Freezing_Point
Am I missing anything? I cant find any relevant info in chrazinis post that wasnt in heras tweet already. The only difference is their opinions.
My side of the story
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Chrazini
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poncilianoI gotcha. Well, can't blame me for feeling provoked after being called a troll.
I don't really think it's "cancel culture" from our part. I'm holding the debate exactly where it belongs. And in a respectful and rational manner. I won't mail nasty messages to Hera or any other, or even talk about this in other places if the topic isn't brought. Very different to what happened to Chrazini.
Sorry. I shouldn't have called anyone a troll, that was quite insincere of me
lecracheursagaciteDid I say that? Sorry then. I meant that he received nasty messages. Not that everybody who disagrees with him did it. Hope it's clarified now.
SuperskinnyBLSIt seems that Hera's tweet was just a revenge on You for excluding him from the tournament.
ZueKamothis is the part I see totally arbitrary. why some players can delay the matches?
When I was a chess player in all the tournaments, players who don't showed on time received different kinds of penalties.
But in this tournament 2 players were allowed to delay their match. which indirectly made another player feel he could also delay it.
For real though, i'm happy that I didn't sign up for this event. Being Aussie with an 11 pm start I would be staying up all through the night if I somehow made it through the rounds. No way I would be performing well at all LUL
As for this drama, pity that the reschedule could not take place, I understand being rigid with the rules to an extent. As stated already however it was the last round match of qualifiers for day 1, no one would have been held up on day 2 given the newly arranged time yet still the series was not allowed to be played.
Seems weird to me especially given it's an online event and not a LAN where such timings are absolutely set in stone and where day 1 matches happen on day 1 with no exception before everyone heads away from the event location and waits for it to reopen at a specific time the next day.
Is it the way the site is programmed that results cannot be entered in after a certain time?? probably not but who knows.
Is it simply because rule book states day 1, these rounds are played and for day 2, these rounds only are played? Maybe.
Is it because casters are also needing to reschedule to cover this new time the next day, thus increasing the amount of time they will need to stream on day 2? likely a reason as well, castors should also be taken into consideration. However this doesn't make sense, admin loss means that there is no game to cast so it won't matter if the casters can't make it to the rescheduled time because it would not be cast anyway due to the game simply already set to AW for F1re.
Regardless, seems that Chrazini had no choice but to go ahead with the admin loss approach.
Maybe something to look into for the next event though for these moments to see if something could potentially be changed allowing such emergency reschedules. Maybe it's not possible for anything to be changed though and that's fine too. As long as an attempt is done to find a workaround.
For those saying that players are just gonna be abusing this 'rescheduling for another day' if this instance was allowed, yea nah mate. Give the players some respect please.
Allowing the players flexibility if the situation demands it and especially if nothing is delayed regarding tournament schedule it is always the fair approach. Bugum himself stated that he would be fine with an admin loss if he indeed wasn't allowed to reschedule for the next day or couldn't get the games played on 'Day 1', but he could have at least got them played, there was a time slot on day 2 but from Chrazini's POV it was impossible to do so for one reason or another.
Alright that's all I wanted to say on this drama topic,
Chrazini mate keep up the solid work man, admin life really sucks sometimes. Thankyou for doing so much with all the tournaments you've been involved in, i've always enjoyed both competing in them and watching.
To those qualified to main event, have a blast and best of luck. Don't get too hungover on the day of competition ay, looking at you GL bois
To the casters so far, thankyou for covering as many qualifier matches as you could and giving some spicy commentary, very entertaining!
Everyone else, lets enjoy the show eh. Been quite a while since we were lucky enough to have a LAN and they are always amazing.
As for this drama, pity that the reschedule could not take place, I understand being rigid with the rules to an extent. As stated already however it was the last round match of qualifiers for day 1, no one would have been held up on day 2 given the newly arranged time yet still the series was not allowed to be played.
Seems weird to me especially given it's an online event and not a LAN where such timings are absolutely set in stone and where day 1 matches happen on day 1 with no exception before everyone heads away from the event location and waits for it to reopen at a specific time the next day.
Is it the way the site is programmed that results cannot be entered in after a certain time?? probably not but who knows.
Is it simply because rule book states day 1, these rounds are played and for day 2, these rounds only are played? Maybe.
