let me ban the maps I don't want to play

[Viex]

It's simple. Do it developers. EVERYONE WANTS IT. If you want variety don't ban. If you want one map BAN. EVERYONE WINS. Why is this so hard?????

 

[Viex]

It's simple. Do it developers. EVERYONE WANTS IT. If you want variety don't ban. If you want one map BAN. EVERYONE WINS. Why is this so hard?????

Maybe what we need is a concerted, persistant LOUD campaign for this at all levels. From general players to pros to casters. Perhaps with enough pressure over time we might get somewhere. Apart from anything this would require NO DEVELOPMENT WORK OR BUDGET and would be a MASSIVE PR win for Microsoft. And it simply MUST happen.

 

[T-West]

I don't think spamming Cysion's inbox will do anything to improve the ranked system.

 

[KolyaKrasotkin]

No, not everybody wins.

First of all, queue times will be longer for everybody. If you want to play a specific map, you are probably fine with that; but if you don't mind the map and just want to get a game fast, then, well, you loose.
And I doubt that the player base will increase significantly to overcome this effect.

The second thing is the rating: With unlimited bans you effectively decouple the ratings on different maps. Meaning, if a variety player plays against an arabia-only or arena-only player on their respective maps, the variety player basically has a 100 ELO disadvantage.

But all of that has been written here a thousand times already ...

 

[Lokalo]

No, not everybody wins.

First of all, queue times will be longer for everybody. If you want to play a specific map, you are probably fine with that; but if you don't mind the map and just want to get a game fast, then, well, you loose.
And I doubt that the player base will increase significantly to overcome this effect.

The second thing is the rating: With unlimited bans you effectively decouple the ratings on different maps. Meaning, if a variety player plays against an arabia-only or arena-only player on their respective maps, the variety player basically has a 100 ELO disadvantage.

But all of that has been written here a thousand times already ...

Yeah, that was written thousand times and it's still not entirely truth though. Many people just dodging or surrendering in minute 5 the maps they don't want to play, so in the end often you just waste even more time than you would in queue. Also elo discrepency between arena and arabia players already exist, so that's irrelevant too

 

[KolyaKrasotkin]

Yeah, that was written thousand times and it's still not entirely truth though. Many people just dodging or surrendering in minute 5 the maps they don't want to play, so in the end often you just waste even more time than you would in queue.

Well, dodging still is a violation of the "rules" of the matchmaking system (justified or not), to "locally" enforce a system with unlimited bans. So, it should per se be the exception (and in my limited personal perception, it is). If unlimited bans were the norm, naturally, players would become a lot pickier than they are now (when they have to trick the system to be picky at all), so queue times will definitely become longer, even considering the current dodging.

Also elo discrepency between arena and arabia players already exist, so that's irrelevant too

I was not talking about ELO difference between arabia and arena players of the same general skill level (which always existed, and, indeed, is irrelevant), but about the performance difference between a variety player and a specialised player with the same ELO.
I, for example, don't want to play arabia against people, who seemingly have my rating, but spend all their games practising m@a into archers on that map (mostly against others who do the same), because I will most probably just loose in the early game.
And that doesn't mean, I generally prefer other maps over arabia, I just don't like, how arabia would probably be playing out, if it basically had its own queue.

 

[Lokalo]

I was not talking about ELO difference between arabia and arena players of the same general skill level (which always existed, and, indeed, is irrelevant), but about the performance difference between a variety player and a specialised player with the same ELO.
I, for example, don't want to play arabia against people, who seemingly have my rating, but spend all their games practising m@a into archers on that map (mostly against others who do the same), because I will most probably just loose in the early game.
And that doesn't mean, I generally prefer other maps over arabia, I just don't like, how arabia would probably be playing out, if it basically had its own queue.

