'Leaked' Balance Patch notes for new DLC.

[Sticky Ice Cream]

I see there is some discussion on this in other threads. Here is a dedicated topic for it:

- General -
Feudal Age Watch Tower has 850 HP (Up from 700.)
Elephant Archer costs 90F/70G (Down from 100/70), has 230 HP (Down from 280), and 0/2 armor (Down from 0/3.) Unknown if less HP and armor are also for Elite Elephant Archer.

- Civilizations -
Berbers
Genitour costs 40F/35W (Down from 50/35.)

Bohemians
Lose civ bonus for cheaper Monasteries.
Houfnice has 50 melee damage (Down from 55.)

Burmese
New Civ Bonus: Battle Elephants have +1/+1 armor.
Howdah gives +1/+1 armor (Down from +1/+2.)
Manipur Cavalry costs 400F/400G (Down from 650/400.)

Incas
New Team Bonus: Skirmishers and Spears +2 LOS (Replaces old Team Bonus?)

Indians
Imperial Camel Rider has 8 melee damage (Down from 9.)

Saracens
Zealotry is now a Castle Age technology.
New Imperial Age UT, Counterweights: Mangonels and Trebuchets +15% attack power (Replaces Madrasah.)

Sicilians
Hauberk costs 700F/600G (Up from 500/400.)

Slavs
New Castle Age UT, Detinets: Replaces 40% of Castles and Towers stone cost with wood for 400W/200G (Replaces Orthodoxy.)
Team Bonus buff: Castles also give +5 population space.

Vietnamese
New Paper Money effect: Lumberjacks slowly generate gold in addition to wood (Replaces old Paper Money effect.)

 

[IYIyTh]

Prefer they fix tower mechanics (can't shoot repair vil behind mangonel like you could in voobly,) but it's a start admitting that the great playstyle-banning-era might be over.

 

[Sticky Ice Cream]

...it's a start admitting that the great playstyle-banning-era might be over.

Could this reversal have something to do with pro-playstyle-banning players moving to different games not too long ago? I'll let you decide.

Spoiler

But the answer is yes .

 

[IYIyTh]

Also, Incas suffer yet again a laughable team bonus.

Last I checked play rate is the second lowest. Such a shame.

The Genitour reduction will be huge for Berbers. There were very few instances Genitor was viable over alternatives like Hussar.

Also, Slavs just moved up in Arena a little :3

 

[SuperskinnyBLS]

Vietnamese are officially top5 civs in the game.

 

[T-West]

can't shoot repair vil behind mangonel like you could in voobly

Do you have a rec where that happened on voobly? Last I tested it seemed like you couldn't shoot the siege repair vils on the original game either.

 

[arizonatears]

My dream for Saracens was an Imp tech called Ghilman which would work effectively like supplies for Mamelukes. Not that it would make them great, but it would improve Mames viability. Might be a bit too strong on closed map, I'm unsure.

 

[akku]

Imperial camel got nerfed again? Lol

First, no +1 pierce armour in castle age.
Now 1 damage reduction also.

Indians in general got nerfed here. The +1 PA in castle age being removed is huge for light cav as well.
The fishing bonus also was removed

The cheap monastery tech being removed is a welcome change, but hopefully they get a new bonus instead to not nerf Bohemians too much.

Paper money was trash. But this UT seems too OP for a civ that already has amazing late game with imp skirmisher, one of the best trash units

 

[Tocaraca]

Imperial camel got nerfed again? Lol

First, no +1 pierce armour in castle age.
Now 1 damage reduction also.

Indians in general got nerfed here. The +1 PA in castle age being removed is huge for light cav as well.
The fishing bonus also was removed

Well, their camels attack 25% faster now, which more than makes up for the attack decrease. It was likely done so that they don't just roflstomp halbs like they did when they were first introduced (obviously they weren't cost effective against them, but they would hold up much better than a mounted unit should, especially a counter unit).
They also now have a unique unit that is essentially an eagle warrior. High pierce armor (3+2 in castle age, 6+2 in imperial age), high speed (not sure the exact stat, but looks to be at least 1.2 as in as fast as shotels/karambits/condos), and very cheap (30 food, 45 gold), but it also hits through multiple units, which is fantastic against xbows/arbs. I am assuming the unit will also be good vs eagle warriors, which will improve their matchup vs Mayans significantly (as will the extra armor on HCs+BBCs and potential for 9 range on the HCs). Obviously you need a castle for it, but considering it's like halfway between an eagle and a huskarl, it seems worth it.
Also, they get Plate Barding Armor back now which means their hussars/imp camels have 0+3/0+4 final armor instead of only 0+2/0+4. Gone are the days of their hussars losing to fully upgraded hussars!

 

[willdbeast]

Imperial camel got nerfed again? Lol

First, no +1 pierce armour in castle age.
Now 1 damage reduction also.

