NAC 4 - Off Topic

[LeoMontero]

Please don't use my contribution on this site as an argument others should do it more. The majority of the time I click into aoezone it's something I regret, and I mainly do so because old habits die hard. Let's not act like "three trolls disliked the event" is the reason someone like Nili might not want to invest energy and time here. Look through a few pages of this thread and it's gone well beyond that, and it was way worse at times in the past. This has happened in various degrees towards Nili, Memb, and myself over the years and while it has varied in seriousness, it almost always crosses the line. Hell, even if someone is praising someone they often use it as an opportunity to tear another down at the same time. The most concerning point is that those who cross the line are often encouraged by having the highest amount of upvotes which just feeds the cycle.

Saying "every tournament that has kept the game alive over the past 15 years primordially existed because of this board" may be very true. But to me that's like saying we should stay on Voobly because of the role it played in keeping AoE2 alive. Times change and when something isn't best for the community people move on, and I can totally understand why many don't want to interact here as much.

Hosting a tournament takes a lot of time and energy. In my case I often put a year or more planning & brainstorming on what I want to achieve for the event. In Nili's case I am sure he's in a similar boat. Why would anyone want to put time and effort into AoEZone when their trailer thread is going to turn into people shitting on you for page after page, and bringing up the past at every opportunity?
I still believe everyone here loves the game and is passionate about it, but I really wonder how much that matters versus the drama these days. While most would say they do care about the tourneys and such, it seems the main thing that gets people active here is drama. For example, Titans League Silver generated next to zero discussion on this board, we had Gabi getting into Gold which was freaking awesome for our scene, we had Hoang getting good results on mixed maps, Heart and Lan returning to high level tourneys for the first time in a long time. The list goes on for Silver, but now we've got people like Running winning 2-1 vs Vinch in the first round, ridiculous games from Dracken to take down Liereyy on arena, again the list goes on and on. Maybe this is my fault for not creating a separate discussion thread for TTL (which I will do soon as this has made me think about it) but this isn't just for TTL, it's a consistent theme on this board that people prefer to talk about the game less and drama more.

AoEZone has been important to our scene over the years. But let's not act like the dominating conversations on this board are invaluable to our community these days. And to be clear, I'm not trying to diss whoever is reading this personally as it can vary from person to person... But surely there's an easy theme to pick up on when being on aoezone these days.

The thing you said about discussing games in tournaments its something i dont understand. sometimes i really want to talk about strategies, how games develop, tournaments, more deep analysys and i dont get any answer. some caster should make it, its an amazing idea for me. like one day per week, talk about results, games, analisys.
if you make a thread over this things, it would be awesome. title, game xxxx vs xxxx analysis, another title, final xxxxx tournament analisys. and take out the drama. in those topics only can talk bout strategies and games and results, no organization, no casters, nothing outside the pure game.

 

[HongeyKong]

11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111

 

[RingZero]

It's about control.

I know right? Imagine if you expose his crimes on a different AOEzone thread. It would be seen by at least, geez, 0-2 additional entire people? I can see why he needs to keep that kind of threat under control. Terrifying.

This is not one of the most influential communities. The majority of people who enjoy watching or playing AOE2 either can’t stand it, or plain old don’t know it exists.

Maybe it was once, but there’s little evidence I can see in this thread or most others that I’ve read here that most people actually enjoy anything related to AOE2 beyond posting endless meaningless complains about this caster or that, or this tournament or that, or about the existence of other AOE games. Most the larger community just enjoys the game(s) and couldn’t care less about AOEzone’s drama of the week.

 

[The Bloodless]

I know right? Imagine if you expose his crimes on a different AOEzone thread. It would be seen by at least, geez, 0-2 additional entire people? I can see why he needs to keep that kind of threat under control. Terrifying.

This is not one of the most influential communities. The majority of people who enjoy watching or playing AOE2 either can’t stand it, or plain old don’t know it exists.

Maybe it was once, but there’s little evidence I can see in this thread or most others that I’ve read here that most people actually enjoy anything related to AOE2 beyond posting endless meaningless complains about this caster or that, or this tournament or that, or about the existence of other AOE games. Most the larger community just enjoys the game(s) and couldn’t care less about AOEzone’s drama of the week.

So what is one of the most influential communities?

 

[SouFire]

The most influential community about aoe2 has to be t90 youtube's channel or spirit of the law's channel as both of those have more reach than aoezone, aoeforums, all aoe discords and reddit.

