NAC 4 - Caster Discussions

[Vossn]

I am a big believer of "soft drinks".

In this case, when it comes to carbonated beverages, few can deny the global appeal of Coca Cola and Pepsi. While some may try to remain impartial in the eternal debate between the two, it's clear that there's a passionate bias in favor of Coca Cola. The smooth, crisp taste of a cold Coca Cola on a hot summer day is a true delight for me as a player, while the taste of Pepsi falls short in comparison, pathetic to be honest.

One can't help but notice the difference in quality between these two popular drinks. Coca Cola has a certain effervescence that invigorates the senses and enlivens the palate, while Pepsi seems to lack that extra oomph. Coca Cola's caramelized sweetness is unmatched, and its balance of flavor creates a delightful and refreshing taste experience.

In terms of brand recognition, Coca Cola is the clear winner. The iconic red and white logo is instantly recognizable around the world, and the their marketing campaigns hasbeen nothing short of legendary. Pepsi, on the other hand, has struggled to keep up with its competitor in terms of brand identity, often relying on celebrity endorsements to stay relevant.

But beyond the professionalism and the taste, there's a certain nostalgia associated with Coca Cola that simply can't be replicated. The classic glass bottle, the sound of the fizz as it pours over ice, and the memories of sharing a Coke with friends and family all contribute to a sense of warmth and familiarity that Pepsi just can't match.

And let's not forget about the sheer variety of Coca Cola products available. From classic Coca Cola to Cherry Coke, Vanilla Coke, and more, there's a flavor for every taste preference. Pepsi, on the other hand, seems to rely heavily on its flagship product and hasn't ventured far beyond that.

All in all, while some may argue that Coca Cola and Pepsi are two sides of the same coin - even friends as some might argue - it's clear that there's a passionate bias in favor of Coca Cola and Pepsi has been a poor steward of soft drinks. Respectfully, I'd ask PepsiCo to stop creating sparkling and carbonated beverages and respect the community.

Yet Pepsi's do have their niche, as far as I've heard, they're widely the preferred kind to make baco's with, and the like. Though it might not be able to fulfil the full market, some will still prefer pepsi for it's own goals. Hence, for those, Pepsi shouldn't stop producing.

Meanwhile, having started about the variety of coca cola products. Many of these products attempt to fill a niche where there isn't one. They are merely there to provide the illusion of variety, which helps with the consumption of the main product, namely the mainstream types of coke. Often these specific varieties don't get sold out at a profit.

Overall they still increase profits, due to the before mentioned variety effect. Which is the reason coca cola still produces these, not to be sold and enjoyed, but to increase profit.

On many other things, coca cola has also made sacrifices purely for the increased profits, under which not using recycled water. Since they noticed this decreases sales, and thus profits, as well.

In this comparison, coca cola comes accross as the, perhaps more succesful, but most profit-focused off the two, trying to solve the markets for the greatest number of sales. Meanwhile Pepsi still is there for those who like something who want to do something different, even if those are smaller groups.

 

[Vossn]

Idk, I guess that post was the combination of going a bit too far into the allegories, as well as spewing a bit of cola-trivia, but I don't really know anything about pepsi, and the conditions about which they are produced, so take it with a grain of salt.

 

[Chanson]

T90 is the Coca-Cola Company
Memb is PepsiCo
Dave is the Dr. Pepper portion of the Keurig Dr. Pepper portfolio (often available with Coke or Pepsi)
Nili is RC Cola or, if you are being even more unfavorable, Moxie, but this works less well when you realize neither is an independent company
Dash is Nestle’s beverage portfolio

 

[LeoMontero]

T90 is the Coca-Cola Company
Memb is PepsiCo
Dave is the Dr. Pepper portion of the Keurig Dr. Pepper portfolio (often available with Coke or Pepsi)
Nili is RC Cola or, if you are being even more unfavorable, Moxie, but this works less well when you realize neither is an independent company
Dash is Nestle’s beverage portfolio

sorry but coca cola is memb, t90 came later

 

[FolderOfDoom]

For every vocal hater of Memb, there's five quiet fans.

From my experience thats rather:

"For every quiet hater of Memb, there's five vocal hooligans"

 

[LePac]

The Coca Cola / Pepsi thing is... just nonsense.

Anyway, it's a duopol so you'd continue to struggle to compare it with Age casters. This will never be a good metaphor.
I just found the previous post from slixgotcha ridiculous (beautifully written though, no offense :-))

Idk, I guess that post was the combination of going a bit too far into the allegories, as well as spewing a bit of cola-trivia, but I don't really know anything about pepsi, and the conditions about which they are produced, so take it with a grain of salt.

