NAC 4 - Caster Discussions

[Potkeny]

This is the case for literally everyone on AoeZone. Should we all be invited as casters then?

Do we have all years of experience being on stream (even if as a host) of a professional (and more popular than aoe) production and a relative big following outside of the aoe-scene?

Not saying Dash is the best caster to get invited, but he plays the game at least since 2017 (being in Team Viper during the Viper vs DauT showmatch) and co-casted with T90 in 2018, so saying he doesn't care about the game and will forget about it after NAC sounds wrong, which is why I quoted that part.

I personally would use neither Memb nor Nili, but that's my taste and it's not my tournament.

 

[archxeon]

He's not a streamer, only started streaming in January and he's made it very clear he doesn't want to be a full-time streamer.

But if you want an idea of how big his reach is, Viper and T90 have both around 30k followers on Twitter, Dash has 130k.

I'm not defending (or attacking) his choice as a caster, just saying that comparing Twitch numbers doesn't give the full picture.

Does twitter following lead to increased viewership? Based on his twitch viewership, it doesn't seem so. But lets be optimistic and assume he doesn't promote his twitch on his twitter etc.

I'm not defending (or attacking) his choice as a caster, I'm just wondering if that aspect (if it was) of choosing him as a caster will be justified.

He might turn out to be better than any host we've had so far. I rank Riley Knight the best I've seen in aoe up until now and Dash may do a better, equivalent or slightly worse job and which are all fine. He will also likely improve the professional aspect of the tournament (although for NAC, wonder if its a tiny bit counterintuitive).

 

[MaSmOrRa]

Does twitter following lead to increased viewership? Based on his twitch viewership, it doesn't seem so. But lets be optimistic and assume he doesn't promote his twitch on his twitter etc.

I'm not defending (or attacking) his choice as a caster, I'm just wondering if that aspect (if it was) of choosing him as a caster will be justified.

He might turn out to be better than any host we've had so far. I rank Riley Knight the best I've seen in aoe up until now and Dash may do a better, equivalent or slightly worse job and which are all fine. He will also likely improve the professional aspect of the tournament (although for NAC, wonder if its a tiny bit counterintuitive).

Oh but I'm not saying Nili invited him *because* of his reach!

That might have played a role too, but if I had to guess, I think Nili invited him because he really likes Dash as a caster!

And by the way Dash will not be a host at NAC, so we can't really compare him to Riley.

 

[Progeusz]

He's not a streamer, only started streaming in January and he's made it very clear he doesn't want to be a full-time streamer.

But if you want an idea of how big his reach is, Viper and T90 have both around 30k followers on Twitter, Dash has 130k.

I'm not defending (or attacking) his choice as a caster, just saying that comparing Twitch numbers doesn't give the full picture.

Thanks for letting me know. Hmm twitter followers numbers are a metric that is very hard to estimate properly, i've seen many examples where account X had a lot more engagement than account Y despite five times less followers, there's also big variation depending on target audience (younger people are a lot more likely to use twitter, fossils who are into 20yo games not as much 11) but 130k is definitely a large number.

 

[Chezdon]

Two NA accents are enough. Will just be tuning into Memb's stream. Can be seen as a business decision (growth etc) but it's also clearly a "you don't fit in here" snub. Must've felt **** when Memb found that out. But life goes on!

Always found it a little weird when Nili donated $1k to Memb back in Sep last year (1,000 day in a row stream). Almost like guilt-money lol.

 

[LowEloNobody]

Two NA accents are enough. Will just be tuning into Memb's stream. Can be seen as a business decision (growth etc) but it's also clearly a "you don't fit in here" snub. Must've felt **** when Memb found that out. But life goes on!

Always found it a little weird when Nili donated $1k to Memb back in Sep last year (1,000 day in a row stream). Almost like guilt-money lol.

Or maybe there isn't a huge personal drama and it's just a business decision to bring in more outside talent?

 

[Drunken_master]

do u rly need outside talent when we have enough inside talent?

 

[LowEloNobody]

do u rly need outside talent when we have enough inside talent?

If you are trying to bring in viewers that are not currently part of the Age community, and think that outside talent has some amount of following, then yes.

 

[SquattingSlav]

I actually think it would be great if he would slowly move into AoE ... AoE seems stable, has a massive following and with xbox new content is coming out.
You can learn the game `quickly`. Knowing how to entertain takes years of training ...

 

[oozkan]

If you are trying to bring in viewers that are not currently part of the Age community, and think that outside talent has some amount of following, then yes.

For the sake of losing existing customer though?

Just asking, in business perspective.

 

[SquattingSlav]

With that logic we should still have the same casters as 3 years ago as the new ones are ruining the brand?

 

[LowEloNobody]

For the sake of losing existing customer though?

Just asking, in business perspective.

What viewer is he going to lose?
All the memb loberbois will just... watch memb?
No one is going to boycott the tourney because Memb is streaming on his channel instead of Nilis

 

[Kurti26]

For the sake of losing existing customer though?

Just asking, in business perspective.

Why would aoe2 lose any of us, just because of a new caster?

 

[kalpit00]

For the sake of losing existing customer though?

Just asking, in business perspective.

bringing in a new caster can only bring potential new viewers from their playerbase. All those who prefer an old caster can watch on their stream. And I predict someone of Dash's status will definitely bring more people to AoE scene. If you haven't noticed, Dash just ended his decade long contract with LoL. Just how a 5k twitter following personality like Memb has his loverboys fanbase who would do anything to watch him cast, I am fairly certain a 121k twitter following personality like Dash will have his own set of fanbase who would be willing to follow him on his next venture. Dash investing his time into Age of Empires and being chosen to cast in NAC4 will most likely bring a net profit in terms of viewerbase (by how much is yet to see, but I would imagine Memb might average <1000 viewers on his channel, and considering how Dash is well known in multiple RTS communities, I would wager that number would be atleast 1000 if not more) - here's your business perspective

 

[Chanson]

Considering Memb was consistently getting more viewers than Nili during the qualifiers, I highly doubt he is going to get fewer than 1000 viewers during the main event.

