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[Chrazini]

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Feedback​

We encourage anyone to post their feedback about the King of the Desert IV event here.
Anything from the format, map, settings or something entirely different is welcome.

Please refrain from having lengthy discussions about the feedback provided. You may add or elaborate on feedback from others, but debating or in other ways arguing against others' submissions should be taken to other threads.

 

[nimanoe]

I've said it before and I'll keep saying it, but if player A has the last ban, they shouldn't get the first pick. In a situation where there are two clear best civs (for example there could be two maps where that civ is very likely to win), then if player B bans one of those civs, player A won't and pick the other one. If player B doesn't ban any of those civs, player A will ban one and pick the other. This gives a clear unfair advantage to player A.

Participants are grouped by score; then, within a group, the highest-seeded player will be facing the
lowest-seeded player.

What does score refer to? Is it series won or games won?
I also would've preferred the Dutch system, where for example in group A the opening matches would be seed 1 vs 9, 4 vs 12, 5 vs 13 and 8 vs 16. Otherwise getting seed 16 means you'll have to play the top seed each time with the same score as you, which seems a bit harsh and makes their path to qualification way harder than that of a player with a higher seed.

Ties are inevitable with this system and will be broken by the two following factors. Firstly, checking
whether the players have played each other earlier. If they have, whoever won the head-to-head match
will break the tie. If they have not played earlier, the player’s seed will break the tie.

I'm not sure how this works in case there's a tie between more than 2 players.
Let's say after round 2 there's four people tied with 1 series won and 1 series lost. Their seeds are: 5, 8, 9 and 13. Seeds 8 and 9 played each other before and seed 9 won, the others didn't meet. How would the matches for the decider matches then be?

 

[SuperskinnyBLS]

I've said it before and I'll keep saying it, but if player A has the last ban, they shouldn't get the first pick. In a situation where there are two clear best civs (for example there could be two maps where that civ is very likely to win), then if player B bans one of those civs, player A won't and pick the other one. If player B doesn't ban any of those civs, player A will ban one and pick the other. This gives a clear unfair advantage to player A.


What does score refer to? Is it series won or games won?
I also would've preferred the Dutch system, where for example in group A the opening matches would be seed 1 vs 9, 4 vs 12, 5 vs 13 and 8 vs 16. Otherwise getting seed 16 means you'll have to play the top seed each time with the same score as you, which seems a bit harsh and makes their path to qualification way harder than that of a player with a higher seed.

I'm not sure how this works in case there's a tie between more than 2 players.
Let's say after round 2 there's four people tied with 1 series won and 1 series lost. Their seeds are: 5, 8, 9 and 13. Seeds 8 and 9 played each other before and seed 9 won, the others didn't meet. How would the matches for the decider matches then be?

tl;dr but you usually are right so I drop a like

 

[Tedious_Tarkan]

Good choice making finals Bo9 again.

 

[bigus.dicus.official]

good choice playing semis and final on separate days

 

[Lord_patito]

Any chance to get the decider of the groups switching pkayers from one group to other? That way we get sure we won't see a match twice

 

[green eggs]

I'm not sure how this works in case there's a tie between more than 2 players.
Let's say after round 2 there's four people tied with 1 series won and 1 series lost. Their seeds are: 5, 8, 9 and 13. Seeds 8 and 9 played each other before and seed 9 won, the others didn't meet. How would the matches for the decider matches then be?

I may be misinterpreting your question, but I think the reference to ties relates to the standings after round 3, where in each group there will be two (and only two) players who have lost one series and won two.

 

[lecracheursagacite]

Good choice making finals Bo9 again.

good choice playing semis and final on separate days

There is for sure a luxury afforded when a tournament takes a more positive appraisal of its ability to hold the viewers interest. The comments I have seen in the announcement thread make it seem like this confidence is well-placed.

 

[Spawn]

I think the tournament structure is good, the only thing I would change is the qualifying format, KotD is suffering from the same issue all recent qualifiers have in terms of essentially creating mini brackets.

KotD is generally know as the most competitive tournament thus I think the qualifiers could be dramatically improved if from the round of 32 it was switched to double elimination.