Not sure if I understand you. So you are saying that you like arabia, but want to play it with more casual build, like starting bit more slowly or something like that and going more into later game stage? I mean, I think I kind of understand what you are saying, but at same time I don't understand how exactly it's related. I always ban water maps, because I don't even know build order for them and I'm pretty sure everyone else in 1750 who plays more and has unbanned Islands do. Or that I would probably enjoy playing arena more not against clown, but how you can assure or even know against who you play. I mean in theory you might face more people who are specialised in that specific map if you can ban more maps. But at same time, whoever is not banning arabia currently, they know how to play arabia and for most part you are being matched with purely arabia players anyway. Or I'm missing something here?

 

[robo]

Apart from anything this would require NO DEVELOPMENT WORK OR BUDGET

How do you figure that? The matchmaking system is just going to completely change itself on its own?

Bert Beekman would be as good a place to start the lobbying I think. He has this email publically listed on his public website so that seems an invitation to anyone who wants to contact him: [redacted]

Ahh yes, the time-honored tradition of personally harassing every person remotely related to a games development even if they have absolutely nothing to do with the matchmaking service, I'm sure that will result in a positive outcome...

 

[Mouttie]

Apart from anything this would require NO DEVELOPMENT WORK OR BUDGET and would be a MASSIVE PR win for Microsoft.

As a dev, im offended.

 

[Halleju]

Yeah, that was written thousand times and it's still not entirely truth though. Many people just dodging or surrendering in minute 5 the maps they don't want to play, so in the end often you just waste even more time than you would in queue.

Yes, because those people exploit the system. There is a solution for it. Just increase the punishment with every new offense, like Valve does. 30 min -> 2 hours -> 1 day -> 7 days. And the dodging and early surrendering will stop immediatly.

Bert Beekman would be as good a place to start the lobbying I think. He has this email publically listed on his public website so that seems an invitation to anyone who wants to contact him: [redacted]

public calling for harassment should be a bannable offense in a forum. But that's only my opinion ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ .

 

[Lokalo]

Yes, because those people exploit the system. There is a solution for it. Just increase the punishment with every new offense, like Valve does. 30 min -> 2 hours -> 1 day -> 7 days. And the dodging and early surrendering will stop immediatly.

People already have few accounts because of it, do that and there will be even more smurf accounts(at least at first), so your solution is quite trash. People exploit the system, cuz system sucks. There are many people like me who plays 3 games per week in ladder and definetily won't play trash map that they don;t know BO. And there are more dumb stuff which should be fixed before even concidering such nonsense. Like having 3 arena maps in same map pool definetily doesn't make this system better. And if you think is better to ban people basically permanently for wanting to play only arabia for example, then something is wrong with you.

Also at best what would happen is people would just surrender in minute 5, some might be happy because of free elo, but I don't think that makes a favor for anyone in long term.

 

[HongeyKong]

People simply dont know how programming works 11
Lately I saw someone proposing some changes to matchmaking with "civ-specific ratings" / "pre-made queue ratings" and belived adding few extra colums is the only thing needed to be done 11

 

[rmcoo]

Now I see why your previous post was you trying to find the saltiest streamers. You are looking for your kind!

 

[LowEloNobody]

No

 

[Zbyszek]

Just consider the amount of time and hard work that went into changing the calculation formula for TG elo 11

 

[SouFire]

I used to blame cysion for everything ever since in 2012 he decided to remove 1 range to the plum archer after +200 balance suggestions by the community including big names on the early days of the forgotten empires mod. But now the one to blame for the current match making system is Adam is green as he is the head of all aoe franchise and all the other aoe games have the same trash system, with the exception of aoe1 cause there is only <50 active players.

Some guys around this forums are very naive the system can be exploited by banning the open maps in case you are a clown, so they can assure their clown specific maps most of the times, there is no coincidence that whenever i get arena i have to face a clown player with 3 farms+market abuse+monks+fi+castle fwd and trebs or bcc, i mean those are specialist players that i have to play with just because they banned arabia. Clowns are not the only guys farming points abusing the system, there lot of players forcing migration or water maps on players that did not want to play arena, nomad or bf.

