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[KotD2] Official Announcement
- Thread starter MembTV
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nimanoe
- Jun 24, 2015
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- Voobly
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I heard KOTD2 was on the horizon one month ago and I was really excited! KOTD and BoA were fantastic events with KOTD being my favorite 1v1 event ever. That prize pool is fantastic as well and exciting to see MS getting involved in yet another AoE2 event. I think it goes without saying more that this is amazing for Age of Empires fans around the world.
I'm hoping the broadcasting rules can be changed in some way. This is a REALLY tough topic to address and there are a lot of factors, but I really felt like I needed to bring it up. As it stands "streamers must pay a one-time fee of 0.5$ per current subscriber." This is a similar policy to what Escape had which was recently removed. I'm hoping changes will be made in this case too.
With the current broadcast policy I cannot justify casting KOTD2. I don't like to talk about money, it's not something that should get in the way of things. We're here to either watch, play, or broadcast the game we love and benefit the community. But in my case the fee would be far too high for me. It's a policy which affects people on their amount of personally success and varies greatly. This is really heartbreaking because I obviously want to cast it, as it's an awesome event. But I'm in a unique situation where I can create content full-time and I take that situation seriously. I can't put my day to day life in jeopardy for a tournament regardless of how exciting it is for me. To work hard for a large subscriber number and then have that number taxed in a sense, is really difficult to swallow. I've never been a huge fan of closed events or pay to stream events. I feel like this is a slippery slope and I'm hoping that there can be compromises made for KOTD2 that way everyone can benefit.
Please don't confuse my feelings with the broadcasting policy as ill feelings towards KOTD2, Memb, Microsoft, or anyone. It's not like that, I'm just a guy who wants to cast a tournament. In general I do not agree with any pay to stream tournaments and I do not think that this benefits the community.
Whether I participate or not I hope KOTD2 is a successful event. Thanks for organizing this Memb.
I'm hoping the broadcasting rules can be changed in some way. This is a REALLY tough topic to address and there are a lot of factors, but I really felt like I needed to bring it up. As it stands "streamers must pay a one-time fee of 0.5$ per current subscriber." This is a similar policy to what Escape had which was recently removed. I'm hoping changes will be made in this case too.
With the current broadcast policy I cannot justify casting KOTD2. I don't like to talk about money, it's not something that should get in the way of things. We're here to either watch, play, or broadcast the game we love and benefit the community. But in my case the fee would be far too high for me. It's a policy which affects people on their amount of personally success and varies greatly. This is really heartbreaking because I obviously want to cast it, as it's an awesome event. But I'm in a unique situation where I can create content full-time and I take that situation seriously. I can't put my day to day life in jeopardy for a tournament regardless of how exciting it is for me. To work hard for a large subscriber number and then have that number taxed in a sense, is really difficult to swallow. I've never been a huge fan of closed events or pay to stream events. I feel like this is a slippery slope and I'm hoping that there can be compromises made for KOTD2 that way everyone can benefit.
Please don't confuse my feelings with the broadcasting policy as ill feelings towards KOTD2, Memb, Microsoft, or anyone. It's not like that, I'm just a guy who wants to cast a tournament. In general I do not agree with any pay to stream tournaments and I do not think that this benefits the community.
Whether I participate or not I hope KOTD2 is a successful event. Thanks for organizing this Memb.
_MbL_
Viga_TCBIn all seriousness I think its sort of fair what memb is doing here allthough the fee might be too high. I guess he kind of want to prevent a situation where he has organized a tournament and all the big guys comes in and take most of his profit, as we already in some ways notice with the NAC qualifier when nili has 200 viewers in one of the most important matches. It feels like aoe streams is more than a battle for viewers more than anything at this stage and I suppose memb is trying to even it out. I guess the money will go to memb, but maybe it would be better if it went to viewer contest / giveaways / prizepool
King_Marvwhy are you always so negative?
In fact Streaming your rated games is free promotion for you. Ofc its also free content for the streamer so both benefit. If you dont like it just do a password and nobody benefit.
Semi open Streaming and paying for streaming tournaments which other host is not new.
ECL has it
2v2 World Cup has it
There are stream exclusive Show matches ( closed streaming) etc.
Dont see a problem with this here when it was ok before.
In fact Streaming your rated games is free promotion for you. Ofc its also free content for the streamer so both benefit. If you dont like it just do a password and nobody benefit.
