD's channel, which then fell to the 7-6k+ average for the evening (I don't believe it was spread amongst other channels casting that much, possibly a bit, but not to such a degree, Grubby possibly got some hundreds from that it looks like, though he has his own high viewership, so maybe not and it was just natural viewers of his, and this was before the AoEII showmatch still) - usually the progress should be opposite, right. Add to that the number of views on the Twitch vids - 177k Saturday, 99k Sunday (and it seems to be holding about there), which could say that many people tuned in to see what it was and how it was, only to leave after not finding it interesting enough - and those leaving numbers seem very high.

Its interesting how the lot of people here are so obsessed with prizepool and viewercount here . If aoe 2 tournament organizers over the years have shown us something, they did it for passion of the game they liked and that was the priority. That was the reason Hidden cup/ king of the desert /BoA / MoA / MoS series happened.

You do realise times have changed a bit and the big tournaments, especially ones sponsored by Microsoft, are all about money and business and viewership now, right? Don't live in the past where it might have been true (though some people are confused when the business part of this all truly started, it started way earlier than many account for) and don't confuse current community tournaments like RotC or MoS or anything else like that that is having community raised prize pools and business ventures that are meant to make money for their hosts or have viewership goals for their sponsors (no, Logitech is really not "into AoEIV just because they enjoy it").

If you think EGC are in it primarily for viewercount/subcount and not for passion they have for aoe4 tournaments, you are dead wrong. ANyways,
when you and your gang of umm aoezone trolls showed up on the announcement of Golden league for aoe4 and trashed aoe4/the sponsor/nili and derailed the thread, EGCTV which was interested in hosting aoe2 tourneys simply abandoned the idea sending a great message to prospective tourney sponsors that aoe2 community has a bunch of vocal plebs ruining the day for everyone else.

EGC is straight business, he invested into it a lot, he needs and wants to make money - he thought he's going to make it big with a new game in the franchise that was supposed to be huge after doing tournaments in III, so while he probably originally comes from a place of personal enjoyment of the games/franchise at least, yes, he absolutely needs viewership now.

 

[oozkan]

Do you lack basic reading skills? Did i say the game was perfect or aoezone trolls caused aoe4 stream failures? I am tired of your extremely lazy hazy takes. If you think derailing threads with nili hate/sponsor hate on a tournament announcement thread is an acceptable behavior which gains goodwill from future private sponsorships to aoe2 tournament scene, I have nothing more to say to you.

Lol you are delusional dude. But thank you I am flattered that you think that my two paragraph here has a lot of effect on EGC, tomorrow I will write something about Putin, let's see if he gave up on war also like EGC gave up on tourneys.

EGC is thinking about money, money that they generate via adverts, adverts that should be shown to certain people in target zone. So it is purely related to viewership.

PS: Dear Ukranian friends, please make a statue of me next to Zelensky for my contributions, a small one. Lol.