Is it because casters are also needing to reschedule to cover this new time the next day, thus increasing the amount of time they will need to stream on day 2? likely a reason as well, castors should also be taken into consideration. However this doesn't make sense, admin loss means that there is no game to cast so it won't matter if the casters can't make it to the rescheduled time because it would not be cast anyway due to the game simply already set to AW for F1re.
Regardless, seems that Chrazini had no choice but to go ahead with the admin loss approach.
Maybe something to look into for the next event though for these moments to see if something could potentially be changed allowing such emergency reschedules. Maybe it's not possible for anything to be changed though and that's fine too. As long as an attempt is done to find a workaround.
For those saying that players are just gonna be abusing this 'rescheduling for another day' if this instance was allowed, yea nah mate. Give the players some respect please.
Allowing the players flexibility if the situation demands it and especially if nothing is delayed regarding tournament schedule it is always the fair approach. Bugum himself stated that he would be fine with an admin loss if he indeed wasn't allowed to reschedule for the next day or couldn't get the games played on 'Day 1', but he could have at least got them played, there was a time slot on day 2 but from Chrazini's POV it was impossible to do so for one reason or another.
Alright that's all I wanted to say on this drama topic,
Chrazini mate keep up the solid work man, admin life really sucks sometimes. Thankyou for doing so much with all the tournaments you've been involved in, i've always enjoyed both competing in them and watching.
To those qualified to main event, have a blast and best of luck. Don't get too hungover on the day of competition ay, looking at you GL bois
To the casters so far, thankyou for covering as many qualifier matches as you could and giving some spicy commentary, very entertaining!
Everyone else, lets enjoy the show eh. Been quite a while since we were lucky enough to have a LAN and they are always amazing.
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The distored perception and airs from some people are just shocking.
"Does he really have to wait for 3 hrs ...?" YES, GODDAMNIT, YES, YES! This is a weekend tournament, it is absolutely normal that you have to wait. As someone else mentioned the basketball example, this is the same in almost any other sports, be it on pro or on pleb level. You are dependent on when other games finish and you may need to wait, simple as that.
Can we please stop talking about how Belgium had to play at 2am? HE HAD TO PLAY AT 9:30PM HIS TIME!! It was only after he wasn't able to do that, which means that he didn't agree to the rules and settings, that playing at 12:30am or something even came into question.
Do I think that playing at 11GMT on Sunday would have been better? No clue, honestly. There are advantages and disadvantages to that (e.g. the recs won't be ready for casters to cast, so either cast live earlier than planned or not at all).
Do I think that F1Re delayed his previous set(s)? No clue but I wouldn't be surprised. Consciously or not, he has delayed many sets in previous RBW qualifiers and never got punished for that.
But that all doesn't change the fact that you should agree to the rules and settings when you sign up and have to play when you are supposed to within somewhat reasonable boundaries. If you can't do that, you are fully dependent on the goodwill of your opponent(s) and the admin and they may have many other arguments to consider when making decisions.
"Does he really have to wait for 3 hrs ...?" YES, GODDAMNIT, YES, YES! This is a weekend tournament, it is absolutely normal that you have to wait. As someone else mentioned the basketball example, this is the same in almost any other sports, be it on pro or on pleb level. You are dependent on when other games finish and you may need to wait, simple as that.
Can we please stop talking about how Belgium had to play at 2am? HE HAD TO PLAY AT 9:30PM HIS TIME!! It was only after he wasn't able to do that, which means that he didn't agree to the rules and settings, that playing at 12:30am or something even came into question.
Do I think that playing at 11GMT on Sunday would have been better? No clue, honestly. There are advantages and disadvantages to that (e.g. the recs won't be ready for casters to cast, so either cast live earlier than planned or not at all).
Do I think that F1Re delayed his previous set(s)? No clue but I wouldn't be surprised. Consciously or not, he has delayed many sets in previous RBW qualifiers and never got punished for that.
But that all doesn't change the fact that you should agree to the rules and settings when you sign up and have to play when you are supposed to within somewhat reasonable boundaries. If you can't do that, you are fully dependent on the goodwill of your opponent(s) and the admin and they may have many other arguments to consider when making decisions.