At the moment the bracket is essentially divided into 16 mini brackets, essentially based DE RM Elo at that point for seeding means good chance we aren't going to get the next 16 best players in the main event, more likely some players are going to have easier routes then other because of the slight variation a few elo points on the ladder might make.

If instead qualifying after winning your Ro32 Match you had the Winners go onto Ro16 and then those 8 winners a qualified .
Mean while the loses in the Ro32 cross match to play down to 8 players which would then face the loses of the Ro16 with the winner of those match's qualifying you would end up with a drastically more completive 16 qualified players ..

Personally As a viewer I would find this much more enjoyable, I think its worth it even to scrap the Ro512 or even the Ro256 if needed to make up the time and start with 128 players .

This would lead to much more competitive format that is more fair for players and also better for views.

 

[Tedious_Tarkan]

Ro512, Ro256, seem unnecessary. I hope there are only 128 participants for Chrazini's sake 11.

 

[Chrazini]

I generally don't respond to feedback, but since it seems specific questions have been raised, I'll go ahead and answer those.

The score refers to the series won. This system is chosen because it is essentially an extended version of the GSL system used previously. It was specially created to get rid of repeat matches, while keeping the system similar to the last iteration of King of the Desert.

It's essential that no matchups are repeated, which means that any awkward situation in the decider matches would cause the matches to be arranged differently. In the example that Nimanoe provided, it would be 5 vs 9 and 8 vs 13.

The tie-breakers are used for players qualifying for the quarterfinals and helps decide their position.

 

[Tedious_Tarkan]

Oh, all games are to be played on set schedule? Makes it easier for staff, not having to oversee scheduling, but I feel for the Aussie, Japanese, and Viet players... and anyone who works for a living.

Sacrifice to the server gods daily.

 

[dave_hun]

Isn't it a bit ambitious to have the entire qualification stage over 1 weekend? If I recall, that caused some problems in last Redbull event too...

On top of a possibly too tight schedule, having just 1 weekend instead of 2 for qualifiers is also unfortunate. 30th and 31st of October are the only 2 days I'll be away from home this month, so that means I won't be able to take part. 1st of November is a national holiday in my country, so many people here go places on the 3-day weekend, although there are not an abundance of hungarian players on the scene, I'd wager this might only affect me, so it's whatever.

If some other players also can't make it due to the single weekend qualifier then that would make me sad though.

 

[Potkeny]

If some other players also can't make it due to the single weekend qualifier then that would make me sad though.

Of course there are some, just as an example we have Bugum.

https://twitter.com/belgium_project/status/1447480155216269314

 

[gambasimo95]

As a viewer, I would prefer to have two qualifications in two different weeks with 128 players instead of only one with 512, I think it would be better for a competitive scene.

 

[MembTV]

As a viewer, I would prefer to have two qualifications in two different weeks with 128 players instead of only one with 512, I think it would be better for a competitive scene.

The times choosen for tournament and qualifiers were the only free times we had for the tournament, there was nothing else available.

We have announced as soon as we could have everything ready and to let people know the time to play, which for us 3 weeks is enough time, even more knowing since august that the tournament should be around this times.

 

[HongeyKong]

Isn't it a bit ambitious to have the entire qualification stage over 1 weekend? If I recall, that caused some problems in last Redbull event too...

On top of a possibly too tight schedule, having just 1 weekend instead of 2 for qualifiers is also unfortunate. 30th and 31st of October are the only 2 days I'll be away from home this month, so that means I won't be able to take part. 1st of November is a national holiday in my country, so many people here go places on the 3-day weekend, although there are not an abundance of hungarian players on the scene, I'd wager this might only affect me, so it's whatever.

If some other players also can't make it due to the single weekend qualifier then that would make me sad though.

RBW5 only had two spots, despite also starting from RO512.

I agree with the rest of your comment, but it is what it is I guess.