The time of using forums is coming to an end, for next big events twitter, fb, instagrama, tiktok , official discords and all associated channels will share all the details, there wont be big dramas anymore or interesting discussions other than adding +140 civs to the game and even martians cause why not in all official or related channels were MS is involved by tournament sponsor or any contract involved, the rest of the channels might have drama and racism but all within their own communities, aoezone is no longer the hub for aoe2, other than events or dramas related to them, there is no activity at all and pro players have stopped using the forum for whatever reason, even the balance discussions are being fully ignored instead of having skilled players sharing their thoughts, most of the old users just keep visiting aoezone as an old habit without finding topics of their interests while newer users don't really post on it.

 

[LowEloNobody]

It's about control.

The Cabal strikes again!

 

[IYIyTh]

I know right? Imagine if you expose his crimes on a different AOEzone thread. It would be seen by at least, geez, 0-2 additional entire people? I can see why he needs to keep that kind of threat under control. Terrifying.

This is not one of the most influential communities. The majority of people who enjoy watching or playing AOE2 either can’t stand it, or plain old don’t know it exists.

Maybe it was once, but there’s little evidence I can see in this thread or most others that I’ve read here that most people actually enjoy anything related to AOE2 beyond posting endless meaningless complains about this caster or that, or this tournament or that, or about the existence of other AOE games.

I don't know why you're gesticulating.

The idea that aoezone isn't influential is simply wrong. The amount of tournament changes, colorful streamer/player interactions... Tournament dissemination happens most on this board. Liquipedia has failed as a tournament dissemination vehicle. Excellent for tournament results.

I barely even post here anymore, and it's painfully obvious that this forum is one way the only way the silo'd, echo-chamber communities in aoe2 are tied together. People can claim that other "communities," ie: discord, are superior -- but far more people have aoezone in common, let alone the thousands of random subchannels of discussion on aoe2 on discord that end up being a back-forth between 2-3 people.

You even admit that "maybe it was once influential," which is laughable. There is no denying aoezone's pre-eminence in past times, let alone recent as "influential". Objectively.

Most the larger community just enjoys the game(s) and couldn’t care less about AOEzone’s drama of the week.

Most of the larger community of aoe2 doesn't even play multiplayer.

Those that do come here when they want to see several casters, players, and indeed individual members of the aoe2 community side-by-side on a given topic of import rather than on 30 character limit sound bytes that lack any sort of flow.

Control has been and always will be the reason prominent figures will prefer something like aoezone to not exist. It's common sense. It's far easier to ban discussion on any topic that might be critical of oneself on one's twitch stream or discord. I have posted numerous times requesting additional moderation. I don't think many would disagree that it is lacking in oversight. I probably lead the site in reporting spam / flame bait posts, but alas -- despite its flaws, it's the best aoe2 has for what it is, and is merely one piece of a greater pie.

I don't believe anyone is forcing you to be here, for example -- and yet here you are.

 

[Memeluke]

@SouFire twitter=no drama? My brother in Christ one week of mainly communicating on twitter has more drama and toxicity potential than 20 years of aoczone... for once you cannot lock tweets of toxic users telling tournament admins or streamers to kill themselves and such

 

[TheCapybara]

Liquipedia has failed as a tournament dissemination vehicle

This is not its aim. Feels an odd thing to declare it as having 'failed'. LP is designed to document tournaments and prominent figures in the game, not to do the work of advertising tournaments.

 

[IYIyTh]

This is not its aim. Feels an odd thing to declare it as having 'failed'. LP is designed to document tournaments and prominent figures in the game, not to do the work of advertising tournaments.

You cherry picked a sentence. The next one directly states its primary use. Certain casters have asserted Liquipedia as being a superior means of tournament dissemination/alternative to aoezone et al, which it is not. The statement is relevant to the overall topic in the midst of the larger post you quoted one sentence of.

 

[TheCapybara]

You cherry picked a sentence. The next one directly states its primary use. Certain casters have asserted Liquipedia as being a superior means of tournament dissemination, which it is not. The statement is relevant to the overall topic in the midst of the larger post you quoted one sentence of.

I picked that sentence because you did not offer any of that context. In the context of your post, you made it seem like the intended purpose of LP was to disseminate tournaments, which is a misrepresentation of what LP is for. When you don't say other people made a claim before making a statement, it's quite reasonable to assume that it is your own take.

 

[Rayne]

I probably lead the site in reporting spam / flame bait posts, but alas -- despite its flaws, it's the best aoe2 has for what it is, and is merely one piece of a greater pie.

Wow, really? I would’ve never expected that from you ever. Kind of speechless in a good way. It’s like you really want these forums to be a better place. Why not be try and be a mod yourself?

 

[IYIyTh]

Wow, really? I would’ve never expected that from you ever. Kind of speechless in a good way. It’s like you really want these forums to be a better place. Why not be try and be a mod yourself?