Are people really complaining about Bugum's late playtime while the communtiy has continuously been forcing the Asian scene to start their sets at 1:00 their time ( at best ) 
Are people really complaining about Bugum's late playtime while the communtiy has continuously been forcing the Asian scene to start their sets at 1:00 their time ( at best )
when half the community plays until late night on weekends
Yes you missed something: This is not about an "opinion".
Its about the rules have been broken. They are clear and undiscussable.
Some people are referring to the rules agreement, some think the rules are not important.
zShades
MadeByJoeYou do realize there is a difference between having to start early/late and spacing out your matches into the night, right?Are people really complaining about Bugum's late playtime while the communtiy has continuously been forcing the Asian scene to start their sets at 1:00 their time ( at best )
Yeah I agree being required to work a night shift is different than being required to work late one day. They both suck however so he is not totally wrong to compare them.
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It's not the "admin call" that is terrible, it's malicious intentions of the tweet of Hera that's terrible.
I don't understand why people in this community don't apologize for their actions.
Hera should apologize to Chrazini for his dumbass tweet and remove it from twitter.
I don't understand why people in this community don't apologize for their actions.
Hera should apologize to Chrazini for his dumbass tweet and remove it from twitter.
You do realize that many Asian players are not full time age or have families and hence do not have the luxury of living during the night, which means for them it's an extra long day?
The format of the qualifier and the fact so many games and sets are condensed makes it unfortunately more likely for such events to happen, and to many players to have to play at less than ideal times (EU time zone is definitely very favored though).
I haven’t read through the entire topic and I am sure I don’t have all the information on this topic to make a clear statement here. However, I want to address certain points we all should keep in mind when approaching those kind of events:
- Being an administrator is like being the referee in football. No matter what you do, you will not make everyone satisfied. It is a job where you get a lot of negative emotions. Considering that, I am very happy for everyone who voluntarily executes this job.
- While I agree that in some situations it makes sense to not always enforce the rules 100% (as rules can be vague sometimes) and use the human side – it should still be an exception. Rules are there to be followed and it’s the players responsibility to follow those rules and listen to the admins. If a tournament of this caliber happens, you don’t schedule anything for the day after the tournament has begun.
- Apparently, the Fire vs Stark set was delayed massively as well. I don’t know the reason. It definitely makes sense to look into those incidents as well and try to minimize delays in the future as theses have a bad snow-ball effect, obviously.
- The most important thing for me personally:
We MUST stop jumping into conclusion – where we don’t even have the full information – and let our emotions drive our behavior, which for some people might lead to verbally attack others. That is by far the dumbest thing you can do. With that behavior, you are just pushing worthy people away. Keep in mind, we are all humans and we all do mistakes (that’s how we learn). Criticism is good and should be wanted, but always in a respectful manner. - I, personally, am very happy Chrazini is in our community. For me he is one of the best admins I have witnessed and I hope that this situation won’t take a negative toll on you.
- Very sorry for Bugum as well that things turned out the way they did.
sometimes i wonder, if people do remember things they said not even three weeks ago:
https://clips.twitch.tv/ShakingAgreeableAnteaterPeoplesChamp-CdKKm1I6t3kHQUFh
if anyone is interested in heras mindset towards rules, how it is the admins job to make sure the players know and follow them, and not the players responsibility themselves, and how he would have liked special treatment (besides saying he does not want, but who cares about the things one said a few seconds ago), feel free to watch the following 3-4 minutes of that stream.
https://clips.twitch.tv/ShakingAgreeableAnteaterPeoplesChamp-CdKKm1I6t3kHQUFh
if anyone is interested in heras mindset towards rules, how it is the admins job to make sure the players know and follow them, and not the players responsibility themselves, and how he would have liked special treatment (besides saying he does not want, but who cares about the things one said a few seconds ago), feel free to watch the following 3-4 minutes of that stream.
Well, you jumped into a wrong conclusion as well, since St4rk vs F1re wasn’t delayed “massively“. Read Lord Patito’s last post for reference. You demonstrated your own point.
PROject_BelgiumOK since this has blown up I will give my full side of the story.
Firstly I do not condone harrasing admins, their job is hard enough as it is so harrassing them is a bridge too far for me.
Now on my RBW tournament experience.
