NAC 3 Main Event - All Info

MoNkEy_MoNk · Jan 11, 2020

We have got some real cry babies on this form. **** man I'd pay money to have some of these people shut the **** up.

archxeon · Jan 11, 2020

yufzsy said:
Maybe you should give a match ever been played that viper dominated yo and then worry about the rest.

Man I was so wrong. That first game from Yo was awesome.

Jarvin · Jan 11, 2020

MoNkEy_MoNk said:
We have got some real cry babies on this form. **** man I'd pay money to have some of these people shut the **** up.

And thus, you have become the very thing you swore to destroy

Shangri-La · Jan 11, 2020

Any meetup streaming/footage?

Poxo · Jan 11, 2020

Shangri-La said:
Any meetup streaming/footage?

Twitch

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tresu · Jan 11, 2020

The pathing is really ugly and spoiling the game, the instant conversion, the sound effects etc etc
To think that we are going to be left with this DE version for future tournaments, sigh....
(Not your fault Nili, but I feel that we have been robbed of a game that we love)

KolyaKrasotkin · Jan 11, 2020

nimanoe said:
I don't agree with your second point that you can't compare the two instances, since the rule to change Buchholz was mainly made to make the scenario more fair for TheMax and also hurts anyone who doesnt have a high Buchholz score when the change was made.

The point is that the second change did hurt specific people (DauT, Villese), whereas the first benefitted TheMax in an hypothetical situation two rounds later.
And Buchholz is the most important and logical tie-breaker in a swiss system, so that "correction" of the rules was far less arbitrary than changing the pairings for the last round.

doacid · Jan 11, 2020

MaSmOrRa said:
I have a suspicion that people who call this a “drama”, haven’t actually ever had a real drama happen in their lives.
Good for them, I hope it stays that way.

I think it's more like whoever lives it as a drama will call it that, so for them it is in fact a drama. For instance some people will experience anything that is contrary to their view as a drama of sorts, and they will either oppose it or try to ignore it, but feeling the drama either way. Whereas you might live it in a different way and it's just an exchange of opinions, a discussion, etc...

So from a certain perspective it's not either drama nor it isn't, but rather you YOU experience it. Just as life.

dooog · Jan 12, 2020

That was a really great series between Viper and Yo. Not often you see 2 great players both playing close to their best in such a high stakes series.

But DE is still dogshit

paraproduct · Jan 12, 2020

Game 4 of Viper vs Yo is so exciting. Yo has again proved he is one of the best tower rush players: Last sumin MSC he was the Korean trush king, and this time becomes Inca trush king 111111111.

JoshuaR · Jan 12, 2020

joenososlow said:
@Nili_AoE - a small bit of advice: have the caster face each other instead of away. Their focal point should be the middle of the screen instead of the outside edges. This should help with caster cohesion and it make it less awkward in the booth.

That's an idea; however, if the monitors are slightly angled toward one another, then the casters can share a screen or look over to make sure the co-caster is noticing the same things, etc. If the computers are angled away from each other, then you couldn't do this.

archxeon said:
Man I was so wrong. That first game from Yo was awesome.

Yo was a beast. So glad he was able to come to the tourney!

ryannayr140 · Jan 12, 2020

vrubson said:
For me the most in-game insight was given by hera/Liereeey/viper when they were casting. It's amazing how diffrent we can watch NAC3 from their perspective, from that we can acttually learn the mechanics how the game is played. And this is the main problem casting from casters (not all ofc) They have great voice, great attitude but they are not adding anything to the casting besides "you are absolutly right" "he is moving 3 vill to stone" "this can be maa or archer" "maybe fast castle or just play into archers" like we can see all of it by ourselfs and beside that they are just not adding anything more - just raw facts without any "intel" - even misleading the audience, which is the worst.
I know its very hard to choose which one will be casting semis and final, but i'm sure there should be atleast one of pro player in duo - never caster caster its just not working -> (from my poin of view ofc)

Anyway all things consider for me NAC3 is way ahead of NAC2 -> great tournament with great games!

I disagree, Daut and Hera should cast the finals together. Also we need to play an additional game between Yo and Tatoh to replace Hera's now empty spot.

edit: jokes aside t90 and nili are well into the top 100 have watched thousands of games and are more than qualified to provide expert opinions on the match. I doubt there will be any games with out at least one of them present. The 2 players most qualified to be a co-caster are both playing unfortunately.

Syphax · Jan 12, 2020

Just 2 random thoughts:

1. Dave is a great caster. He is very fun, entertaining and friendly, but still informative and knowledgable about the game. Some people call him "the best CO-caster", but I feel that doesn't do him justice at all. Dave is a great caster overall, even as the main caster. Obviously t90 is great as well, probably the top caster in terms of quality, and t90+Dave have a great chemistry.