 

[bigus.dicus.official]

it is impossible to accommodate every single player who wants to take part in the quali, this we can all agree on. AFAIK, if you really want to take part, you would do anything you can to move your plans around the KOTD qualis knowing what is at stake... Unless you re getting married that weekend .
3 weeks notice is more than enough in my opinion

 

[NelsonMejias]

i like this civ pick more than the Kotd3 but i think still can be improved, i think in the KOTD2 with a few less civs, used in former rounds civs were automatically banned and u should pick another civs, which lead sometimes to mirror matches and i think that variant is better than this (not because of the mirror matches, is just an example), even tho this KOTD4 is way better than the 3 one, which basically converted the tournament in a boring king of the metaciv 3, please dont go back there

 

[willdbeast]

i like this civ pick more than the Kotd3 but i think still can be improved, i think in the KOTD2 with a few less civs, used in former rounds civs were automatically banned and u should pick another civs, which lead sometimes to mirror matches and i think that variant is better than this (not because of the mirror matches, is just an example), even tho this KOTD4 is way better than the 3 one, which basically converted the tournament in a boring king of the metaciv 3, please dont go back there

The problem with not being able to use civs from the previous round is if you get an easier bracket it helps you doubly - you get an easier game and you can save good civs for the next set. But for a player not quite at the top they will need to use all the good civs they can to progress since they will have a very tight matchup, only to get slapped by chinese or w/e next set.

 

[Chezdon]

it is impossible to accommodate every single player who wants to take part in the quali, this we can all agree on. AFAIK, if you really want to take part, you would do anything you can to move your plans around the KOTD qualis knowing what is at stake... Unless you re getting married that weekend .
3 weeks notice is more than enough in my opinion

Yep. Not even up for debate imo. Three weeks is more than enough time and lets be honest, none of them will make it much further than the already invited 16.

 

[Tedious_Tarkan]

none of them will make it much further than the already invited 16.

Slam, Kasva, Valas, Songsong, Badboy, Sitaux, and many others have chances.
There have been many upsets in recent events and in KotD history, look Chart in KotD3.

if you really want to take part, you would do anything you can to move your plans around

Three weeks is more than enough time

Sometimes it is impossible to get certain days off work, or to reschedule a trip. It is unfortunate there is only single qualification. Lets hope no more than Bugum gets left out.

 

[LaaaaaN]

Meh

1st, can't understand how qualifiers are going to be played on a holiday weekend in all the world. Most people travel this weekend.
2nd, this qualifier format only benefits casters, it's terrible for players. 70% time waiting for your game 20% playing 10% looking for your opponent. This is not a problem for the casters because there are 9999 games going on and they can switch, but for us? it's like losing all saturday and still u can lose on sunday and get nothing, TERRIBLE.
3rd, 16 invited players? 11 come on, kinda tired of this (obviously not speaking by myself because im not playing, but whattttttttttt, just make it only invitational, it's the same 11) not only these players deserve an invitation, it is controversial, there are some more that deserve it too

See you in 2047

 

[Cuth]

Meh

1st, can't understand how qualifiers are going to be played on a holiday weekend in all the world. Most people travel this weekend.
2nd, this qualifier format only benefits casters, it's terrible for players. 70% time waiting for your game 20% playing 10% looking for your opponent. This is not a problem for the casters because there are 9999 games going on and they can switch, but for us? it's like losing all saturday and still u can lose on sunday and get nothing, TERRIBLE.
3rd, 16 invited players? 11 come on, kinda tired of this (obviously not speaking by myself because im not playing, but whattttttttttt, just make it only invitational, it's the same 11) not only these players deserve an invitation, it is controversial, there are some more that deserve it too

See you in 2047

Lmao,16 spots for qualifiers and people still cry about invites.

I have absolutely no idea what holiday is planned that weekend. What is this global holiday you speak of?

and your 2nd point makes even less sense.

 

[PROject_Belgium]

Lmao,16 spots for qualifiers and people still cry about invites.

I have absolutely no idea what holiday is planned that weekend. What is this global holiday you speak of?

and your 2nd point makes even less sense.

His 2d point makes the most sense. having to play a ro512 is an absolute waste of your weekend. However with this tournament the payout is quite deep so good on that part.

Idk when it became the fashion to include ro200+ for an S-tier tournament. Like laan said you have to wait so long in between games that are basically pointless to play since if you are a top 30 player any round above 128 is a stomp.

I wish we could go back to regular ro64 qualifiers for tournaments. And it's not like new players don't get a chance to play in tournament, there are plently being hosted. But in my opinion they shouldn't be allowed in S-tier tourneys.