I've always been a player that tries to finish his sets as fast as possible to ensure no delays can happen in the tournament. From doing this I noticed that there were always some sets in the later rounds that caused me to wait for an hour+ since other series usually can drag out longer or have some delays.
This Redbull edition the same happenend twice. Firstly in the Spring vs Tulendeena series where I saw Spring (and his opponent) forget to put on a time limit which caused game 1 to take 1hr35mins. Eventually I waited an hour till I got to play spring when we finally met. After that set had finished I had a bit more than an hour of time available till I had to pick up family members from the airport.
I knew I still had to play one more series (bo5). When I checked the other side of the brackets however I saw that F1re was still playing the round before he had to face off against st4rk for the decider who had to play me. So I instantly knew there was no chance I would be able to play them. So I told that to chrazini and wrote both f1re and st4rk if they would accept playing me the next day before the start of day 2 at 13GMT. Both agreed and I forwarded that information to chrazini. Chrazini was adamant on that fact that it would delay the tight tournament schedule and denied the request saying he would still want me to play today. I was a bit annoyed with this since this situatin was allowed all the other editions.
Later I checked on my phone and saw that F1re won. I got home at 1.30am and Chrazini told me F1re would be home in 30mins so we should be playing when he gets home. Initially I said ok. Chrazini told me the rules and said he would go to sleep. So after waiting an hour I get a message from F1re that he was back home from his covid test. At this point it was already 2.30am and I felt like I could fall asleep at any moment. So, I asked f1re if he was still down to play tomorrow at 11GMT. He agreed. I knew chrazini wanted me to play now so I told F1re if the admin doesn't accept this again, I will take the AL since technically F1re was available to play at that point. F1re wrote that to Chrazini. The reason why I didn't write chrazini anymore on discord was 1: he was not online anymore and 2: There would be a possibilty F1re was still awake when Chrazini woke up on sunday so they could resolve it. At 3am I was asleep and woke up at like 10.30 the next morning.
Chrazini told me I got AL for not having played the games and he was mad that he had to find out everything through F1re. I still explained to him that we will play today at 11GMT and there will be no interference with the schedule. But the AL was definitive so nothing would change.
I was quite upset with the admin ruling since all the previous redbull editions there were sets being played before the start of the 2d day. That sunday morning F1re wrote me on discord at 10.45GMT that he was ready to play but saw that I already had an AL.
Now on the F1re situation: I see alot of ppl blaming him for the delays. I do not know why there were such severe delays but I do know from talking with F1re that he was really sick and even went for a covid test later that day. F1re was really cooperative in my request to play on sunday so for that I have respect.
I would have been fine with an AL if F1re didn't accept to play on sunday 11GMT or if there was an ACTUAL DELAY OF THE SCHEDULE on sunday. I was baffeled to see that F1re vs Slam was played at 15.30 GMT so in no universe would my bo5 at 11GMT delay the set at 15.30GMT.
To conclude I hope for the future admins take into consideration situations like these. I felt like I offered a fair solution but I always got a big fat NO. I know as an admin it's your job to ensure a smooth tournament experience but in this situation I didn't hinder it in any shape or form.
Firstly I do not condone harrasing admins, their job is hard enough as it is so harrassing them is a bridge too far for me.
Now on my RBW tournament experience.
I've always been a player that tries to finish his sets as fast as possible to ensure no delays can happen in the tournament. From doing this I noticed that there were always some sets in the later rounds that caused me to wait for an hour+ since other series usually can drag out longer or have some delays.
This Redbull edition the same happenend twice. Firstly in the Spring vs Tulendeena series where I saw Spring (and his opponent) forget to put on a time limit which caused game 1 to take 1hr35mins. Eventually I waited an hour till I got to play spring when we finally met. After that set had finished I had a bit more than an hour of time available till I had to pick up family members from the airport.
I knew I still had to play one more series (bo5). When I checked the other side of the brackets however I saw that F1re was still playing the round before he had to face off against st4rk for the decider who had to play me. So I instantly knew there was no chance I would be able to play them. So I told that to chrazini and wrote both f1re and st4rk if they would accept playing me the next day before the start of day 2 at 13GMT. Both agreed and I forwarded that information to chrazini. Chrazini was adamant on that fact that it would delay the tight tournament schedule and denied the request saying he would still want me to play today. I was a bit annoyed with this since this situatin was allowed all the other editions.
