MoA3 LB R6 Pike vs Vodka Pt. 2

[tia]

I still think this is bullshit that someone who is passivly receiving "help" in terms of singular messages is bound to any sort of punishment. If this is how we are looking at it, all cases where players actually stream their tournament games which occurs not so rarely should be reviewed as clearly stream chat allowance is basicly the same violation, even if any advice given there is by 14xx players without a single useful idea.

Streaming your tournament games is different because the stream viewers can't see anything more than the player and as you pointed out their advice is pretty much useless. Spectators on the other hand can see the entire map without the fog of war which means they could tell the players where the best spot to fish is, what build order the other guy is doing, etc.

Are you like serious? So now we are sorting help on the less useful and more useful. So stupid. I like examples so let me put on forward. 1700 plays vs 1800. The 1700 has viper on stream giving him advice concerning what strategy he should go, whether he has idle eco, telling him all the things he misses to spot like holes in walls, idle army somewhere. So by your definition that is all good and fine, yes? But saying by a random person who specs that your enemy has no more castles left in FI war when any brainlaging ***** can deduce it after treb war, that is not fine? You people seriously lack logic.

 

[Shmolagin]

I still think this is bullshit that someone who is passivly receiving "help" in terms of singular messages is bound to any sort of punishment. If this is how we are looking at it, all cases where players actually stream their tournament games which occurs not so rarely should be reviewed as clearly stream chat allowance is basicly the same violation, even if any advice given there is by 14xx players without a single useful idea.

Streaming your tournament games is different because the stream viewers can't see anything more than the player and as you pointed out their advice is pretty much useless. Spectators on the other hand can see the entire map without the fog of war which means they could tell the players where the best spot to fish is, what build order the other guy is doing, etc.

Are you like serious? So now we are sorting help on the less useful and more useful. So stupid. I like examples so let me put on forward. 1700 plays vs 1800. The 1700 has viper on stream giving him advice concerning what strategy he should go, whether he has idle eco, telling him all the things he misses to spot like holes in walls, idle army somewhere. So by your definition that is all good and fine, yes? But saying by a random person who specs that your enemy has no more castles left in FI war when any brainlaging ***** can deduce it after treb war, that is not fine? You people seriously lack logic.

I never said whether I feel that either is fine, I just pointed out the difference between two scenarios.

 

[Influenza]

I still think this is bullshit that someone who is passivly receiving "help" in terms of singular messages is bound to any sort of punishment. If this is how we are looking at it, all cases where players actually stream their tournament games which occurs not so rarely should be reviewed as clearly stream chat allowance is basicly the same violation, even if any advice given there is by 14xx players without a single useful idea.

Streaming your tournament games is different because the stream viewers can't see anything more than the player and as you pointed out their advice is pretty much useless. Spectators on the other hand can see the entire map without the fog of war which means they could tell the players where the best spot to fish is, what build order the other guy is doing, etc.

Are you like serious? So now we are sorting help on the less useful and more useful. So stupid. I like examples so let me put on forward. 1700 plays vs 1800. The 1700 has viper on stream giving him advice concerning what strategy he should go, whether he has idle eco, telling him all the things he misses to spot like holes in walls, idle army somewhere. So by your definition that is all good and fine, yes? But saying by a random person who specs that your enemy has no more castles left in FI war when any brainlaging ***** can deduce it after treb war, that is not fine? You people seriously lack logic.

logic overload:
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=109057

 

[tia]

Sure, let's now totally roll this topic and make this about me and what I wrote in the past. **** off.

 

[teutonic_tanks]

Sure, let's now totally roll this topic and make this about me and what I wrote in the past. **** off.

isn't that you barless?

font: viewtopic.php?f=1174&t=118547

 

[RoR_BzH]

:lol:

 

[OneMillion]

Wait, so because they suck at cheating, and were caught we shouldn't punish them?

Vodka may not have asked for darkdevil to spec cheat, but he had many options to stop it and didn't. And darkdevil is downright in the wrong here and I can't see any way to explain that as anything but cheating.

No, because if they wanted to cheat, exchanging snippets of information Vodka could have reasonably guessed anyway would be completely pointless, especially on Voobly messenger, which was visible in the end. Why would you even bother? It was so half-arsed that it strikes me as flat out careless more than malicious.

Of course, they still broke the rules, but breaking the rules is not the same as cheating, as cheating requires intent and subversion. The admin decision was a sensible one, as it rescinded the win without removing the ability of both players to finish the games according to the rules, though I probably would have insisted on replaying the entire set!

 

[Influenza]

Sure, let's now totally roll this topic and make this about me and what I wrote in the past. **** off.

I'm just letting people know that you shouldn't be taken seriously... and considering what you messaged to pike during the games, I don't think anyone does...

 

[tia]

Sure, let's now totally roll this topic and make this about me and what I wrote in the past. **** off.

I'm just letting people know that you shouldn't be taken seriously... and considering what you messaged to pike during the games, I don't think anyone does...

Honestly you are no better than philipe le bon with your worthless stupid comments and if anyone shouldn't be treated serious, it's your damn self. What i wrote to pike is just a proof that those suggestions that this is cheating is a joke and according to what you people think, pike should be punished based on that.

 

[Influenza]

Sure, let's now totally roll this topic and make this about me and what I wrote in the past. **** off.

I'm just letting people know that you shouldn't be taken seriously... and considering what you messaged to pike during the games, I don't think anyone does...

