Masters of Arena 5 format poll

Feb 16, 2016
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#1
Hi!
Me and Kigo are making preparations for the 5th installmant of Masters of Arena. This classic tournament has beforehand always been played on aoc, but with wololokingdoms becoming very popular we wanted to make a poll for the community to decide on which dataset we should play this incoming tournament.

Go here to vote: http://www.strawpoll.me/13880509

Stay tuned for more news
 

BulgariaRorarimbo

Known Member
Jan 10, 2016
408
156
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Bulgaria
#2
I want to se Arena tournament at some point for sure. And I want it to be on Wololo. I have 2 remarks.

I think Masters of Arena should not be used esp if its WK tournament as the Arabia WK tournament by Memb & viewers is not called Masters of Arabia. I feel there is somth not right about it despite I prefer WK settings by far.

Also I think in the poll you should give a bit more information what is Wololo data set and even AoC. I think many ppl who will vote have no idea whats Wololo.
 

ChilewAkKo

Well-Known Member
Bronze Supporter
May 19, 2008
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#4
Time to install WK :P
 

UnknownstefanHD

Active Member
Aug 29, 2013
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#5
How is WololoKingdoms becoming very popular? I only know a very few players on Voobly that play it and even less are Arena players.
They already made the mistake last year to go for settings that almost no Arena player wanted to play and it ended up in Swissboyy cancelling the tournament. Just let the players vote and not the specs...
 
Feb 16, 2016
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#6
Jan 20, 2017
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#7
How is WololoKingdoms becoming very popular? I only know a very few players on Voobly that play it and even less are Arena players.
They already made the mistake last year to go for settings that almost no Arena player wanted to play and it ended up in Swissboyy cancelling the tournament. Just let the players vote and not the specs...
WK is becoming popular because it provides players a dependable platform upon which to play the expansion civs. It has not been played very much thus far because it has only just come out with the 1.5 betas, requires extra steps by the player to install and use, and it is regularly receiving updates.

The argument that "MOA4 with Castle Age start and hills failed, therefore MOA5 with Standard start but expansion civs will fail" is a pretty blatant flaw in logic.

If you want a tournament by the players, for the players, that's fine, but the potential is huge right now for voobly to experience a huge growth in popularity with the WK and 1.5 patches, given HD's instability, and tournaments like this are a great way to showcase that ability.
 

Franceedie

Champion
Monk
May 9, 2013
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#8
The difference is arabia map is popular that if you put thausends money on a arabia tournament, you could put wololokindom or balance patch or what ever patch or stuff, people would still sign up. I really don't think its the same in arena.

Just for you to know, even if it was AOC there is already somes experts who would just sign up if its with somes setting, like no mirror, or no pick etc. So now bringing this question of wololo / or aoc will just divid the signs up even more than it could already be possibibly if it was only aoc. I could have helped you to make good settings for this tournament because I know what the arena players and non arena players top expert would want to sign on it.

I would be really upset if the sign up were poor.

As a arena player, losing an arena tournament because I dont know the civ or because its something new to anyone, I also wouldnt be happy. So if you make this tournament on wololo don't call it master of arena X, just do an arena tournament on wololo, but who has nothing to do with the moarena series.

I am curious to know whats the opinoin on it of experts (not arena players), because if it attract only arena player I would probably not play it, to play the arena guys i can just do it on rated game so no real interrest.

I would still prefer by far it was on aoc 1.5 than wololo, because on aoc it would really show who is the best on the map, and not "who practiced and lerned the new civ the new meta" which could be anyone.
 
Feb 16, 2016
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#9

AustraliaSocksyy

Well Known Pikeman
Nov 6, 2013
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#10
I would say given it is under masters of arena logo, title, whatever then I think should be aoc dataset. If wololo mod is wanted then perhaps make a different tournament name.

Also HYPE!, would love to see a strong tourney of arena :D
 

UnknownCarlini8

Halberdier
Oct 22, 2016
254
596
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United Kingdom
#11
In reality this depends where you want the game to go.

If you don't care, if you are happy for AoE2 to stay at the level it is now, pander to the top players and make it AoC.

If you want the game to grow and even potentially one day hit eSports level (This is fully in Microsofts hands IMO with Age 4) then move it to WK. All top games have balances changes, almost all the time.

The players, in reality are one of the least important people in all of this.

If you are option one above, then the players are the second least important people involved. If you are option two and want the game to grow, they are actually the least important. Viewer numbers will be more important, making viewers 2nd least important. Admins are the ones who make the tournaments happen, admins are hard to find, players are easy to find, sure, they won't be as high a level if the top players cry about having to learn some more civs, but players can be found. With viewers you get sponsorship, with players you do not.

Now there is an exception here, players that are streamers, we shall call them streamers. They have followings and can be an influence themselves, they can bring in enough figures for sponsorship. For our game there are only a handful sadly.

Player Streamers, Casting Streamers, Admins, Legwork Admins, Sponsors and then maybe or maybe not viewers depending on if you want the game to grow. This is a list of the people more important than the players.

Decide who you want to cater to and what makes the tournament a success.

If no one watched football or bought football merch, would the World Cup be a big deal? On the flipside If all the players didn't sign up for the world cup because they had to wear different boots and they didn't want to learn how to use them, would the tournament be cancelled or would new players be found? Sure it wouldn't be as much of an occasion, but it would still happen and people would still go.

We have to start thinking bigger as a community to see our game succeed and help Microsfot, not cry and ask people not to call an Arabia Tournament "Master of Arabia" because a few players don't wanna learn something new.
 

UnknownCarlini8

Halberdier
Oct 22, 2016
254
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United Kingdom
#12
Also if anyone who would want to play in this (and would actually get in) but doesn't have the needed content on stream, just send me a message and I will buy it for you as long as you are actually going to play.
 