Later I checked on my phone and saw that F1re won. I got home at 1.30am and Chrazini told me F1re would be home in 30mins so we should be playing when he gets home. Initially I said ok. Chrazini told me the rules and said he would go to sleep. So after waiting an hour I get a message from F1re that he was back home from his covid test. At this point it was already 2.30am and I felt like I could fall asleep at any moment. So, I asked f1re if he was still down to play tomorrow at 11GMT. He agreed. I knew chrazini wanted me to play now so I told F1re if the admin doesn't accept this again, I will take the AL since technically F1re was available to play at that point. F1re wrote that to Chrazini. The reason why I didn't write chrazini anymore on discord was 1: he was not online anymore and 2: There would be a possibilty F1re was still awake when Chrazini woke up on sunday so they could resolve it. At 3am I was asleep and woke up at like 10.30 the next morning.
Chrazini told me I got AL for not having played the games and he was mad that he had to find out everything through F1re. I still explained to him that we will play today at 11GMT and there will be no interference with the schedule. But the AL was definitive so nothing would change.
I was quite upset with the admin ruling since all the previous redbull editions there were sets being played before the start of the 2d day. That sunday morning F1re wrote me on discord at 10.45GMT that he was ready to play but saw that I already had an AL.
Now on the F1re situation: I see alot of ppl blaming him for the delays. I do not know why there were such severe delays but I do know from talking with F1re that he was really sick and even went for a covid test later that day. F1re was really cooperative in my request to play on sunday so for that I have respect.
I would have been fine with an AL if F1re didn't accept to play on sunday 11GMT or if there was an ACTUAL DELAY OF THE SCHEDULE on sunday. I was baffeled to see that F1re vs Slam was played at 15.30 GMT so in no universe would my bo5 at 11GMT delay the set at 15.30GMT.
To conclude I hope for the future admins take into consideration situations like these. I felt like I offered a fair solution but I always got a big fat NO. I know as an admin it's your job to ensure a smooth tournament experience but in this situation I didn't hinder it in any shape or form.
But Hera said in February:
(Source)
And remember, for Hera you're not allowed to have an opinion for yourself, so be cautious of what you think.
(Source)
Come on, why some players feel so entitled. Should have been banned since this event occurred: https://www.aoezone.net/threads/when-pro-is-smurfing.156287/
Oh bUT He'S sO YoUNg. Yeah, sure, he's 21, not 14.
/rant
I mean... this says everything. Do we want a professional environemnt for a 100000$ event or do we treat it like it's just a couple of friends organizing a 100$ showmatch? Player should be thankful for the level aoe2 has reached, not crying because there are rules and they can't do what they want. This is basically the difference between a game and an esport.
The rules were broken by the set before as well.
Anyways. My point is there is nothing wrong with what Hera said. He definetely didnt have any rushed conclusions because Chrazinis post doesnt challenge any facts that Hera mentioned in his tweet. And he gets his point across pretty clearly by saying it was a "terrible decision" by Chrazini.
Now Chrazini replies with saying
He is not saying Heras name. He is not saying what is wrong with what anyone said. He is being as vague as possible. And nobody really knows what he thinks other than he doesnt like something that someone said.
Then to the decision itself:
He says there are many reasons and that he knows those reasons. OK cool. Doesnt clear up the situation either.
We know that there were more than 3 hours time. Chrazinis only explained reason is that thats not enough time.
Even if there were massive delays he could have given F1re the admin win one hour before the next round starts and they would have still had by far enough time to play before that.
What I get from this:
Hera thinks the AW was a terrible decision. (fair)
Hera thinks there was enough time. (fair)
Chrazini is "disapointed" with ... something Hera said and that it was a distasteful manner. (?)
Chrazini says there wasnt enough time. (fair)
Some people wrote mean messages. (?)
Robo says Hera would stirr up twitch chat and cry on social media. (wtf)
Memb likes Chrazini (ok cool)
Roxy likes Hera (ok cool)
I like Mbl (ok cool)
Nobody is smarter. Everyone is angry.
And I am completely lost wondering how people can type so many words without actually saying anything.
Feel like we should just let Chrazini respond to Belgium.
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