KotD4 | Questions & Answers

[Milu_el_barbaro]

I have a question regarding the group stage matches and the posterior bracket, as I been looking at the handbook and is not clear at all.

Couple of thing stated in the handbook:
- If a player wins someone with a better seed, he gets that seed (pg 16, Seeding 2.b)
- The best seeded player always plays against the worst seeded; the second best against the second worst and so on (pg 12)

And another fact that Chrazini confirmed but is not included anywhere in the handbook:
- During the group stage a match cannot be repeated

Finally, we have this image (pg 14)

Just to simplify, as it will be the same for groups A and B, lets look just at group A.
According to the actual seeding and the way to stablish the matches, the opening round will be:
1vs16 ; 4vs13 ; 5vs12 ; 8vs9
If we put names there:
Liereyy vs slam; Mr.Yo vs dogao; DauT vs Nicov; Villese vs TatoH

Next round the winners will inherit the higher seed of their match. So, if slam beats Liereyy, slam will become seed 1 and Liereyy seed 16, ¿right? I am not sure about this point, but that is what is written in the "Seeding" part concerning the main event...
Therefore, we will have the following matches

Winners: 1vs8 ; 4vs5
Losers: 9vs16 ; 12vs13

So if the initially higher seeded win their matches we will have:
Winners: Liereyy vs Villese ; Mr.Yo vs DauT
Losers: TatoH vs slam ; Nicov vs dogao

And in the last round, forcefully the matches should be
Deciders: 8vs9; 5vs12

But, if again the initially higher seeded players win their matches we will have
Villese vs TatoH; DauT vs Nicov

That cannot be because we cannot repeat matches, as Charzini stated, so, how those games will be determined? As 5 cannot match against 12, then will the player face the next possible option, which is 9? (So in the example DauT vs TatoH ; Villese vs Nicov )

But let's not stop there.

In the pag 12 of the handbook is also stated that in case of a tie... [Well I don't fully understand this, because according to the image there are no ties, is clear where each player will go after every round. I will assume that the image has to be wrong and this is referring to the positioning in the final bracket depending on the results of the group stage.] ...in case of a tie, it will be solved first by looking at the direct match-up of the tied players, or in case of not have happened, to the seeding (the initial seeding? The seeding inherit along the groups stage?).
I assume that the first four will be the four players that have won the winners match, separated by group (A1 first, A2 first, B1 first, B2 first), and the order within each group is directly stablished by their seeding, as they could have not faced each other (So if Liereyy wins his two matches, Mr.Yo cannot be A1 first as he has a lower seed).
The other four players, the ones that qualified in the deciders, are also separated by group, and then arranged accordingly the opening match (if they crossed) or the seeding (if they didn't). Is this right?

I mean, I just want to understand how the system works... :/

I don't know if I made my point, but the explanation in the handbook is not very clear and that image is not helping at all!

Thanks!

 

[Milu_el_barbaro]

Just to be clear, what I explained in the post before is what I have understood from interpreting literally the handbook.

My feeling is that the seed is not inherit from a player you have won in the stage group (that was used just in the stage before), and therefore each round of the group stage is determined used the initial seeding of the player by the afforementioned system.

For example, if all the higher seeded players in group A win their opening match, the winner matches will be exactly the same as I said in the previous post.
But if instead slam wins Liereyy, slam will still be seed 16 (and not 1) and then the winners round will be: Mr. Yo vs slam and DauT vs Villese

This method is way more logic, but this is something that I can just suppose or imagine from what is written in the handbook.

 

[Rorarimbo]

Right now I cannot go over the handbook. But Chrazini makes regular updates if there is smth that he thinks needs to get clarified. However judging from your post I can tell that you understood corectly how it works. And yes seeding is inherited if lower seeded player wins a higher seed. If Slam wins against Liereyy and all other matches finish with no "surprises" he is going to play Vilesse in round 2. The image there just displays how it would look like if there are no ""surprises"

 

[Spawn]

Just to be clear, what I explained in the post before is what I have understood from interpreting literally the handbook.

My feeling is that the seed is not inherit from a player you have won in the stage group (that was used just in the stage before), and therefore each round of the group stage is determined used the initial seeding of the player by the afforementioned system.

For example, if all the higher seeded players in group A win their opening match, the winner matches will be exactly the same as I said in the previous post.
But if instead slam wins Liereyy, slam will still be seed 16 (and not 1) and then the winners round will be: Mr. Yo vs slam and DauT vs Villese

This method is way more logic, but this is something that I can just suppose or imagine from what is written in the handbook.

I asked about the seeding some weeks ago and the inherited seeding follows the entire tournament was essentially the answer I got.
So if slam beats Liereyy and inherits the no.1 seed he should get the better matchup for round 2.

When I read the handbook it is the way I interpreted it, I would say logic is debatable, but the inherited seeding actually makes things very simple and not overly complicated.

