lan tournaments

[vivifan]

These lan tournaments might be in some ways unfair to players who are not able to attend and won't always be able to attend in the future like Vinch and some of the other players. Vinch through no fault of his own cannot attend and can't particpate even though he worked hard and beat some very good players to get through. It also won't look like he will be able to attend other lan events soon, Also the aoe community is intentionally choosing these lan events knowing some players such as Vinch can't attend. Why can't they let him play from home? and other qualified players who cannot attend. The order of sheep will be second tournament that was huge recently Vinch unable to attend. Just like rbw. For a top player that is sad, and potentially alot of money.

 

[LowEloNobody]

Also the aoe community is intentionally choosing these lan events knowing some players such as Vinch can't attend.

Since when is the "AoE Community" choosing LANs? Seems like a decision coming from Red Bull and GL

 

[Tempires]

LANs have been very rare in AoE. I believe many players have hoped for LANs since those are chance to meet other players in real life.

 

[LeoMontero]

so you are saying that all age comunity loose because some players cant attend to some countries? you cant get more comunist than that

 

[vince]

while it really sucks not to have a guy like vinch playing, this will only be his second event he's missed due to it being a LAN event, out of a ton that have been played online.

it's not like the organizers are intentionally alienating players who can't make it currently. fact is they can't cater every event to please/include everyone all of the time. vinch thankfully got to attend RBW 5 and will get more opportunities soon.

 

[Kamigawa]

While I think that generally lan events are amazing for the community and create a bond between players, careers and viewers I find extremely unfair that in situations where players cannot attend for reasons or of their control they get punished additionally losing big prizes which they earned by qualifying to the events.
I think that some solutions should be found where at least part of what was due to them is granted regardless and maybe the replacement player get less since it wasn't his prize to begin with

 

[LowEloNobody]

While I think that generally lan events are amazing for the community and create a bond between players, careers and viewers I find extremely unfair that in situations where players cannot attend for reasons or of their control they get punished additionally losing big prizes which they earned by qualifying to the events.
I think that some solutions should be found where at least part of what was due to them is granted regardless and maybe the replacement player get less since it wasn't his prize to begin with

For Grand Melee, the qualified player who cannot attend gets the prize from the replacement qualifier, and the replacement player gets whatever they earn in the main event. If you have a decent prizepool distribution to the qualifiers, this method somewhat addresses your point

 

[ninja14]

Lan tournaments in aoe make no sense, may be once a year to cover the social aspect.

Aoe is not a game where 5 ping vs 50/100/200 makes a huge difference compared to games like CSGO. Aoe LANs barring the social aspect offer nothing else on top of online aoe

 

[LeoMontero]

Lan tournaments in aoe make no sense, may be once a year to cover the social aspect.

Aoe is not a game where 5 ping vs 50/100/200 makes a huge difference compared to games like CSGO. Aoe LANs barring the social aspect offer nothing else on top of online aoe

boring,

LAN tournaments are the best, in every discipline, in every game, at every circumstances, everywere, any time

 

[Progeusz]

boring,

LAN tournaments are the best, in every discipline, in every game, at every circumstances, everywere, any time

No they are not. They have some advantages but claiming they're universally the best is ridiculous and honestly, outright stupid.

Especially in AoE 2, online tournaments are much smoother and a lot more competitive.

 

[LowEloNobody]

boring,

LAN tournaments are the best, in every discipline, in every game, at every circumstances, everywere, any time

How do LAN's add any level of competitiveness? If anything, they are the least competitive per dollar of prizepool of any other format

 

[akku]

How do LAN's add any level of competitiveness? If anything, they are the least competitive per dollar of prizepool of any other format

Hype adds to the competitiveness.

Grand Melee is an obvious exception here, with the single elimination.......

 

[Zeev]

It's just a nature of LAN tournaments. There are always players who can't make it for some reason. In other games, it isn't really a big deal because they'll probably have the next LAN next week. I like LAN, it's fun to see players interacting with each other. Of course in AOE2 the players are usually friends or at least respect each other a lot, but in other games there's sometimes some BM involved which can be fun too.

 

[TheShaunPlays]

Lan tournaments in aoe make no sense, may be once a year to cover the social aspect.

Aoe is not a game where 5 ping vs 50/100/200 makes a huge difference compared to games like CSGO. Aoe LANs barring the social aspect offer nothing else on top of online aoe

Don't underestimate the benefits a LAN can provide

Crowd provides a few things , atmosphere, community building, revenue from tickets and other things like merch and food. Player relations, easier anti-cheat, more marketability thus more exposure, being at Dreamhack means even more exposure, better product e.g. casting is done even better (like without discord lag), Riley is fantastic regardless but he's even better at LANs (I know he's not at TGM). More cameras for better angles on players. All up, LAN adds a lot.

 

[IYIyTh]

Don't underestimate the benefits a LAN can provide

Crowd provides a few things , atmosphere, community building, revenue from tickets and other things like merch and food. Player relations, easier anti-cheat, more marketability thus more exposure, being at Dreamhack means even more exposure, better product e.g. casting is done even better (like without discord lag), Riley is fantastic regardless but he's even better at LANs (I know he's not at TGM). More cameras for better angles on players. All up, LAN adds a lot.