Franceedie

Champion
Monk
May 9, 2013
4,583
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#13
The viewers and the "community" are very important for a tournament because the community is mostly viewers and not players, but if on the tournament there is no good player, gl getting all the viewers, not sure a lot people would watch a tournament if the player on it doesnt interrest them.

I am nowhere against making arena tournament on wololo, and I dont see whats the problem of calling it something else than Master of Arena 5, it could give the tournament even more prestige to have its own name, just you dont call the conitnuity of something if its not the same tournament ?


Its just normal to have this dicussion/debat before launch a tournament.

- on what settong/format the viewers are interrested for ? (what would they prefer to watch)
- on what setting /format the sponsors ( if there is ?) are interrested to donate for
- on what setting/ format the players interrest to play it ?

I think thats the 3 questions which really matter
 

UnknownCarlini8

Halberdier
Oct 22, 2016
254
596
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United Kingdom
#14
I believe you are more likely to get "non-arena" players signing up if this is on WK.

Wouldn't you prefer to see how you perform against Viper, DauT, Jordan, Tatoh on Arena rather than just play AoC against players you would randomly for rated anyway? Well I know you do! You said it above!

They are more likely to sign up on WK, they have said multiple times on stream how much they prefer the new civs, they play in Escape etc.
 

Norwaybuddy__1

Known Member
Jul 30, 2016
210
167
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#15
I am curious to know whats the opinoin on it of experts (not arena players), because if it attract only arena player I would probably not play it, to play the arena guys i can just do it on rated game so no real interrest.

I would still prefer by far it was on aoc 1.5 than wololo, because on aoc it would really show who is the best on the map, and not "who practiced and lerned the new civ the new meta" which could be anyone.
I think if you want to cater to top players joining in, like jordan, viper, tatoh, daut, maybe even riut etc, who are not "arena players", but is legitimate top players of this game, I believe it would be far more interesting for them to join an arena tournament with the expansions civs. A lot of the arena play right now is following a set meta, and performing strats with great precision.

So the arena players playing normal aoc right now are the ones "who practised and learned the civs and the meta".

but with the expansions it opens up the playing field so much more, so a player like viper or daut who is not really arena players can come in and try to win with pure skill, adaptability and decision-making.

The viewers wants whats more entertaining, the players wants a nice pricepool and a lot of hype. It all goes hand in hand to make up for what makes this tournament either an amazing tournament which everyone is watching and everyone is fighting to win, or a tournament with the die-hard arena players who's trying to beat the other die-hard arena players.

If you win this master of arena with the aoc dataset, you won't be the master of arena. You'll be the master of the old arena.
 

Franceedie

Champion
Monk
May 9, 2013
4,583
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#16
I believe you are more likely to get "non-arena" players signing up if this is on WK.

Wouldn't you prefer to see how you perform against Viper, DauT, Jordan, Tatoh on Arena rather than just play AoC against players you would randomly for rated anyway? Well I know you do! You said it above!

They are more likely to sign up on WK, they have said multiple times on stream how much they prefer the new civs, they play in Escape etc.
Yes exactly :smile: we just hope to have great tournament for anyone
 

GermanyAkeNo

Active Member
Sep 18, 2016
320
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#17
because on aoc it would really show who is the best on the map, and not "who practiced and lerned the new civ the new meta" which could be anyone.
I don't know about that. I mean it's the same map still and if you want to win you have to practice. I would argue if it is the regular AoC then everyone already knows what each civ can do and the top arena players know everything already. I would even argue it would make most match ups really boring especially if it includes random vs and switch settings you know the better civ will 90% of the time win regardless of knowledge between arena only player or arabia expert for example (my opinion).
For civ example, imagine persians vs aztecs then switch, I mean. Might as well not play.
In the wololokingdoms mod there are a lot more civs and more old civs were made more viable with minor balance changes that don't make it an entirely different game like some people like to claim. I mean if you're a 2k player and you beat a 2.2k player because you practiced and put in the hours you deserve it very much from my standpoint than just for example regular aoc where edie would best dracont every time despite dracont practicing a lot - simply because there is nothing new to know and edie just being at a whole different level. Now you could argue that's "skill" but if you already know the outcome then I question why someone would even want to host a tournament (again personal view).

Lastly, I think it is just much more FUN on wololokingdoms arena, which every tournament game or whatever else should be priority.
 

Franceedie

Champion
Monk
May 9, 2013
4,583
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#18
As long as anyone is interrested it's good and will bring a lot of fun and good tournament thats mostly what I was worried about, even if for now I enjoy more playing in the 1.5 aoc version, maybe with playing more often on wolokindong and tournaments on this format, this might change tho.
 

Franceedie

Champion
Monk
May 9, 2013
4,583
1,658
128
#19
What would also help to make wololokindom more played is to have it rated on voobly
 

NetherlandsKigo

VCOM Tournament Host
Jul 22, 2016
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#22
It is entirely possible that the tournament will be hosted under a different name when the time is there. However, this is the least of our concerns. Much more important is figuring out wether the community (and the participants) would prefer an AoC or a WK tournament.
 

Unknownasdfasdfasdf1

Active Member
Jul 13, 2017
111
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#25
I have changed my stance, as I would like to enter I need there to be less than 64 sign ups, so let's get this on AoC.
you do realize that people would need all 3 DLCs in order to sign up for a WololoKingdoms arena tournament? It's certainly more likely to get more players if this is an AoC tournament.

I voted for WololoKingdoms tournament myself as I'm interested in the new civs, but please don't pretend that everybody loves them and made AoC obsolete.
 

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