Semi open Streaming and paying for streaming tournaments which other host is not new.
ECL has it
2v2 World Cup has it
There are stream exclusive Show matches ( closed streaming) etc.
Dont see a problem with this here when it was ok before.
chrummiThat level of personal investment definitely changes things. I think it would be hard to recover that amount of money even with a lot of new subs, so there's a certain level of risk involved for him. As for his changed opinion on open streaming, I'm guessing the stream numbers that he saw for BoA and particularly the fact that some streamers kind of obfuscated who the sponsors of that event were may have influenced things. If this kind of stuff didn't occur, open streaming would be amazing, but all things considered, I can understand his decision.
- Oct 21, 2013
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Im glad to see you making a serious post after that first one. Viewer contest/giveayways/prizepool are great things but Im sure you agree 10k is pretty good for a 5 week tournament. And we shouldn't forget memb is living from his streaming so if he doesn't make money he won't host more tournaments in the future. Anyway money is always a difficult topic but with recent tournaments in mind I think this regulation is only fair. Think about it this way: memb is putting in 5k which is a lot more than even the biggest other streamers would have to pay to stream everything.
misafeco- Feb 17, 2012
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buhanissonFor others, streaming is semi open, for others it is semi closed. You can never please everyone, but the meaning of professional is not just that the trailer videos are nice and prizepools big: it is also the fact that you actually live off of what you earn and have to think about your income when making the decisions. It is always easy to find discrepancies and/or blame someone for hypocricy when you are in it only for the fun of it, but in the real world things tend to be more complicated.
Guys, people are allowed to change their mind. You are all talking about events from years ago, pre my time even watching streams.
I remember the hype as viewer counts went past 1,000. Now a days we call that a Tuesday.
Back then we had pretty much no AoE full time streamers - Memb and Zero only? Now look how many we have.
Twitch has played a huge part too.
My personal opinion - If you put the effort in to host a tournament you should benefit. It helps the community and you should be rewarded for that. I know people want to go back to the humble days of everyone doing everything for free, but that isn't how you can do your passion for a living.
I feel there needs to be a compromise. I agree with charging a fee in the current climate of the game but maybe there are a few outliers. In my line of work with these sorts of fees there are hard caps. I think this is important long term.
I remember the hype as viewer counts went past 1,000. Now a days we call that a Tuesday.
Back then we had pretty much no AoE full time streamers - Memb and Zero only? Now look how many we have.
Twitch has played a huge part too.
My personal opinion - If you put the effort in to host a tournament you should benefit. It helps the community and you should be rewarded for that. I know people want to go back to the humble days of everyone doing everything for free, but that isn't how you can do your passion for a living.
I feel there needs to be a compromise. I agree with charging a fee in the current climate of the game but maybe there are a few outliers. In my line of work with these sorts of fees there are hard caps. I think this is important long term.
Fall- Jun 12, 2013
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It's a difficult topic. AoE2 is actually the only game I know of where players allow casters to make a decent income off of their ladder games - in others that would be unheard of. Perhaps some casters have become used to this level of generosity? If AoE does become bigger, money does become more of an issue and unfortunately that type of generosity will dissipate.
With Memb putting $5,000 in, I think it's fair that he asks for a fee for those who want to broadcast and make a profit off of his investment.
Aside from that, the settings are great, open signups are great, and the small changes made e.g. 1 auto-found sheep are also great. I love that there is an effort on behalf of streamers and players to get the games casted live and I hope you break viewership records with this event. Say what you will, Memb knows how to hype his events up.
Well done Memb and everyone else involved.
With Memb putting $5,000 in, I think it's fair that he asks for a fee for those who want to broadcast and make a profit off of his investment.
Aside from that, the settings are great, open signups are great, and the small changes made e.g. 1 auto-found sheep are also great. I love that there is an effort on behalf of streamers and players to get the games casted live and I hope you break viewership records with this event. Say what you will, Memb knows how to hype his events up.
Well done Memb and everyone else involved.
Last edited:
Bowserlord
_5_- Oct 21, 2013
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- gmischa
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- RM - 1v1
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- -1
that Nili would spend 20k for NAC2 and then T90 stealing all his viewers & donation income
Likes:
KnightKing
Come on how is there always one troll/***** who makes stupid drama over streaming policy.
It's a security for memb to make sure he doesn't lose money, if you want to throw away 5k @Bowserlord just do it, but don't expect others to do the same.