Eh, I think it's more even than one would think. The crowd wasn't that big at all, it's likely maybe (only,) the finals we'll see all of those chairs filled out?

I hear more other games crowd cheering than AOE's. I also think the production in an online/offline rec setting tends to be better put together, and renders a lot of the costs involved with a LAN moot. You can spend more on the product/production and it shows. Not sure the different nose hair angles really add much, and let's not forget some of the interviews with players have been just one word responses/exchanges.

Both have merits but I'm not sold that LAN = better.

 

[TheShaunPlays]

Eh, I think it's more even than one would think. The crowd wasn't that big at all, it's likely maybe (only,) the finals we'll see all of those chairs filled out?

I hear more other games crowd cheering than AOE's. I also think the production in an online/offline rec setting tends to be better put together, and renders a lot of the costs involved with a LAN moot. You can spend more on the product/production and it shows. Not sure the different nose hair angles really add much, and let's not forget some of the interviews with players have been just one word responses/exchanges.

Both have merits but I'm not sold that LAN = better.

I never said LAN = better

Just listed it's advantages. Online has benefits too, players in their own set ups, higher level of play (simple fact that all players can participate, lower expenses to host, logistically simpler, the scene is used to them so they usually have less hiccups.

We need both but a lot of people suggesting only 1 LAN/year and the only advantage being ping are not looking at the whole picture

 

[Lokalo]

Well in my opinion there are a lot of things missing/not used which should be benefits of LAN, like for example in RBW, most of player interactions and off scene things were captured by players themself, well I suppose that's kind of logical, but there could be more stuff organised/filmed with players besides playing. I mean if we are mentioning player interactions as bonus for LAN, then perhaps there should be more of it, like today Daut with Jordan joking around before final. I just feel like last interviews in RBW and here werent too great, really enjoyed interviews in Warlords, also in RBW5 there were way better interviews/clips. even some videos how players played chess, bumping villagers, I think RBW5 had more things prepared than RBW6. Although I think it's quite nice that Jordan and Daut were casting today.

Also I think no one mentioned yet, while LAN should make ping/lag thing better, but seems every LAN event there are issues with sound and some other technical issues which usually do not exist in online tournaments.

 

[Progeusz]

Correct me if i'm wrong but aren't all "LAN" in aoe2 DE not actual LANs? Since they're played online just like any other tournament, it's just that all players connect to one server instead of choosing one between their usual locations. That's why aoe4 was able to successfully sabotage RBW5 with their oddly timed test.
So, "no ping" situations don't exist, at best we get "lower ping than usual".

 

[Potkeny]

So, "no ping" situations don't exist, at best we get "lower ping than usual".

I would rather say its "fair ping for both sides" rather than "lower", but agreed.

 

[Lokalo]

I would rather say its "fair ping for both sides" rather than "lower", but agreed.

Well having 40-45 ping in aoe2 is basically no ping, you already can jump in and out for shorter walking times for villager to build farms and stuff, in some shooter it's bit different, but in aoe 45 ping is basically no ping, but sure, is not exactly LAN.

 

[Progeusz]

I would rather say its "fair ping for both sides" rather than "lower", but agreed.

Players always choose servers in the middle between their locations so they always have similar ping on both sides, whether it's 20 ms or 150 ms. Things only get complicated in team games when one or more teams have players all over the world.

 

[Potkeny]

always have similar ping on both sides

But "similar" is not "the same", playing from the same location is more "fair". (And worse jitter can be just as annoying as higher ping, though less in aoe2 compared to the twitchy shooters of course.)

 

[Progeusz]

But "similar" is not "the same", playing from the same location is more "fair". (And worse jitter can be just as annoying as higher ping, though less in aoe2 compared to the twitchy shooters of course.)

The difference is small enough that it really doesn't matter. As others have said, AoE 2 isn't a game where you need single digit ping. That's why difference between 87 ms and 92 ms really isn't significant to the point where it could affect outcome. It is fair. LAN won't make things more fair. If anything, it makes things more unfair, because different people react differently to playing outside of their comfort zone (home).

>jitter
Players had lag issues in RBW 5 and 6. Pseudo "LAN" doesn't prevent those. Only real LAN could. But there's still the issue of playing on unknown PCs so if any issues occur, they are confusing.

 

[Potkeny]

Players had lag issues in RBW 5 and 6.

But they both had that, not only one of them, right? And that's why I said its rather more fair than better, as the same problems can happen even on these "lans", just it will happen to both players.

If we still had the p2p structure, it would be more for less ping, but with the server-client DE version, playing from the same location is a step towards "similar" environments rather than "better". (And while playing from home might be more comfy, playing at 4 AM depending on your timezone is arguably not.)

 

[LeoMontero]

No they are not. They have some advantages but claiming they're universally the best is ridiculous and honestly, outright stupid.

Especially in AoE 2, online tournaments are much smoother and a lot more competitive.

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