The elo system is not to show it to ur grand mother and feel proud about it or any king of skill label, it's original design is to match players on the same level, by allowing the players to play the maps they really want to play, guess what... they are going to play vs players around their levels and that's it, stop caring about elo as it is meaningless on the high levels, look at barles, he has been top 1 since 3 months or more but he hasn't qualified on any big event so the elo reflects nothing but activity and no one complains other than those players who like to farm points from other players cause they don't want to change.

Anyway the maps and system exploiters are one thing, but the main problem with the match making relays on the waiting preference, thousands of hundreds of unfair matches every single days cause the devs in their infinite wisdom thought that what the players really wanted was to find a game within 8 mins no matter how unfair or boring it could be, if we don't bury that mentality that waiting for a good game is bad and quantity is better than quality nothing is really going to change.

 

[oozkan]

As a dev, im offended.

As a lead dev, you don't need to be offended if your code was modular.

 

[Pinch3Terneira]

How do you figure that? The matchmaking system is just going to completely change itself on its own?



Ahh yes, the time-honored tradition of personally harassing every person remotely related to a games development even if they have absolutely nothing to do with the matchmaking service, I'm sure that will result in a positive outcome...

I just remember when someone on this forum wrote "Cysion should be in jail" for same kind of reasons...

 

[Hearttt]

Lobby/matchmaking systems on DE are lacking far behind any other aspect of the game currently, even Voobly had a more engaging system in some ways. I doubt their approach of punishing players for dodging maps has had any positive effect on number of games, as people still dodge anyway and just eat up the ban time (myself included). If I get banned for an hour or a week for dodging an arena game it doesn't change anything for me, I'll just not play till I can try again to play something I'm willing to, and I imagine this being the case more often for people who play more casually than I do.
And that doesn't even address the fact that there can be a huge forced skill disparity when matching together two players that got their ELO from different maps. I don't want to play against an Arena player on Arabia, and they probably wouldn't want to match me, an arabia player, on Arena. It just wouldn't be an even game on either map.

 

[JayGould]

I used to blame cysion for everything ever since in 2012 he decided to remove 1 range to the plum archer after +200 balance suggestions by the community including big names on the early days of the forgotten empires mod. But now the one to blame for the current match making system is Adam is green as he is the head of all aoe franchise and all the other aoe games have the same trash system, with the exception of aoe1 cause there is only <50 active players.

Some guys around this forums are very naive the system can be exploited by banning the open maps in case you are a clown, so they can assure their clown specific maps most of the times, there is no coincidence that whenever i get arena i have to face a clown player with 3 farms+market abuse+monks+fi+castle fwd and trebs or bcc, i mean those are specialist players that i have to play with just because they banned arabia. Clowns are not the only guys farming points abusing the system, there lot of players forcing migration or water maps on players that did not want to play arena, nomad or bf.

The elo system is not to show it to ur grand mother and feel proud about it or any king of skill label, it's original design is to match players on the same level, by allowing the players to play the maps they really want to play, guess what... they are going to play vs players around their levels and that's it, stop caring about elo as it is meaningless on the high levels, look at barles, he has been top 1 since 3 months or more but he hasn't qualified on any big event so the elo reflects nothing but activity and no one complains other than those players who like to farm points from other players cause they don't want to change.

Anyway the maps and system exploiters are one thing, but the main problem with the match making relays on the waiting preference, thousands of hundreds of unfair matches every single days cause the devs in their infinite wisdom thought that what the players really wanted was to find a game within 8 mins no matter how unfair or boring it could be, if we don't bury that mentality that waiting for a good game is bad and quantity is better than quality nothing is really going to change.

But you are abusing the system just as much as Arena-players by picking Arabia. They beat you on "their" map while you beat them on "your" map. Why are you more righteous than them? Who ever decided that only Arabia counts?

 

[JayGould]

Some guys around this forums are very naive the system can be exploited by banning the open maps in case you are a clown, so they can assure their clown specific maps most of the times, there is no coincidence that whenever i get arena i have to face a clown player with 3 farms+market abuse+monks+fi+castle fwd and trebs or bcc, i mean those are specialist players that i have to play with just because they banned arabia. Clowns are not the only guys farming points abusing the system, there lot of players forcing migration or water maps on players that did not want to play arena, nomad or bf.

