[KotD2] Official Announcement

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Announcement
After the great success of King of the Desert and Battle of Africa, we are thrilled and proud to announce the next big tournament.
Together with Microsoft, we have managed to get a total prize pool of 15,800$, which will guarantee one of the most exciting and astounding tournaments in the history of Age of Empires.

King of the Desert 2 is the successor to the memorable tournament with the same name back in 2017, hosted by MembTV & Swissboyy. The tournament will feature 32 of the very best players in Age of Empires 2 – fighting over the span of five weeks.

To read all the rules and settings, click here.
Registrations is open and can be submitted here.

Watch live, on MembTV, as players battle and fight each other for complete domination in the extremely open and dangerous Arabian desert - Starting from the 31st of December all the way to the grand finale that will take place on the 3rd of February.


WHO WILL WIN?
WHO WILL BE THE NEXT KING OF THE DESERT?
 

Comments

GermanyAthasos

Longswordman
Jul 8, 2017
553
785
108
Hessen, Germany
#55
I don't think you should dismiss it that way, you're not doing anyone a service by calling it "stupid drama". There is an interesting -and hard to answer- question that is asked here with the streaming rules.

Nobody is denying that Memb is taking risks by putting forth the money and that it is totally fair that other streamers wishing to cast the event would contribute as well (given that the price is per subscriber and not fixed, it is arguably more affordable for smaller streamers). The question is whether or not this is the best way of making sure Memb benefits the most from the event (growth wise, money wise, whatever he considers benefitting from the event!).

If you look at the bigger picture, closed streaming means less viewership, and potentially less growth for the competitive scene. It is impossible to measure exactly how it played, but having the fully open streaming policy on KOTD 1 could have led to an increase in overall viewers base which in turn could have motivated Microsoft to invest into the second opus of the tournament. Who knows?
It was specificly targeted at one person, who I metioned in my post.
He was giving no arguments and was only trying to create drama without actually talking about the reasons and the pros and cons of pay to stream.
The sad realitiy is, that Memb, who made a lot of efforts in late 2017/ early 2018 didn't profit as much from his investments, as others did.
BoA was a great for the overall community, but if you break it down to the individual people in the community, it helped T90 a lot, was useful for the potential viewership of both NAC and ECL and probably helped Tyrant as well to convince Secret.
On the other hand Memb didn't grew his subcount (unlike KotD) and he had all the work (let's not forget swissboy here ofc he also played a big role).
It's a dilemma for sure, if Memb just makes the event open streaming he'll get overshadowed by T90 once again and fewer new people will come to his stream. NAC for example, was only that successfull for Nili, as he was the only guy streaming it.
MBL mentioned earlier, that Nili, who organises NAC is getting very few viewers for one of the most anticipated matches while other streams get fantastic numbers.
We need a way to reward those people who put all the effort and if there is another way I would love to see it, but I fail to imagine another realistic way.
 

Norwaybuddy__1

Well-Known Member
Jul 30, 2016
268
330
68
#56
I'm very impressed by what you put togeher, Memb, thank you!

As always, I'm really looking forward to the event.

It takes a LOT of work to put together these events. The entire burden is on you, if viewers shows up, if players sign up, you have to admin every game, be there every game, youre responsible for everything which happens with all the games. And you have to suffer through the anxiety of it all. On top of that memb puts in a huge prizepool.

So why shouldnt other streamers who wants to cast it chime in with their part, for the top quality hype content a great event like this contains?

I think you can very well make the case that $0.5 per sub is a bargain in some ways. T90 is the biggest streamer, and he has 1800 subs, which would mean around $900. Which is a lot of money. But compared to all the work and the $5000 from memb, it doesnt feel all that crazy.

And its no fun to organize an entire event, then other huge streamers comes in and takes all the viewers. The incentive should be towards benefiting the organizer. And over time, if memb host one tournament, then t90 the next, they pay each other.

Then you can ask how much is a fair amount for getting to cast a tournament you didnt organize yourself. I dont know what is the norm in other areas or what the numbers would be in the end, but I feel thats really the core of this discussion.