The chances of me being appointed a mod on this website are about as likely as my odds of investment in Denarius.

 

[IYIyTh]

I picked that sentence because you did not offer any of that context. In the context of your post, you made it seem like the intended purpose of LP was to disseminate tournaments, which is a misrepresentation of what LP is for. When you don't say other people made a claim before making a statement, it's quite reasonable to assume that it is your own take.

Still, seems like an odd take for a factual statement like "Liquipedia sucks as a tournament dissemination vehicle. But it's great at recording tournament results," as something that needed corrected, especially in the context of the paragraph it was contained. The preceding sentence says "tournament dissemination happens most on this board." So if you take the sentence directly before, and after -- you now have a pretty decent idea of what the poster is saying. ie: aoezone > liquipedia for tourney dissemination.

It might just be easier to post the original paragraph:

"The idea that aoezone isn't influential is simply wrong. The amount of tournament changes, colorful streamer/player interactions... Tournament dissemination happens most on this board. Liquipedia has failed as a tournament dissemination vehicle. Excellent for tournament results."

Well, now on to world hunger.

 

[King_Boo]

something that needed corrected.

*something that needed correction

 

[IYIyTh]

*something that needed correction

I would frog face this by itself but then it would look like spam.

Let me adequately convey my visual feelings about your correction.

 

[archxeon]

I don't know why you're gesticulating.

The idea that aoezone isn't influential is simply wrong. The amount of tournament changes, colorful streamer/player interactions... Tournament dissemination happens most on this board. Liquipedia has failed as a tournament dissemination vehicle. Excellent for tournament results.

I barely even post here anymore, and it's painfully obvious that this forum is one way the only way the silo'd, echo-chamber communities in aoe2 are tied together. People can claim that other "communities," ie: discord, are superior -- but far more people have aoezone in common, let alone the thousands of random subchannels of discussion on aoe2 on discord that end up being a back-forth between 2-3 people.

You even admit that "maybe it was once influential," which is laughable. There is no denying aoezone's pre-eminence in past times, let alone recent as "influential". Objectively.



Most of the larger community of aoe2 doesn't even play multiplayer.

Those that do come here when they want to see several casters, players, and indeed individual members of the aoe2 community side-by-side on a given topic of import rather than on 30 character limit sound bytes that lack any sort of flow.

Control has been and always will be the reason prominent figures will prefer something like aoezone to not exist. It's common sense. It's far easier to ban discussion on any topic that might be critical of oneself on one's twitch stream or discord. I have posted numerous times requesting additional moderation. I don't think many would disagree that it is lacking in oversight. I probably lead the site in reporting spam / flame bait posts, but alas -- despite its flaws, it's the best aoe2 has for what it is, and is merely one piece of a greater pie.

I don't believe anyone is forcing you to be here, for example -- and yet here you are.

Maybe its the age that we live in. Extremes take the focus away from legitimate criticism but mild mannered criticism aren't taken seriously. Kind of the whole fight against "Cancel Culture".

 

[IYIyTh]

Maybe its the age that we live in. Extremes take the focus away from legitimate criticism but mild mannered criticism aren't taken seriously. Kind of the whole fight against "Cancel Culture".

Eh, I think pressure to change is good.

Certain pro players on this board have either changed or gained an understanding that certain behavior is unacceptable as a risk to their brand in no small part due to AOEZone's dissemination of events. On discord it might be deleted or buried in one of thirty subchannels. On reddit it might be downvoted by fanboys. On stream you might be banned for even mentioning it. Here serves as a record over time. It is most interesting to have as people change and so might their opinions on certain issue(s) over time. Or -- they might not change and there might be an easily accessible history. All in one place.

Part of the human condition. No individual willingly submits to criticism if unnecessary. If you feel you are being negatively impacted by the existence of criticism, you will obviously seek/advocate for it to cease.

If I am a prominent pro player/streamer with a following, I am probably used to dictating what things can/can't be said when and where I want. It's obviously uncomfortable when that control is lost. It's easy to take a lack of moderation and extreme example to paint the lot in a broad brush, but it's intellectually lazy -- and a disservice to the aoe2 community.

I think everyone (sane, except maybe some sort of anarchist, or free-speech extremist etc,) would agree that these boards could use more moderation. (Not just when a discussion about a MS sponsored event appears)

I also think moderation could do well to remove some of the posts maligning aoezone (likely in no small part coming from paragraph 4) which add nothing positive to the discussion. Or if moderation find they can't participate meaningfully, perhaps acceding to their wish to be free of aoezone since they seemingly can't get enough in spite of their words.