Final playoff placement ties are as 1/2 and 3/4 is broken by seed, which is inherited seed not original.

Honestly, I think the handbook is pretty clear, it only becomes somewhat unclear if you choose to ignore some of the parameters defined by previous pages and then try to pick apart the language. Which trust me i did the same thing, but you reread it and its pretty simple and well written.

 

[Min]

Right now I cannot go over the handbook. But Chrazini makes regular updates if there is smth that he thinks needs to get clarified. However judging from your post I can tell that you understood corectly how it works. And yes seeding is inherited if lower seeded player wins a higher seed. If Slam wins against Liereyy and all other matches finish with no "surprises" he is going to play Vilesse in round 2. The image there just displays how it would look like if there are no ""surprises"

So how are situations where seeding in the third round (of the group stage) demand a repeat match-up of a match in the first round (of the group stage) handled then? Is it allowed? If it is not allowed how are the matches decided in such a scenario?

 

[Rorarimbo]

So how are situations where seeding in the third round (of the group stage) demand a repeat match-up of a match in the first round (of the group stage) handled then? Is it allowed? If it is not allowed how are the matches decided in such a scenario?

No, repeated matches are not allowed. If in the last round from the four remaining players the highest and lowest seed or the second and third highest seed already have played in round one, we will have the oppenents switched with the highest playng with the third highest and the second highest playing against the lowest seed.

 

[Milu_el_barbaro]

So the bracket for group A is as follows, right?
And the "fixed" position for the deciders, concerning the final bracket, is the winner of the match with L1, will be A1 second
(The same for group B)

 

[Rorarimbo]

So the bracket for group A is as follows, right?
And the "fixed" position for the deciders, concerning the final bracket, is the winner of the match with L1, will be A1 second
(The same for group B)

I am sorry I dont understand well

 

[Milu_el_barbaro]

Ops, the image did not load, sorry.
Here the full bracket, if I understood well


(There is a small mistake. The loser from W1-W2 is L2, and the loser of W3-W4 is L1)

 

[Rorarimbo]

Yes looks like it. We havent considered the "L" players as fixed positions but if there are, what you display with the correction you make, does make sense.

 

[Milu_el_barbaro]

Yes looks like it. We havent considered the "L" players as fixed positions but if there are, what you display with the correction you make, does make sense.

Yes, I just saw that.
But as I saw that L1 and L2 would never cross (because L1vsL3 and L2vsL4 cannot possibly happen before the deciders, so that option will always be viable), forcefully the winner of the L1 decider match will always be A/B1 second; and the winner of the L2 decider match will always be A/B2 second.


Thanks a lot! Now it is 100% clear for me :D

 

[HappyLeaves]

Who produced the player statistics?

 

[amazing_knight]

Who produced the player statistics?

+1

Also would love to know are these stats based on Arabia Ladder games or tourney games? TIA.

 

[Rorarimbo]

+1

Also would love to know are these stats based on Arabia Ladder games or tourney games? TIA.

The stars are based on 1v1 Arabia ranked games between the players that made it to the top 16.

 

[Dusk2Dawn]

I can see why alot of confusion about these groups: they are called swiss format, but in reality they are GSL groups, just double, maybe in the decider matches, we will have forced different matches in case it would've went to the same matches as the opening days, maybe that's where swiss kicks in ;

 

[Rorarimbo]

As we are done with the first two rounds of the group stage I want to make a short clarification post for the possibilities of the quarterfinal brackets.

Spoiler

As you know Liereyy, Yo, Viper and Jordan won both their games and have qualified for the quarterfinals already. In the bracket their positions are set at A1, A2, B1, B2 respectivelly. If they win their next matches the semies will be Liereyy vs Yo and Viper vs Jordan. There are however some variations when it comes to their quarterfinal opponents.

In the most likely scenario Liereyy will face the winner of MbL vs Sitaux, Yo will play the winner of Hera vs Vinchester, Viper will meet the winner of Tatoh vs Nicov ,and Jordan will face the winner of Daut vs Villese.

There are two conditions that may cause changes to this option: (1) Both Mbl and Vinchester win their deciders and/or (2) Both Tatoh and Villese win their matches on Friday.

The reason for that is we give advantage to direct clashes between tied players over seed when it comes to group standings. In the above conditions Mbl/Tatoh already won against Vinchester/Villese in round 1. This means according such scenarios MbL will play agains Yo and Vinchester will have to face Liereyy, and/or Tatoh will play against Jordan while Villese will meet Viper.

I know Its Q&A and noone asked yet. But as we may run into these options I wanted to have that explained.

 

[oozkan]

I know Its Q&A and noone asked yet. But as we may run into these options I wanted to have that explained.

Can someone explain quarterfinal bracket possibilities?

Now you are safe, if PKZ knocks your door, write me as an alibi.