So really we need a properly set "standard" for how much the different streamers should pay to the other streamers for putting together a tournament, if they want to cast it. Of course there is always the option to choose not to cast as well, though optimally, from a "benefitting the community" POV, all the biggest streamers will cast the big tournaments i guess.
 
Last edited:

PeruHearttt

Halberdier
Sep 5, 2015
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#57
Personally I've always been in favor of closed/semi closed streaming as it's been pretty evident in the last 2 years that "content stealing" has been a growing issue, yet not really addressed. Now, the way of doing it is something more tricky, as basically taxing someone as big as T90 for 1k$ or so (not sure how many subs he has atm) puts a massive hit on his income for that specific month, which should be far from the goal here. I think a general rule is good, but negotiations have to be made when it comes to someone as influencial as T90 to find a middle ground where both parties can benefit. For smaller streamers, paying a one time 50$ fee for casting quite a few series over the course of a month+ shouldn't be a problem, especially if they get their communities to support them.

I'm just going to put it out there that I've helped organize showmatches in the past with T90 and I always offered him to make it closed streaming or force other streamers to contribute in some way to make sure that his channel gets full attention as he was putting up his own money for it. He refused every time as he thought that it could start a trend that would hurt the game's overall viewership, and I quote from a conversation with him on Discord: "Might not be best for me directly to leave it open, but it's best for the game which is what matters." Hopefully this can be a two way street and a more sensitive agreement can be found.

Other than that, haven't really read the rules and stuff but I am sure it will be a great tournament, looking forward to it.
 

PortugalMaSmOrRa

Knight
Bronze Supporter
Sep 24, 2012
1,418
940
138
#58
Absolutely fantastic news that Memb got to partner with Microsoft!
And yeah I share everyone else's hype for this tournament. It's gonna be awesome!
Even if I personally am a bit sad swissboy is not the one administrating it.
(Absolutely no offense intended towards Chrazini who I'm sure will do a heck of a job too)


$0.50 per sub is actually really cheap given the amount of money and time Memb has personally invested.
While I absolutely agree with the premise that casters who benefit from broadcasting the event should pitch in in some shape or form, I'm not sure this is the best way to approach it.

As it is now, this rule is basically targeting someone's success as a streamer. Even when the reason for that someone being a successful streamer has nothing to do with the tournament itself.

I think it would maybe make more sense to use the number of people who subscribe to the stream during the broadcasting of the event as a starting point and then charge like 50% (or whatever everyone agrees to) from the subscription money made during that stream?
This way you are objectively taxing the money someone is making by streaming someone else's event.
Seems a bit more fair to me.
 

Finlandbuhanisson

Longswordman
May 29, 2015
345
875
108
#59
I agree that maybe that would be more fair, but even though I trust and love equally everyone in the community etc, it's easy to see why someone would prefer in advance payments in all this kind of online gaming stuff whenever possible.
 
Likes: Rey_Fer
Mar 20, 2015
1,177
960
128
26
England
youtube.com
#60
These issues are going to become more and more frequent as more money enters the game- best we figure out solutions that fit everyone the best way possible sooner than later.
There's hundreds of thousands of $ in stream revenue every year now and everyone wants to get the biggest slice of the growing pie possible.
However, the biggest chunks of the pie are taken by the people who put themselves out there and become popular via streaming. The admins who made all the events possible are not public figures or players and hence have 0 share. That's not a healthy balance.
 

UnknownBlack Adder

Well-Known Member
May 18, 2013
730
310
73
Praha, Czech Republic
www.rts-league.org
#61
I enjoy the 180° flip of many on the closed/paid streaming thing :d

Host should be able to do whatever he wants, same as anyone can have an opinion on it. If someone wants to make money (or some other type of profit, like image boost) off of his work and effort, you sure as hell should be expected to pay for it in one way or another - you are, after all, taking money (or other resources) from him.

It's a policy which affects people on their amount of personally success and varies greatly. This is really heartbreaking because I obviously want to cast it, as it's an awesome event. But I'm in a unique situation where I can create content full-time and I take that situation seriously. I can't put my day to day life in jeopardy for a tournament regardless of how exciting it is for me. To work hard for a large subscriber number and then have that number taxed in a sense, is really difficult to swallow.
You pay the most because you would make the most. It's really absolutely simple. Why should you keep the same initial fee as someone who makes nothing? You need to look at it differently - would it be nice if everyone had to pay a set fee of like 500$ without looking at subs (subs are a relatively good way to tell how much money a streamer is making)? Lower for you, yay, impossible for everyone else. Yay...?

