Mod to always show units HP

[Jineapple]

The way i see extracting data and presenting that to a viewer is that it gives a significant advantage. The idle villager pointer is already getting borderline.

This is a good point regarding the presenting of data. Unlike MQ/SQ it's not just simplifying an action but also doing it automatically for you. It's part of player skill and experience (beyond mechanics) just to think of checking HP (a lot easier said then done in a hectic and stressful game). This mod reminds you of that option.

The idle villager pointer is probably the closest comparison. Theoretically, you can see the idle vills without it, in practice it's very difficult to tell idle vills from working ones when you're not actively looking at them. The mod with its very noticeable exclamation mark doesn't just help you finding idles when you're looking for them, it also reminds you that you need to be looking for them. The only big difference is that it's available as a purely visual mod and thus hard to regulate.

 

[buhanisson]

This is clearly wrong and should be removed from this site immediately. I cant believe so many ppl are actually saying stuff like "good effort" etc.

On the other hand, it is obviously possible for anyone to do things like this for their own game without the enemy knowing, so I would probably lean towards voting this to be included in some future patch for everyone to use. (unless its possible to somehow reliably block this kind of mods from being used)

 

[patao]

This is clearly wrong and should be removed from this site immediately. I cant believe so many ppl are actually saying stuff like "good effort" etc.

It's clearly wrong to use, but was also kind of a clever thought that took some work, it doesn't sound like OP had malicious intent. It's just people being polite in their rejection of it, not encouraging further use of it.

On the other hand, it is obviously possible for anyone to do things like this for their own game without the enemy knowing, so I would probably lean towards voting this to be included in some future patch for everyone to use. (unless its possible to somehow reliably block this kind of mods from being used)

Unfortunately all sorts of visual cheats are possible w/o enemy knowing, this is why stuff like CaptureAge isn't made publicly available. (I'm not sure how much anti-cheat can do about them - hopefully something but I doubt it's perfect.)

 

[Jineapple]

On the other hand, it is obviously possible for anyone to do things like this for their own game without the enemy knowing, so I would probably lean towards voting this to be included in some future patch for everyone to use. (unless its possible to somehow reliably block this kind of mods from being used)

Unfortunately all sorts of visual cheats are possible w/o enemy knowing, this is why stuff like CaptureAge isn't made publicly available. (I'm not sure how much anti-cheat can do about them - hopefully something but I doubt it's perfect.)

It's correct that visual mods can't be checked like that. However in this case a theoretical solution would be to compare dat file hashes before a game to make sure they are identical. It's not clear if that's possible in the short term though - Voobly dev work has been mostly paused for a long time, UP 1.5 is essentially finished.

 

[patao]

Yep, this method is super easy (relatively) to check for and probably should be at some point. I just think the "it's possible, so we should vote to include it to even the playing field" line of thinking doesn't really go very far, given that other possible things are undeniably game-breaking.

 

[Tedious_Tarkan]

plz del

 

[kalkkaro]

Now when this mod is already dumbed here without any discussion with community or top players beforehand and we have no control over whether someone is gonna use it or not we just must admit that this is a new part of game. You simply can't play without this in competitive AoE2 because advantages are so obvious. Even if you remove it now, that would just create unfair disadvantage for players who didn't get acces to this.

The part where you need to edit data files to make this mod working is a line we should never cross. But what have been done is done.

 

[Dico200]

It should be possible to detect and block on Voobly.

 

[robo]

It should be possible to detect and block on Voobly.

Of course, the problem is voobly actually implementing anything.
Group watching recorded games has been broken for 10+ months now and still no fix even though it should take less than 5 minutes.

When the only developer is afk new features are hard to come by.

 

[HyunaOP]

Of course, the problem is voobly actually implementing anything.
Group watching recorded games has been broken for 10+ months now and still no fix even though it should take less than 5 minutes.

When the only developer is afk new features are hard to come by.

It's actually painful to wait for a group watching recorded games fix. Used to be super helpful when high level friends trained me. I miss those times.

 

[ombe]

This is a nice work, i think this request option should be put on the table for the next wololokingdoms update patch.
I heard people complaining about the scout snipe and i understand that point, it will be interesting to have a healt bar only on "our" units and building!
On this aoe2 could learn a bit of starcraft, and that will change "a bit" the gameplay.
I ame keen to see this appear in the futur!!

 

[Memeluke]

This mod would be cancer to play against

 

[ombe]

This mod would be cancer to play against

Not at all, you have just to admit that you re against moving forward. If listening people with this type of dialogue, aoe2 will still be playing SQ, with mini map in the bottom right corner on 800x600 and won't have a hd edition or definitive one coming.
You, regressive person by trying to preserve games in the exact same way as they used to be created actualy condemned them.

 

[Flow]

Yes, change for the sake of change is obviously the best one.
Can't wait for automated unit production and constanct ressource trickle so we can finally play the game in its best form - CBA - and get rid of all the other annoying stuff.

 

[Memeluke]

I don't want to deal with suicide starting scouts hunting for my weak vills in TG when I'm microing units forward against my opponent. I guess I'll start healing my boar vills in the tc if this becomes popular

 

[Dasso]

I don't want to deal with suicide starting scouts hunting for my weak vills in TG when I'm microing units forward against my opponent. I guess I'll start healing my boar vills in the tc if this becomes popular

Herbal Medicine rush

 

[Fall]

The OP part about this isn't even injured vill hunting, it's showing the HP of enemy units during the fight.