Their damage vs buildings TB is nerfed too
But don't forget the +25% attack speed they get now so they're gonna be way stronger in melee than before

 

[Huehuecoyotl22]

I am most curious about the new Paper Money, whether and when players will use it. How efficient it will be compared to deleting villagers and use trade carts instead in TG.

For Incas, it is kind of sad that they go through so many different bonus changes, and never seem to find the right one.

What do people think about Orthodoxy being removed? It surely was not the most impactful technology, but I did like its uniqueness and there were not too many UTs/civ bonuses affecting monks.

 

[chacotanlines]

Cuman mercenaries give all teammates 5 kipchaks per castle.

 

[Potkeny]

What do people think about Orthodoxy being removed? It surely was not the most impactful technology, but I did like its uniqueness and there were not too many UTs/civ bonuses affecting monks.

Now with the "Dodge projectiles" mechanic in-game, can't wait for that being given to monks with a UT!

 

[chacotanlines]

Now with the "Dodge projectiles" mechanic in-game, can't wait for that being given to monks with a UT!

Would suffer the same problems as the current monk UTs.

 

[Huehuecoyotl22]

Now with the "Dodge projectiles" mechanic in-game, can't wait for that being given to monks with a UT!

Or with the "change attack mode" implementation finally have a unit that can convert and attack?

 

[aceace]

What do people think about Orthodoxy being removed? It surely was not the most impactful technology, but I did like its uniqueness and there were not too many UTs/civ bonuses affecting monks.

It was just so bad...

Monks have their power spike at early castle age. Going monks while gathering stone and getting an UT is extremely costly. Then it gives +3/+3 to a unit which have 0/0 armor with abysmal hp.

It was unique but I can't remember when me or my opponent researched it. It was that bad.

 

[Pancrol]

I liked the Madrash tech, it was a very clever implementation.

 

[Lokalo]

I liked the Madrash tech, it was a very clever implementation.

As clever as Orthodoxy, didn't see any being used ever, maybe by arena clowns could have been, but thats about it.

 

[Kaschperili]

- General -
Feudal Age Watch Tower has 850 HP (Up from 700.)

Lets make the Trush great again!

 

[lecracheursagacite]

As clever as Orthodoxy, didn't see any being used ever, maybe by arena clowns could have been, but thats about it.

Yeah a technology that only pays off if you lose more than 3 monks is certainly niche.

 

[dodageka]

What do people think about Orthodoxy being removed? It surely was not the most impactful technology, but I did like its uniqueness and there were not too many UTs/civ bonuses affecting monks.

I liked orthodoxy and madrasah, but I think for technologies like this to have a place in the game they need to be in the monastery. I also think that Orthodoxy should not have given pierce and melee armor, but rather monk armor to reduce the bonus damage monks take (ideally so that scouts/eagles take a extra hit to kill them). Would need to be balanced with the cost/research time to not be too strong on Arena early on, and I fear that it would make siege/monk pushes to strong, but I find this a fun thought.

 

[Tendo]

Rly happy that they change the Inca Teambonus, but the new one doesn't seem too useful either.

Think it would have been way better if the Team Bonus was like "Each Teammate starts with a free Llama" and then give the Civ a new bonus for 1vs1.

 

[dodageka]

Prefer they fix tower mechanics (can't shoot repair vil behind mangonel like you could in voobly,) but it's a start admitting that the great playstyle-banning-era might be over.

Playstyle banning will hopefully never be over - in the end, one of the key objectives of balance changes is to promote playstyles that are fun for the players and discourage playstyles that aren’t. Of course playstyle preferences are a very subjective thing, and there will always be people who suffer because their favorite playstyle gets nerfed or even completely removed from the game, and game developers are destined to make mistakes, but I feel it is much worse to allow unfun playstyles in a game. This is neither to say that I have superior insights into the preferences of the majority of players nor that the devs have taken the right decisions in the past, just stating that I believe in general playstyles should be banned if they are believed to be detrimental to the game

 

[dodageka]

Rly happy that they change the Inca Teambonus, but the new one doesn't seem too useful either.

Think it would have been way better if the Team Bonus was like "Each Teammate starts with a free Llama" and then give the Civ a new bonus for 1vs1.

Don’t underestimate the effect of the new team bonus. More LoS means also a larger search radius which in turn allows the units to engage an enemy quicker - helpful both in large imp-battles and spearmen defending your woodline. It’s just an unfortunate team bonus as these units are not very common in team games, but for 1v1 I like it. Maybe that would be solution for your idea

 

[Lokalo]

Yeah a technology that only pays off if you lose more than 3 monks is certainly niche.

3 monks if we just count gold for technology, then it still needs 200 food and a castle and some time to get it... I could see some situations where it might be good, like playing against elephants, but it's quite lame to have rarely viable unique techs