2. Viper's performance is incredible. He has played very little DE when compared to other top players, e.g.:

- Viper: 125 games
- Yo: 287 games
- Hera: 500 (!) games

Even before that on Voobly, Viper played a lot less in 2019 than most other top players. Despite that, he is in incredible shape and plays amazingly. Of course people are used to Viper being a great player by now and Viper obv has a lot of general Aoe2 experience which is very relevant for DE as well. But considering the change of the feel of the game, the new meta etc, his performance is no small feat.

Naturally this doesn't take away from the other players. Hera is amazing and his investment and training in DE is impressive. I love his attitude and skill. But I feel Viper, due to his longtime dominance, doesn't get as much credit anymore. /fanboy rant

Tendo · Jan 12, 2020

Robo and Nili: There aren't that many mirror games in NAC3.

Grand Final: First 3 Games all mirror :speechless:

Spaden · Jan 12, 2020

Shocking that the players pick the best civ for the map in a final.

Tendo · Jan 12, 2020

Spaden said:
Shocking that the players pick the best civ for the map in a final.

So you imply they didn't in the group stage / QF / SF? :roflmao:

Spaden · Jan 12, 2020

Tendo said:
So you imply they didn't in the group stage / QF / SF?

Well no I don't think everyone picks the best meta pick for the specific map since there are bigger skill differences. We have the two best players left and Hera won't pick inca for islands since he believes he can beat viper with Italians. It can't be surprising that they pick mongols for a hunt heavy open land map and then italians for a water map? They could have obviously picked something else than aztec for arabia, but it's still the most solid choice.

Tendo · Jan 12, 2020

Spaden said:
They could have obviously picked something else than aztec for arabia, but it's still the most solid choice.

Yes you only made it sound like it's mirror because players only now try to use the best civs on each map, obviously it's 100% understandable that the players picked the civs they picked.

But it shows that hidden pick civ no repeat has some flaws after all, because obviously 3 mirror matches in a row in the Grand Final is not what you want.

iViktorius · Jan 12, 2020

Tendo said:
Yes you only made it sound like it's mirror because players only now try to use the best civs on each map, obviously it's 100% understandable that the players picked the civs they picked.

But it shows that hidden pick civ no repeat has some flaws after all, because obviously 3 mirror matches in a row in the Grand Final is not what you want.

You want a final with subpar civ picks because of some rules?

"Hey Messi we know you like to shoot with left leg, but that's boring for viewers, so now you have to use right and left leg alternating."

Hidden pick no repeat is the best format.

ZeroEmpires · Jan 12, 2020

What’s wrong with mirror civs though? If you want to find which player is best then a fair map and equal civs provides the best circumstance to find out. Not every game is going to be mirror, but the ones that are have been just as exciting too.

Syphax · Jan 12, 2020

It's not as exciting when civ bonuses and limitations don't really matter so much, because everyone has access to the same units and techs.

It's the same reason we don't have exactly mirrored maps like SC2, but RNG maps. It creates diversity and different outcomes, which is fun to watch.

Ultimately, it comes down to what you prefer: do you want the "fairest possible" MU, 100% competitive, or do you prefer to have some variety as a viewer, as long as it is still reasonably fair?

TheCapybara · Jan 12, 2020

ZeroEmpires said:
What’s wrong with mirror civs though? If you want to find which player is best then a fair map and equal civs provides the best circumstance to find out. Not every game is going to be mirror, but the ones that are have been just as exciting too.

Completely agree. This blend of mirrors and non-mirrors I think has made NAC3 as a whole really exciting. Sometimes seeing how players can adapt the same advantages for different purposes is really exciting, sometimes seeing how players balance two varying sets of options is incredibly fun. I've loved the variety we've seen in gameplay as a result as well as the skill they've had to demonstrate at times. Perfect for a tournament like this!

MaSmOrRa · Jan 12, 2020

Awesome segment going atm with Daut and Liereyy analyzing the first 5 games.
So enlightening.

This is the best way to use pro players in a cast imo, in a specific segment with all the time in the world to talk about strategy.

IamJeo · Jan 12, 2020

Despite being only 2/3 expert commentary, I think that was the single best NAC3 segment yet.

Ghazna · Jan 12, 2020

iViktorius said:
You want a final with subpar civ picks because of some rules?

If both have to pick sub-par civs, does that make it less exciting? Like a Turks/Sara/Khmer? I don't think so..

I think I would prefer to see those mirrors than a million times seen aztec/mayan/mongol/persian mirror or non-mirror matchup.

Nontheless the final games so far been awesome!

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