Nili is collecting money and taking a risk, same as memb, but his risk is "lower" (what a stupid argument 11).
What do you expect memb to do? putting 5k prizepool and not trying to get the money back while streaming the tournament?
If T90, who will most likely get more viewers than memb, wants to stream the event as well he has to contribute, same as any other streamer or youtuber who wants to "profit off membs work" (again a super stupid thing to say).
Don't get me wrong I love T90 and I am subscribed to both Memb and T90, but the organiser of the event should always profit the most from it.
BoA was great for T90 and not that great for Memb and it shouldn't be this way if Memb does all the organisation.
It's the same with NAC1/2 or Hidden Cup or whatever other event.
On top of that it shouldn't be all about only getting the invested money back, I think nili got a decent amount of new viewers via NAC as well as new subs.
Memb want's to grow his numbers with this tournament and they will most likely grow less if T90/Nili streams it as well. So in order to get a compensation they'll have to pay to stream.
I hope they can make an agreement so that T90/Nili will stream the games as well.
It's a security for memb to make sure he doesn't lose money, if you want to throw away 5k @Bowserlord just do it, but don't expect others to do the same.
Nili is collecting money and taking a risk, same as memb, but his risk is "lower" (what a stupid argument 11).
What do you expect memb to do? putting 5k prizepool and not trying to get the money back while streaming the tournament?
If T90, who will most likely get more viewers than memb, wants to stream the event as well he has to contribute, same as any other streamer or youtuber who wants to "profit off membs work" (again a super stupid thing to say).
Don't get me wrong I love T90 and I am subscribed to both Memb and T90, but the organiser of the event should always profit the most from it.
BoA was great for T90 and not that great for Memb and it shouldn't be this way if Memb does all the organisation.
It's the same with NAC1/2 or Hidden Cup or whatever other event.
On top of that it shouldn't be all about only getting the invested money back, I think nili got a decent amount of new viewers via NAC as well as new subs.
Memb want's to grow his numbers with this tournament and they will most likely grow less if T90/Nili streams it as well. So in order to get a compensation they'll have to pay to stream.
I hope they can make an agreement so that T90/Nili will stream the games as well.
- Oct 21, 2013
- 271
- 216
- 48
-
- Voobly
- gmischa
- Ladder
- RM - 1v1
- Rating
- 1834
- Wins
- 619
- Losses
- 610
- Streak
- -1
Dont you agree it is the right of the organiser to who is allowed to stream the event they put a lot of effort in? Now I would like every event to be open but that is ultimately going to hurt the people putting in most time and money and benefit people who do little or nothing. Whether NAC2 is open or closed is completely up to Nili in my opinion. The fact that Nili puts a lot of time and effort in NAC2 is obviously great and Im looking forward to that tournament very much, but it has little to do with this tournament or its streaming policy.
TarsizI don't think you should dismiss it that way, you're not doing anyone a service by calling it "stupid drama". There is an interesting -and hard to answer- question that is asked here with the streaming rules.
Nobody is denying that Memb is taking risks by putting forth the money and that it is totally fair that other streamers wishing to cast the event would contribute as well (given that the price is per subscriber and not fixed, it is arguably more affordable for smaller streamers). The question is whether or not this is the best way of making sure Memb benefits the most from the event (growth wise, money wise, whatever he considers benefitting from the event!).
If you look at the bigger picture, closed streaming means less viewership, and potentially less growth for the competitive scene. It is impossible to measure exactly how it played, but having the fully open streaming policy on KOTD 1 could have led to an increase in overall viewers base which in turn could have motivated Microsoft to invest into the second opus of the tournament. Who knows?
Agree with that part.
Nobody is denying that Memb is taking risks by putting forth the money and that it is totally fair that other streamers wishing to cast the event would contribute as well (given that the price is per subscriber and not fixed, it is arguably more affordable for smaller streamers). The question is whether or not this is the best way of making sure Memb benefits the most from the event (growth wise, money wise, whatever he considers benefitting from the event!).
If you look at the bigger picture, closed streaming means less viewership, and potentially less growth for the competitive scene. It is impossible to measure exactly how it played, but having the fully open streaming policy on KOTD 1 could have led to an increase in overall viewers base which in turn could have motivated Microsoft to invest into the second opus of the tournament. Who knows?
Agree with that part.
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