But you are abusing the system just as much as Arena-players by picking Arabia. They beat you on "their" map while you beat them on "your" map. Why are you more righteous than them? Who ever decided that only Arabia counts?

 

[SouFire]

But you are abusing the system just as much as Arena-players by picking Arabia. They beat you on "their" map while you beat them on "your" map. Why are you more righteous than them? Who ever decided that only Arabia counts?

I am not abusing the matchmaking as i am not manipulating the ban options to force my map, most open map players only ban the water option, the mixed map and one of the boom variants, clowns already know the preferences so all they need to do is ban the remaining open maps to force at least one of the walled or arena like maps and it happens all the time, there is not a secret with the map distribution and the strong player's preferences, there are even bigger clowns who ban arabia and arena to force the water or mixed option and farm points from the players on even more specialized maps.

I don't know why do you even need an authority to tell you what counts or what it doesn't, we play what we want and there is not a surprise that arabia is the most played map of all times in aoe2, name whatever map you want that isn't arabia and you will find out that it gets played 1/7 times that one arabia map is being played, now use the most basic logic, if most players want to play one map then that map must have something worth the time and preferences.

Don't get confused i like arena but i'd prefer to watch it than playing it, arena has a terrible balance update, market abusers that changes the economic aspect of the original design and monks abusers(yes loading the faith of multiple monks with one unit to convert faster others was never intended and it hasn't been fixed despite we have the best balance ever according to some smart guys, without even mentioning the randomness that can be as short as 4 seconds to convert and the guys using macros on monks).

 

[Halleju]

I doubt their approach of punishing players for dodging maps has had any positive effect on number of games, as people still dodge anyway and just eat up the ban time (myself included).

The primary goal of punishments is not to improve the number of games, but to make the matchmaking more enjoyable for those players, who follow the rules.

 

[Zbyszek]

A match making queue only works when there are always enough players on all skill levels looking for games at the same time.
For aoe 2 DE that is clearly not the case especially in team games where you need two, three or four times the amount of players.
So ye... I said it a year ago and ill say it again. aoe 2 DE does not have enough players to support a satisfying match making queue.

 

[AoeWololo]

So ye... I said it a year ago and ill say it again. aoe 2 DE does not have enough players to support a satisfying match making queue.

The problem has never been that there aren't enough players, the problem is that people who enjoy less popular maps expect similar queue times as you get for popular maps. (Or the devs who implemented the system decided that for them). The current system exists to drag popular map enjoyers into less popular maps. It's that simple and I'm tired of people misportraying reality and pretending like aoe2 is too small. I don't believe people actually believe this, rather they use this manipulative argument to get their way.

I used to blame cysion for everything ever since in 2012 he decided to remove 1 range to the plum archer after +200 balance suggestions by the community including big names on the early days of the forgotten empires mod. But now the one to blame for the current match making system is Adam is green as he is the head of all aoe franchise and all the other aoe games have the same trash system, with the exception of aoe1 cause there is only <50 active players.

I wouldn't be surprised if this clown Adam Isgreen was behind it. The same guy who proudly announced his "must have" accelerated right click drag scroll feature which got defaulted even though no one uses it. This tells you a lot about how removed this guy is from competitive rts.

Yes, because those people exploit the system. There is a solution for it. Just increase the punishment with every new offense, like Valve does. 30 min -> 2 hours -> 1 day -> 7 days. And the dodging and early surrendering will stop immediatly.

Sure let's drive away people who just want to play what they enjoy. Even if done democratically you can't just vote to take basic rights of others away. People like you are seriously lacking empathic capabillities and are a danger in positions of power.
Or you are one of those who says "Then use the lobby if you want to pick maps!" as if that could ever give an equal experience and isn't the same as one less player from a MM pov, which goes against the base premise of creating a better MM.