Is TheViper's dynasty over?

[kalpit00]

0-5 vs Hera in KOTD5 and 0-3 vs Tatoh in Masters of Arena : both a "one-map" type of tourney which are very very different than other tourneys which feature a diverse map-pool

what usually happens in such settings is the order of selection of civs can make a huge difference because its only one map and you cannot really guess what civ your opponent will pick out of their draft so you may run into an unfavorable civ matchup. Ofc you can try and wait till your opponent uses the dangerous civ and choose to use more "flexible" civs early on, but that may result in you dropping a game (first game of the day maybe), then you're forced to use your stronger civ and end up running into the civ you wanted to avoid

Something similar happened to Viper - Tatoh series. The Kotd was quite a stomp, just felt like Viper had a bad day and couldn't even shake the monstrous Hera, who really really outplayed him on a pure skill level (important to note Skill here vs mind games/strategy)

But in the 0-3 vs Tatoh :

1. G1 Viper Ethiopions vs Tatoh Malay -> A civ matchup which probably suits Eth in late game due to Torsion Engine SO, bbc and faster firing arbs. But Viper forgot ballistics (huge mistake) and ended up losing the game even from a winning position. kudos to tatoh, not really "outplayed" TheViper per se but simply played consistent and capitalized on Viper's error
2. G2 Viper Portuguese vs Tatoh Mongols -> again like i mentioned above, a civ matchup viper wanted to 100% avoid because if Mongols get to Mangudais, Portuguese are pretty toast. Now the game played out differently with Viper doing a Daut Castle, then trying to fimp monks to make something happen, but mangudais were already on the field with him losing too many vils, cannot recover and gg. That being said, even if the game played out normally, Portuguese have like a 20% chance to win Mongols in imp imo, with some sort of early imp Arb bbc play
3. G3 Viper Burgundians vs Tatoh Spanish -> Viper being forced to use his "best" civ on Arena but ends up facing Conqs, probably the strongest unit vs the eco focused approach of Burgundians. I gotta give it to Tatoh, he really mind gamed (or just random guessed, we'll never know fs) and hit 2/2 for the civ matchups you'd likely want in that set.
   
   

Now all this being said, I do think Viper wasn't close to his best in his set vs either Tatoh or Hera. Nothing taken from Hera and Tatoh, they both deserved to win. But we have seen a Viper who has won all but 3 AOE LANs featuring the Empire Wars game mode, 3/4 Death Match World Cups, and countless Random Map tournaments on possibly every kind of map settings

Still don't think there's ever been a more complete player than TheViper. His dynasty maybe over. It may not be over. We will never know. But one thing I do know is that he is still a joy to watch, always providing us with the most entertaining games ever! So just be grateful for that and enjoy

 

[The_Philos]

G1 Viper Ethiopions vs Tatoh Malay

It was Eth vs Britons. And not going for Trebs and/or Siege ram felt a bit odd, since he had Tatoh cornered. Tatoh did a fantastic job defending, but Viper's decision making felt off. Watching his latest sets, I can recall many times, where he went for questionable strategies, which is weird to me, since that was something, where Viper had really an edge over his competitors for a long time. Can't really tell, if the others caught up to him or he's currently struggling with his decision making.
Not to take anything away from Tatoh, he played an amazing set, just my thoughts on Viper's most recent performance.

 

[Shakal]

Now all this being said, I do think Viper wasn't close to his best in his set vs either Tatoh or Hera. Nothing taken from Hera and Tatoh, they both deserved to win. But we have seen a Viper who has won all but 3 AOE LANs featuring the Empire Wars game mode, 3/4 Death Match World Cups, and countless Random Map tournaments on possibly every kind of map settings

Still don't think there's ever been a more complete player than TheViper.

This is just funny at this point

 

[The Pigdog]

Surprised nobody is mentioning Pablito’s Invitational. Absolutely dominant stuff and the best Age we’ve seen anyone produce since T90 Titans League in January. (I’d personally also say the most important tourney since TTL for gauging people’s respective levels).

 

[wtyd]

0-5 vs Hera in KOTD5 and 0-3 vs Tatoh in Masters of Arena : both a "one-map" type of tourney which are very very different than other tourneys which feature a diverse map-pool
...
Still don't think there's ever been a more complete player than TheViper. His dynasty maybe over. It may not be over. We will never know. But one thing I do know is that he is still a joy to watch, always providing us with the most entertaining games ever! So just be grateful for that and enjoy

What about now? Total and brutal domination of TaToH over Viper in Warlords 2.

 

[Vossn]

Hmm, It's TaToh, he's a fantastic player, and one whom I think usually performs better when up against his teammates. (compared to DauT for example, whom I'd argue performs better when up against others.)

Viper also isn't at his peak anymore (he has competition). But he's still definitely competitive. (I must say that in some games him not being at his peak anymore was noticeable, but considering what happened to his wrist and all that, I think it's already a big one that he's still keeping up.)

And whilst I don't dislike Memb, I wouldn't call a 4-2 "total and brutal domination"...

 

[Tuunbaq]

AoE2's dynasty is over.

 

[Freezing_Point]

Hmm, It's TaToh, he's a fantastic player, and one whom I think usually performs better when up against his teammates. (compared to DauT for example, whom I'd argue performs better when up against others.)

Funnily enough, Viper is 0-3 in sets vs. Daut this year.

 

[Lokalo]

Viper also isn't at his peak anymore (he has competition). But he's still definitely competitive. (I must say that in some games him not being at his peak anymore was noticeable, but considering what happened to his wrist and all that, I think it's already a big one that he's still keeping up.)

Hera apart losing few times to Yo felt quite dominant and Viper seemed the only one being able to put equal fight just a month or two ago. And level of aoe2 is highest than it ever was, so it has not much to do with Viper being not in shape or something. Sure, you always can think "what if" he didn't stop playing aoe2 for half of year and played aoe4, what if he had healthy wrist and so on. But in my opinion people are just much better nowadays at everything you he just can't simply boom and win games with few better decisions. From watching his games lately, I would say he usually win still when he plays aggro, but booming games nowadays he gets punished quite often. And I guess makes sense, there are many fast and quite rounded players nowadays, you can't win games anymore just because you have 100apm and good macro. Viper just dies very often nowadays being greedy, while few years ago he could get away with that which often leads to games where either he loses in a titanic way or looks like he is way better than opponent, his playstyle just doesn't seem that consistent because of level of greediness.

It reminds me a lil bit Hera vs Yo playing two very similar games Koreans vs Spanish on Nomad. Where Yo attacking with conqs and mangos and Hera just trying to move eco whole game. Well he knows better, though in my opinion some Korean towers perhaps could work and defend more especially that he anyways does bodkin for skirms compared to 1 castle. Anyway, point is, that even if you are faster and perhaps better player, being full defensive in some cases just doesn't work even if he did good job spreading eco. Viper almost always has better eco upgrades and more vills than opponents, but nowadays it less and less often means he wins a game in the end. I think nowadays it's harder for people like Villese who usually tries to play meta game(and during last RBW times he seemed getting close to top4 guys, though if I'm correct he started to study, that might be bigger factor) and for those like Tatoh and Daut it's good times as you never know what to expect, they can be full in, they can be aggro with good macro at home, can be just full booming. I mean at high level they kind of all can do it, but few players are constantly doing different stuff and feel comfortable at it while some of them most of the time play at one same style unless are already losing/forced to.

 

[8th wonder]

I heard the rumors that Viper will be sponsored by Tide