KotD4 | Discussion & Talk

[SuperskinnyBLS]

The worst of Liereyy since his aoe2 dark ages ( beginning of DE I guess ). Reactive every game, with a bad macro and terrible decisions.

 

[marco47]

Many things can be true at the same time. Vinch is playing at his highest level and both Hera and Liereyy didn't play their best this tourney. Compare Hera's micro this time with his micro in HC4 and you'll see a huge difference. None of that takes anything from Vinch wins. In HC4, for instance, when Hera finally beat Liereyy in a big tourney, Liereyy wasn't playing his best but I don't think that takes anything from his achievement.

Congrats Vinch and I think it would be amazing if he won the whole thing!

 

[SuperskinnyBLS]

Many things can be true at the same time. Vinch is playing at his highest level and both Hera and Liereyy didn't play their best this tourney. Compare Hera's micro this time with his micro in HC4 and you'll see a huge difference. None of that takes anything from Vinch wins. In HC4, for instance, when Hera finally beat Liereyy in a big tourney, Liereyy wasn't playing his best but I don't think that takes anything from his achievement.

Congrats Vinch and I think it would be amazing if he won the whole thing!

I need to see Viper's form today but something is telling me that Snake is going to grab the victory... pretty easily.

 

[Freezing_Point]

It's ironic that they put so much effort on that cartoon and one of the finalists this time wasn't even in it.

 

[ramzes2000]

Lierey vs Vinchester 1-4
Viper vs Jordan 4-2

Final Viper vs Vinchester 4-1

 

[LeoMontero]

If Lierrey went skirms, he wouldn't have anywhere close to the imp time he had in game. He also didn't have the eco setup for skirms. Also Skirms against Indian Hussars just doesn't sound good at all.

make another thing, or change the setup of your economy, because he lost simply against skirms, one of the most weak uniots in the game, only good against archers.
what matters the imperial time if you have not the propper units.
game 3, aztec against poles, lierey almost loose again because skirms, he changed to infantry and win.
and im not saying that he must go skirms, but if the enemy make them, you must make them or something to kill them, because they eat archers. its stupid to make archers against skirms.

 

[wincher01]

Lierey vs Vinchester 1-4
Viper vs Jordan 4-2

Final Viper vs Vinchester 4-1

I'm looking forward to Monday for your final prediction

 

[LeoMontero]

make knights = lose every game, make xbows = win every game, this is what high level aoe2 has been for quite awhile. Huge, cheap power spike, and impossible for opponent to win if you just camp your base massing.

no, you didnt watch this series obviously. first game, lierey loose with archers. third game, if lierey didnt change to infantry he would loose.
so, not always is like that
and the inca game, lierey also go archers and knights, and vinch didnt do archers and win

 

[Tendo]

It's incredible how Vinch can beat 3 out of the top 4, get into the finals of kotd4 and some ppl still claim he won because his opponents had "not the best day" 11

 

[SuperskinnyBLS]

The craziest thing is the fact that Liereyy with Aztecs vs Poles and 5 relics collected barely won the game. He really was playing bad today.

 

[LeoMontero]

The worst of Liereyy since his aoe2 dark ages ( beginning of DE I guess ). Reactive every game, with a bad macro and terrible decisions.

i said already, the one TC push or one TC imperial is weak if the enemy can resist. he always was back in vils.

 

[Freezing_Point]

I think Vinch also just figured him out. Liereyy can micro down defensive skirmishers or mangonels with his archer raids, but good luck trying to kill a tower with 3 or 4 archers. Add in iffy decisionmaking by Liereyy and Vinch being one of the few players he can't outspeed, and it gets dire for the kid.