Quite frankly I believe this is much more of a drag on the smaller streamers than the big ones, because the big ones actually have that money, and available, whereas the small one has like 10-20 subs if he's lucky, no donations to really speak of, maybe 5-10$ total, few bits, and they would have to pay like a third of the money they made, with a fun part where they don't have all that money, because Twitch sends only after 100$... Only to have little to no chance on any viewers because the bigger streamers will stream at the same time as well. Sure it's just a few bucks for them, but in the context of things it's different ballpark of ROI than big streamers.
 

SloveniaModri

Well Known Pikeman
Aug 10, 2013
165
484
78
#63
I love this capitalist logic: a guy who basically earns 10k a month just from subs shouldn't "have to" make a one-time payment of 1k to be able to stream a huge event for 1+ month for thousands of his viewers who will donate thousands of $ in the meantime because that might put his "day to day life in jeopardy".
Reminds me of multi-million American sport figures explaining they have to "put food on the table" when they pick a 120 million $ contract over a 100 million $ contract. Tragic situation indeed.
 

BulgariaRorarimbo

Known Member
Jan 10, 2016
414
166
58
35
Bulgaria
#65
0.5$ is literally nothing. Memb is charging himself 10$ lol. Without considering the job he has already done and will be doing the next couple of months.
 

ArgentinaNicov

Two handed swordman
Apr 27, 2012
1,258
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Nicov
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#66
I totally agree with this streaming policy and even if I didn't, it's memb the guy who is investing 5k and a lot of time on this tournament hence he has the right to choose whatever is more convenient for him.

Having said this, it will never stop bothering me the fact that this is probably the only game whose big streamers make much more money than the top players (other than viper and maybe daut).
 

United KingdomFall

Halberdier
Jun 12, 2013
1,898
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Fallstar
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#67
Personally I think it's time players agreed to stop doing things "for the community" (translation - for whoever's streaming their gameplay for profit) and started looking out for themselves more. If that involves password locking rooms unless someone puts up money for a showmatch, so be it.
 

ChileBowserlord

Known Member
Jul 18, 2018
73
119
48
#69
Working against each other or for the money is always a regression in human mind, bevaviour and evolution. If today someone thinks competition is a postive factor instead of working together --> fails hard.
Everyone thinks hes alone and has to do his own thing, thats wrong. Get away with this stupid "elbow-thinking".

Some solutions:
- Every Caster, who wants to cast has to put money in the pricepool of the tourney (according to his average viewer number) - so Memb can spend less then 5k -
- Memb invites CoCaster to cast wtih him together on his cannel or WITHOUT him but still on his channel
- ...
 

FranceTriRem

Longswordman
Dec 13, 2015
310
1,075
108
22
France
#70
Personally I think it's time players agreed to stop doing things "for the community" (translation - for whoever's streaming their gameplay for profit) and started looking out for themselves more. If that involves password locking rooms unless someone puts up money for a showmatch, so be it.
I can also stop doing things "for the community" and make organizers and players pay for using WK.
 

GermanyKing_Marv

Longswordman
May 27, 2016
560
595
108
27
Germany
#75
Working against each other or for the money is always a regression in human mind, bevaviour and evolution. If today someone thinks competition is a postive factor instead of working together --> fails hard.
Everyone thinks hes alone and has to do his own thing, thats wrong. Get away with this stupid "elbow-thinking".

Some solutions:
- Every Caster, who wants to cast has to put money in the pricepool of the tourney (according to his average viewer number) - so Memb can spend less then 5k -
- Memb invites CoCaster to cast wtih him together on his cannel or WITHOUT him but still on his channel
- ...

In theory i agree with you but the reality is sadly different. Research show that individualism is getting more and more important to younger people. And you can notice this everywhere. (Living alone, changeing all rules, beeing single, friendship + instead of commiting to something, leaving 20 options open instead of taking one, giving everyone and everything a huge plattform, using individual events to instrumentalize in the media etc.)
 

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