I really like membstradamus and his passion, I am also a hippo lover if Nili does not take himself too seriously, of course nobody dislikes birdwatcher Dave and "SUPPLIES!"-T90. I don't appreciate y'all hating on them, don't you have other stuff to do with your life? While I do like some (artificial) drama on Aoe Zone - because let's be honest, this is one of the reasons you come here - it is easy to fade them out, if you somehow don't like their style, attitude, morale or whatever.

Having said that I am not excited that not the entire "caster family" will be there for the tournament, due to my appreciation and because I neither know Dash nor LoL. However, the severe issues that some people have here regarding "Dash as a subsitute for Memb" reveals some severe emotional fragility, and I think there are some deep issues (childhood, family, relationships) that are triggered that some of y'all need to work on to be more happy.

 

[slixgotcha]

The Coca Cola / Pepsi thing is... just nonsense.

Anyway, it's a duopol so you'd continue to struggle to compare it with Age casters. This will never be a good metaphor.
I just found the previous post from slixgotcha ridiculous (beautifully written though, no offense :-))

Simpler version of my point: Oftentimes by trying for "mass appeal" brands result in alienating the customers who put them in a position to "try for mass appeal" to begin with. Resulting in temporarily inflated sales (or viewership), but damaging the brand long term by replacing loyal customers with ones that have no allegiance to the product behind the "new shiny thing".

 

[otw_Da]

...severe emotional fragility...

expressing your opinion = serve emotional fragility - make sense

 

[Crawsack]

It's unfortunate to see some of the big names in casting AoE2 don't get along, but that is life. For a variety of reasons, most of which those of us not involved may never know, Nili and Memb don't get along and Memb is a polarizing figure.

I think it's unfortunate that we have to vilify one figure and praise another. I'm a huge fan of both Nili and Memb as casters and as contributors to the community. They've both done far more than most to help boost the visibility of the game and get more and more people interested and involved.

I enjoy the variety and flavor of casters out there. T90, Dave, Nili, Memb, Ornlu, and many others have unique perspectives, tendencies, and styles like any e-sport or competition where casting is part of it.

I think some of the challenges that AoE2 casters have is a wide range of cultural backgrounds. Things that Nili or Memb do that might be considered rude is in my opinion more a reflection of cultural norms and what's considered polite/rude in one's social circle.

 

[SquattingSlav]

It's unfortunate to see some of the big names in casting AoE2 don't get along, but that is life. For a variety of reasons, most of which those of us not involved may never know, Nili and Memb don't get along and Memb is a polarizing figure.

I think it's unfortunate that we have to vilify one figure and praise another. I'm a huge fan of both Nili and Memb as casters and as contributors to the community. They've both done far more than most to help boost the visibility of the game and get more and more people interested and involved.

I enjoy the variety and flavor of casters out there. T90, Dave, Nili, Memb, Ornlu, and many others have unique perspectives, tendencies, and styles like any e-sport or competition where casting is part of it.

I think some of the challenges that AoE2 casters have is a wide range of cultural backgrounds. Things that Nili or Memb do that might be considered rude is in my opinion more a reflection of cultural norms and what's considered polite/rude in one's social circle.

I think to fully understand the reasons why certain casters are invited/not invited we have to also see the demographics of those that watch. I can imagine that 12-18 year olds are watching different casters than 40-50.
As an organisor you want to have as many demographics as possible present.
These are numbers we won`t ever see, these are numbers Nilli has seen due to his Microsoft job ...
As an organisor i like to believe that Nilli wants to set up the best event possible for as many people as possible. Not let personal drama get inbetween of that, him being German he likes numbers, and in this i think numbers win over emotions ...
This topic on the other hand is emotions with a lot of personal opinion, but no data to support whatever claim is made ...

 

[Progeusz]

i like to believe that Nilli wants to set up the best event possible for as many people as possible

He had the power to decide which game will get the $100k tournament a year ago and he chose aoe4 instead of aoe2.
Even though the event has historically always been aoe2. Even though aoe2 had better numbers at that time. Even though aoe2 had much better future prospects. Even though whole release cycle of aoe4 was a total disaster starting from pre-release, through beta, launch and halfassed approach of aoe4 devs post-release.
Nili, despite his claims of being analytical German, is very susceptible to biases due to his personal emotions.

He needs to earn back the benefit of doubt now.

 

[Springoftheking]

I watched Dash casting qualifiers with Nili. He is a good caster and knows AoE 2 somewhat well, but you could guess that AoE 2 isn't his main game. His gamesense is not same level as proper AoE 2 casters. But he did very well post game interviews.

In NAC-format casters cast with other caster or pro players so Dash won't be alone, but successful NAC-casting will require effort from him to focus finer details of the game and learn from pros.

 

[HongeyKong]

He had the power to decide which game will get the $100k tournament a year ago and he chose aoe4 instead of aoe2.
Even though the event has historically always been aoe2. Even though aoe2 had better numbers at that time. Even though aoe2 had much better future prospects. Even though whole release cycle of aoe4 was a total disaster starting from pre-release, through beta, launch and halfassed approach of aoe4 devs post-release.
Nili, despite his claims of being analytical German, is very susceptible to biases due to his personal emotions.