Targeting weaker units first is a big part of micro, and remembering which unit you already injured or clicking on the units to see which is weakest whilst keeping up with your micro and macro is a speed intensive task.

This mod is a huge advantage and is just lowering the skill cap. This is not a a 'quality of life' update like SQ/MQ, but is just lowering the standard for everyone.

 

[ombe]

The OP part about this isn't even injured vill hunting, it's showing the HP of enemy units during the fight.

Targeting weaker units first is a big part of micro, and remembering which unit you already injured or clicking on the units to see which is weakest whilst keeping up with your micro and macro is a speed intensive task.

This mod is a huge advantage and is just lowering the skill cap. This is not a a 'quality of life' update like SQ/MQ, but is just lowering the standard for everyone.

I understand that this mod isn't perfect, i would rather like to have only my units and building hp bar beeing visible (not my enemis one, i do like the mecanics of looking for the low villagers in my enemis camp)

 

[diseased]

it's an interesting idea and definitely a sweet hack in terms of implementation, but you can't call it a simple visual mod as it gives a real and substantial information advantage to whoever is using it and really makes a pretty big change to core gameplay.

unit health is part of aoe2's structure of player-restricted incomplete information (the stuff that puts the S in RTS), along with things like line of sight, resource count, units and researches queued, unit types garrisoned in buildings etc., and i always felt with good reason, in that it forces you to use your powers of attention and judgement to gauge how strong your enemy's units really are rather than using a simple visual overview. to have someone potentially be able to play a rated game and see all that information from their enemy on a platter, when the other player can't, really feels like perving in their proverbial underwear drawer, and basically borderline hax in terms of advantage.

of course if both players are running the mod it's fair, and i think the best way to do that would just be to release it strictly as a data mod so players can only start a game when everyone has it installed.

 

[Dico200]

I understand that this mod isn't perfect, i would rather like to have only my units and building hp bar beeing visible (not my enemis one, i do like the mecanics of looking for the low villagers in my enemis camp)

You can already see your own units hp much more easily by just selecting multiple of them.
This mod is intended to show enemy units hp, and I absolutely agree with @Fall

Part of why Age of Empires II is great is the skill cap. This mod just lowers the skill cap, not to mention it's a pretty ugly way of showing units hp IMO.

If such a mod is to be accepted, it should not be a simple visual mod, it should be a gameplay mod, the major difference being that everyone in the lobby uses it or noone in the lobby uses it.

 

[ombe]

You can already see your own units hp much more easily by just selecting multiple of them.
This mod is intended to show enemy units hp, and I absolutely agree with @Fall

Part of why Age of Empires II is great is the skill cap. This mod just lowers the skill cap, not to mention it's a pretty ugly way of showing units hp IMO.

If such a mod is to be accepted, it should not be a simple visual mod, it should be a gameplay mod, the major difference being that everyone in the lobby uses it or noone in the lobby uses it.

Yeah but like you said you have to select the units to be able to see their hp.In starcraft for exemple the health bar are always showed and i quiet like it.
I think it shouldn't be a mod but add to a futur update for wololokingdoms, or at least give it a try.
That said grid and pussywood are mods and i think they give a big avantage to the one who got it.

 

[Dico200]

Yeah but like you said you have to select the units to be able to see their hp.In starcraft for exemple the health bar are always showed and i quiet like it.
I think it shouldn't be a mod but add to a futur update for wololokingdoms, or at least give it a try.
That said grid and pussywood are mods and i think they give a big avantage to the one who got it.

Grid and pussywood do not compare to this mod in terms of the advantage they give at all. @Fall eloquently described the advantages this mod gives. Grid and pussywood are barely an advantage. Grid doesn't really help with holes or anything imo.

I get that you like it when there's more information, but it lowers the difficulty of the game, and like I mentioned, its difficulty is a big part of why we like it I think. Some of the game's behavior isn't necessarily rational, like the fact that units can't walk through foundations as soon as a villager touches them. Microing is a big part of the game, and making it significantly easier with the information advantage provided by your mod is something I oppose.

That's not to take away from your effort, you made a cool mod, but there's a problem because the community can't control who does and doesn't use it, and it isn't detected either. Age of Empires II is vulnerable like this, if certain knowledge or mods become public, they can ruin the game, because they enable cheating. (Significant) unfair advantages amount to cheating. As far as I'm concerned, there isn't a board of community members that cover mod acceptance either. This is a major reason why CaptureAge is NOT open source, because the game could be ruined if it became open source.

 

[Dasso]

of course if both players are running the mod it's fair, and i think the best way to do that would just be to release it strictly as a data mod so players can only start a game when everyone has it installed.

Being a data mod means that or it will be accepted into WololoKingdoms or this discussion will die right there. Looking at all the negative feedbacks (for obvious and right reasons, excluding these sc2 fanboys) i'm just wondering how this thread is still alive.

 

[TriRem]

As much as I agree with the idea that this mod should not be used in competitive play, there is a fair amount of gatekeeping in this thread. This mod is both very ingenuous and useful, and I can appreciate that as a modder myself. People should be able to play the game the way they want, and if they want autoqueue, and other massive QoL improvements I don't see why some would prevent them from doing that.

That being said, as much as people should enjoy the game they want for casual play, there is also the need for a competitive standard, where the game is played the way it was meant to. In that sense, I don't think this mod should be allowed in competitive play.

But it could be a great help for casting for example, while we wait for a proper release of CaptureAge. But not for playing, at least not in my opinion.