 

[archxeon]

bringing in a new caster can only bring potential new viewers from their playerbase. All those who prefer an old caster can watch on their stream. And I predict someone of Dash's status will definitely bring more people to AoE scene. If you haven't noticed, Dash just ended his decade long contract with LoL. Just how a 5k twitter following personality like Memb has his loverboys fanbase who would do anything to watch him cast, I am fairly certain a 121k twitter following personality like Dash will have his own set of fanbase who would be willing to follow him on his next venture. Dash investing his time into Age of Empires and being chosen to cast in NAC4 will most likely bring a net profit in terms of viewerbase (by how much is yet to see, but I would imagine Memb might average <1000 viewers on his channel, and considering how Dash is well known in multiple RTS communities, I would wager that number would be atleast 1000 if not more) - here's your business perspective

There are some reasons to be skeptical. https://www.aoezone.net/threads/nac-4-caster-discussions.185645/post-797383

 

[Shakal]

considering how Dash is well known in multiple RTS communities, I would wager that number would be atleast 1000 if not more

yes, someone who can't bring 300 viewers to his own stream will bring >1000 to someone else's channel streaming different game.

I think that follower numbers generally don't translate that easily to fanbase, many people may follow some personalities just to keep in touch with the scene, but may not be really fans. For example, I don't watch Nili's stream at all, but follow him on twitter to know what's new in AoE2.

Also, if you look at twitch followers instead, you can see memb at over 100k and Dash at 22k. Which follower number is more important? I am not sure, but imo neither

 

[SquattingSlav]

Anyway, memb and Ornlu will cast anyway on their channel and get viewers, Dash is an extra caster as a follower. I am happy ...

 

[kalpit00]

yes, someone who can't bring 300 viewers to his own stream will bring >1000 to someone else's channel streaming different game.

I think that follower numbers generally don't translate that easily to fanbase, many people may follow some personalities just to keep in touch with the scene, but may not be really fans. For example, I don't watch Nili's stream at all, but follow him on twitter to know what's new in AoE2.

Also, if you look at twitch followers instead, you can see memb at over 100k and Dash at 22k. Which follower number is more important? I am not sure, but imo neither

Twitter following, word gets travelled. Memb will only bring people who are already part of the aoe community, Dash will bring people from different communities. Honestly, I don't see why people don't understand the caster choice. I don't even follow Dash on twitch, yet I find his "sub-optimal" cast more engaging than beloved casters who I have watched hundreds of time. Also, providing a coverage tailored to a wider audience is probably the #1 priority this time considering the whole game plan is to attract viewers from Dash's LoL fanbase.

 

[kalpit00]

And to stress another point I have noticed, I don't think Dash streams that often. He is more of a well known host who is popular because he hosts LoL events on the official page. Same story like Riley Knight. So arguing that Dash has less twitch followers or that he got <300 viewers on his stream is pointless, because he doesn't necessarily want to stream or grow his channel (kind of assuming here, but seeing how for a decade he has been happy with the role of hosting, it seems the case).

 

[otw_Da]

So to attract people from twitter community and bring them to AoE is a new archivment? Are you sure that is a good idea?
I just notice twitter from the outside and what I notice most people of twitter community are very toxic, extrimists, karens, people that go to a rural resturant with hearty food and complain that there is no vegan alternative. Do you really want such people playing AoE? If they notice most of people only wanna play arabia, they will go wild about the "patriarchal" or they call the yellow border on nomad racism to asian people.
I hope you enjoyed my little trollpost (there is maybe more truth in it, then I can foresee).
I just find it very funny that people with very strict negativ view on memb treat Sir Dash as the new savior. Very based.

 

[Chanson]

We get the point, we’re just skeptical that his notoriety will actually expand the audience and concerned about undermining the core product and audience through the exclusion of certain casters. So far, the only data we have are a few co-casts (which haven’t been analyzed in terms of viewership), Twitter follower numbers, Twitch viewership/followers, and the fact that it doesn’t seem like the addition of the outside caster has convinced sponsors (although that’s admittedly probably a reflection of the economy and the viability of e-sports). Most of those are unknown or negative signs thus far.

An alternative way of looking at this would be to say that retrenchment should lead to a consolidation of existing strengths rather than trying to gamble on big productions and expanding the audience.

 

[Paulad]

It's always fun seeing someone saying that Memb is a bad caster (refering to first page of the topic with the coward who does not assume his words) while the guy is almost #1 viewers in every open casting tournament. Memb may not be professional in the categories that define a good caster for you, but he is in all the others.
I love his capacity to hype events/matches/little things and I can't find this anywhere else. Learning about the game while watching a stream is cool but sometimes you just want to disconnect your brain and enjoy the show. And if you go futher than aoe2, casters are just 100x crazier than memb.
Since the tourney is open casting, I will probably watch OGN and Memb stream. I'm not saying the others are bad, but these 2 fit so well of what I expect of a viewer experience.

Just wanted to show my love cause first messages of the topic were so undeserved. (and that's not a hate message for other casters).

 

[OGN]

No reason to raise this kind of message Paulad, there may be 10 people who denigrate Memb, meanwhile there are thousands of others who will support him and that's beautiful =)

 

[amazing_knight]

Imagine calling someone who streamed ~1000 days in a row as unprofessional.

Memb's commitment and dedication to this game is unparalleled.