He needs to earn back the benefit of doubt now.

Get a job.

Ill repost again and again,

EDIT: And no, this is 120% logical, anyone who has a job knows how the business world works.

EDIT2: Here, Ill give whoever reported or deleted my original reply a lesson.

1) The event has historically always been aoe2
This is as riculous as saying USA has always been part of UK, or Taiwan has always been part of China 11

Ever heard of EVO (Evolution Championship Series)? It all started from Street Fighter in 1996, now it has Virtual Figher / Tekken / Guilty Gear / etc in it. Btw kind reminder, RedBull 1-5 only contained AOE2, what a bunch of bastards, how dare they add AOE1 and AOE4 into it, am I right?


2) Even though aoe2 had better numbers at that time
First off, you believe all the logistics / acocmodation / technical / scheduling / admin works of an event could be done within a week? Props to you then 11 AOE4 was released in late October, while N4C was ANNOUNCED in mid January when the numbers were on par with if not better than AOE2. Heck Nili even said that he plaaned N4C waaaaaaaay before the announcement. (Well he must be lying right? 11)

Second of all, just because it had better numbers doesnt mean it deserved more funding. AOE2 was a 2 (if not 22) year-old game selling at a price of USD$20 which goes on sale every month or two (Yes I know there are DLCs), while AOE4 was a brand new game which was getting sold at a price of USD$60.


3) Even though aoe2 had much better future prospects
Based on what? 11

 

[Drunken_master]

damn u business people are delusional 11

 

[Progeusz]

1) The event has historically always been aoe2
This is as riculous as saying USA has always been part of UK, or Taiwan has always been part of China 11

When that's your argument, i won't even bother reading the rest of the post 11

 

[Chezdon]

When that's your argument, i won't even bother reading the rest of the post 11

Well you should, because anyone with a brain can work out why a new game would get a higher budget. Doesn't take much to figure that one out.

And why is this thread hidden in here and not in the "Currnet Tournament" page?

 

[Shakal]

And why is this thread hidden in here and not in the "Currnet Tournament" page?

I am not entirely sure (so please correct me if I am wrong), but afaik tournament host or admin has to ask for creating tournament category under "Current Tournament" and Nili didn't do so (most probably because he quite openly dislikes AoEZone)

 

[Chezdon]

I am not entirely sure (so please correct me if I am wrong), but afaik tournament host or admin has to ask for creating tournament category under "Current Tournament" and Nili didn't do so (most probably because he quite openly dislikes AoEZone)

Yeah I just read that on the Reddit AMA he did the other day. Intradesting.

Two good series today, three stomps. Jordan's AoE is so boring to watch. Shame Daut didn't get through, love his style.

 

[LowEloNobody]

Someone please tell Dash that towers are not called "Turrets"

 

[Vossn]

3) Even though aoe2 had much better future prospects
Based on what? 11

Longevity seems like quite a decent argument tbh...

I do understand why the tournament was aoe4 though, the second argument makes sure of that.

Of course it also set bad blood by the more established aoe2 community, which has by now pretty much proven to be quite an important factor, but at the time, I think it can be considered a good business decision.

It's a similar situation as the overload on Fantasy book adaptations, which also frequently set bad blood, but try to make use of pre-established names to peak interest in the quite casual fanbase, or people who just heard of it, but never tried the original. Take LOTR for example, everyone has heard of it, but the books are a large entry point, and many people don't like reading. So they make series about it, which are strongly disliked by the fanbase of the books, but frequently can muster wide interest in wider audience. In this case, use the name of an established tournament, to create interest in the more casual tournament watching audience of a larger game.

 

[Progeusz]

because anyone with a brain can work out why a new game would get a higher budget

Your brain doesn't seem to be working. Because that's not what the topic was about. You either failed to understand it or intentionally misrepresent it. It wasn't about Microsoft investing into aoe4. It was about personal decision of single individual to choose aoe4 over aoe2.

 

[HongeyKong]

Your brain doesn't seem to be working. Because that's not what the topic was about. You either failed to understand it or intentionally misrepresent it. It wasn't about Microsoft investing into aoe4. It was about personal decision of single individual to choose aoe4 over aoe2.

Sure sure, Nili has to earn back the benefit of doubt for being an individual streamer / event organizer who has the power to decide which game gets 100k (with biases due to his personal emotions).

 

[ballink]

What was Nili’s comment on Taiwan? I missed it and then mods banned any discussion.

 

[vesnoimorskoi]

Best casters so far, I even switched from Memb's channel to watch this

 

[Tuunbaq]

What was Nili’s comment on Taiwan? I missed it and then mods banned any discussion.

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