Honestly you are no better than philipe le bon with your worthless stupid comments and if anyone shouldn't be treated serious, it's your damn self. What i wrote to pike is just a proof that those suggestions that this is cheating is a joke and according to what you people think, pike should be punished based on that.

It's really funny that you are actually equating what you uninvitedly sent to pike to a long series of comments/discussions about strategy, maps, etc, between one player who was playing in a tournament and a second who had knowledge of the whole map.
Here's some examples of the convo:
"He's going anarchy without going imp"
"Keep making champs cuz he's out of gold"
"Take the gold in the middle"
And I'm sure it was being read, at one point in a game vodka even paused to respond
I don't think the it was their intention to cheat, but Vodka was given a small advantage as a result of the info being sent, and therefore action was justifiably taken.

Maybe your excuse is that you are their friend, and therefore you are biased. Or maybe you just don't think cheating is a big deal. Considering what team you played for in the SY invitational, I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case

 

[Miral]

Damn we got a big polish kid

 

[_balcanman]

Split: Bugged maps and DND in tournament games

to avoid such discussions in the future: during tournament games "do not disturb" mode is responsibility

 

[sw_]

to avoid such discussions in the future: during tournament games "do not disturb" mode is responsibility

+1

 

[MembTV]

to avoid such discussions in the future: during tournament games "do not disturb" mode is responsibility

+1

if u go do not disturb u can´t message players if there is a bugged map that they can not see because the scout can´t explore a black area with a stone/gold/sheep/deers bugged, only solution is that streamers can message even if the players are do not disturb, but that is something that only voobly admins can do.

 

[sw_]

FOPT_Membrillo
if u go do not disturb u can´t message players if there is a bugged map that they can not see because the scout can´t explore a black area with a stone/gold/sheep/deers bugged, only solution is that streamers can message even if the players are do not disturb, but that is something that only voobly admins can do.

maybe need more rights for official streamers

 

[paroofex]

Havent benn around for a while, seems like barles is still a depressed raging kiddo.

 

[swissboyy]

Bugged maps are responsibility of the player.

 

[SiFly]

Bugged maps are responsibility of the player.

+1

Now while on the subject, are streamers allowed to notify players with bugged maps? It is giving intel about the game, something which is forbidden and results in punishment if it isn't about bug maps. So should this still be allowed or purely be responsibility of the player?

 

Sure, let's now totally roll this topic and make this about me and what I wrote in the past. **** off.

I'm just letting people know that you shouldn't be taken seriously... and considering what you messaged to pike during the games, I don't think anyone does...

Honestly you are no better than philipe le bon with your worthless stupid comments and if anyone shouldn't be treated serious, it's your damn self. What i wrote to pike is just a proof that those suggestions that this is cheating is a joke and according to what you people think, pike should be punished based on that.

ROFL so much rage :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
gj influenza

 

[swissboyy]

Bugged maps are responsibility of the player.

+1
Now while on the subject, are streamers allowed to notify players with bugged maps? It is giving intel about the game, something which is forbidden and results in punishment if it isn't about bug maps. So should this still be allowed or purely be responsibility of the player?

I can only talk for my events, but I much prefer the streamer staying out of the whole thing.

 

[Rein]

Why would it be the players responsibility to notice a bugged map? This is pretty unfair imo. The player can't do anything about it and still gets punished if he does not pay attention to it. Letting streamers (assuming they do know the rules about bugged maps, etc.) get in the circle of this, they can notify the players about this and avoid unfair match-ups due to bugged maps.

 

[_Ra_]

I understand swissboy decision

At the same time I'm surprised pike didn't give vodka an aw because the chat changed nothing. On top of that how many times did nabs receive info from specs. Either from each other on teamspeak or from twitch chat giving advice to the streamer.

Just seems a little odd to me, especially considering Nadya's harsh response.

Anyway hopefully vodka is more careful in the future

 

[swissboyy]

@ Rein
What if there is no streamer around? What if the streamer isn't paying attention? What if the streamer is wrong?
The players have 8 minutes to scout their map. That's more than enough to look for your starting resources and see if something is missing.

 

[Rein]

@ Rein
What if there is no streamer around? What if the streamer isn't paying attention? What if the streamer is wrong?
The players have 8 minutes to scout their map. That's more than enough to look for your starting resources and see if something is missing.

If there is no streamer, there is no other option the that the players notice it themself.
The streamers should be informed about the rules of the tournament (if they are not just casual streaming once, then they should not be able to call it.)
I think that most (common) streamers are well known with the rules regarding bugged maps, only these frequent streamers (Memb, Katsuni, T90, etc.) should be allowed to do this. What if an admin calls it and is wrong? This is comparable situation, isn't it?
If you stream and get this responsibility, you, as a stream, should pay attention to the map. But in general this is something that should be discussed with the 'streamteam' of ur event.

8 minutes should be enough, but you prefer to put ur attention into perfecting ur dark age, rather then looking out for a bugged map, I assume.

EDIT:
on topic for this match up, Swissboy did the right thing, the 'cheating' did not affect the match, still it is not allowed and Vodka should be punished. This punishment for letting them replay is a good mix between an admin action and not being to harsh because of the almost none existing influence.

 

[swissboyy]

What if an admin calls it and is wrong? This is comparable situation, isn't it? [...]
8 minutes should be enough, but you prefer to put ur attention into perfecting ur dark age, rather then looking out for a bugged map, I assume.

How is the situation comparable? The admin wrote the rules and decides if a map is bugged. The streamer is there to cast the games, not help the players or play referee.
Scouting your map is part of a perfect Dark Age. Players responsibility.