 

[LeoMontero]

The craziest thing is the fact that Liereyy with Aztecs vs Poles and 5 relics collected barely won the game. He really was playing bad today.

lierey makes archers, always, with every civ 90% of the times. if he changed to inantry before, he could win earlier

 

[Influenza]

no, you didnt watch this series obviously. first game, lierey loose with archers. third game, if lierey didnt change to infantry he would loose.
so, not always is like that
and the inca game, lierey also go archers and knights, and vinch didnt do archers and win

liereyy never "changed to infantry" in the 3rd game, he made some infantry as a meat shield for his.. mass xbows and arbs. First game was ranged unit vs ranged unit for the majority of the game. Make knights -> lose in all games knights appeared in.

 

[LeoMontero]

liereyy never "changed to infantry" in the 3rd game, he made some infantry as a meat shield for his.. mass xbows and arbs. First game was ranged unit vs ranged unit for the majority of the game. Make knights -> lose in all games knights appeared in.

men, the aztec game, turns in favour of lierey because of infantry, he had 4 trebs and champions, plus pikemans, watch the replay.
the first game, lierey should change to other unit than archer before. in one part of the game, both in imperial, and vinch without castel, lierey continue with archers, and vinch defend only with skirms. then vinch made 3 bombards and destroy.

 

[Freezing_Point]

lierey makes archers, always, with every civ 90% of the times. if he changed to inantry before, he could win earlier

*Flashback to the TeTe Invitational where Liereyy did his usual flank mass crossbow play as Franks*

 

[Influenza]

men, the aztec game, turns in favour of lierey because of infantry, he had 4 trebs and champions, plus pikemans, watch the replay.
the first game, lierey should change to other unit than archer before. in one part of the game, both in imperial, and vinch without castel, lierey continue with archers, and vinch defend only with skirms. then vinch made 3 bombards and destroy.

lierey was japanese in that game, stable units in imp without +4 armor are awful, what else is there to make? But you are right about the aztec game, lierey stopped making arbs... about one hour into the game when there were no longer cavaliers. Surely, massing xbows and arbs had nothing to do with that victory. Regardless, ranged units are blatantly OP in DE, this series is just one example of many.

 

[SuperskinnyBLS]

Shouldn't this be an admin RE? Just compare the sizes of ponds for both players and those bugged birds

 

[Freezing_Point]

We don't have time to obsess over birds, man! Who do you think you are, T90?!

 

[Giuseppe551]

make knights = lose every game, make xbows = win every game, this is what high level aoe2 has been for quite awhile.

We've seen a wide variety of castle age strategies so far this tournament (see: https://www.aoezone.net/threads/whats-the-meta-of-aoe2-analysis-of-kotd-quarterfinals.178673/). That wouldn't be the case if what you say is true. I don't see a huge problem, knights have always been weak to big groups of xbow/arb unless they get a total surround which is hard to do in practice.

 

[Influenza]

We've seen a wide variety of castle age strategies so far this tournament (see: https://www.aoezone.net/threads/whats-the-meta-of-aoe2-analysis-of-kotd-quarterfinals.178673/). That wouldn't be the case if what you say is true. I don't see a huge problem, knights have always been weak to big groups of xbow/arb unless they get a total surround which is hard to do in practice.

uhm, lol. you are just proving my point for me now...

Notice how there's way more green than red on that chart? Notice how red never beat green in all those games? The closest thing we have to knights beating xbows is villese with kts+xbows losing vs viper's burgundian cavaliers.

 

[SuperskinnyBLS]

JORDAN IS BACK

 

[Nicov]

The problem are not the archer/xbows "being OP", but the stupid attack move speed boost bug being abused like hell just like the pike patrol back in the days. It makes you need 2x more knights to clean up a mass of xbows than you would need if your opponent actually microed the xbows with the typical shoot-retreat-shoot-retreat.

I have missed the games but i'll probably catch up tonight. Well played Vinch!

 

[Tocaraca]

 

[Tocaraca]

The problem are not the archer/xbows "being OP", but the stupid attack move speed boost bug being abused like hell just like the pike patrol back in the days. It makes you need 2x more knights to clean up a mass of xbows than you would need if your opponent actually microed the xbows with the typical shoot-retreat-shoot-retreat.

I have missed the games but i'll probably catch up tonight. Well played Vinch!

That's not a bug tho