Is TheViper's dynasty over?

[SuperskinnyBLS]

Death match has existed since forever

Oh yes, if you do not like just the dark age, go play on fast speed, start in post imp with Michi resources and with an explored map ( ͡°( ͡° ͜ʖ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)ʖ ͡°) ͡°)

 

[ltm]

Viper just losing on purpose again so his Red Bull win will be more epic.

The snake is always playing the long game.

 

[Progeusz]

Viper just losing on purpose again so his Red Bull win will be more epic.

The snake is always playing the long game.

How fitting that TaToH's match-point curse happened to end specifically on Viper, widely regarded as the best player, right? That sure must be a big confidence boost.
And it just so happened that Viper didn't prepare for the tournament at all, to the point where he didn't even know how maps work. Lucky coincidence ^__^

 

[TwilliverOngenbone]

I find it so weird whenever people try to disregard EW.

When Daut won Red Bull 3, it felt like one the greatest moments in Aoe2 history. I actually feel sorry for people who didn’t enjoy that, do they even have a soul?

I mean, Daut winning that tournament was also one of the greatest days of my life. Does that stop EW from being a crap game mode in any way? Of course not.

 

[akku]

How fitting that TaToH's match-point curse happened to end specifically on Viper, widely regarded as the best player, right? That sure must be a big confidence boost.
And it just so happened that Viper didn't prepare for the tournament at all, to the point where he didn't even know how maps work. Lucky coincidence ^__^

Nah, Totoh's match point curse still prevails. Cause he won it 3-1, it didn't go to a match point.

If it had been a 2-2, Tatoh would've lost it 2-3 lol

 

[Progeusz]

Nah, Totoh's match point curse still prevails. Cause he won it 3-1, it didn't go to a match point.

If it had been a 2-2, Tatoh would've lost it 2-3 lol

That was a match point. Match point game is any game where you can win the set. If players are 3-1 in Bo7, one player has three match points - at 3-1 into 4-1 win but also potential two more at 3-2 and 3-3).
What you're talking about is not a match point. You are talking about a decider. Deciders are when both players have even score and next game decides the set for sure. That's NOT what "TaToH's curse" is about.

I think the first person who documented it was a guy in this thread? https://old.reddit.com/r/aoe2/comments/snkvli/tatoh_became_the_best_player_in_the_world_a_year/
notice how some of the matches have 2 match points or even 3.

 

[Salawen]

if i had one million dollar i wood give it to viper becos i like him

 

[Chanson]

That was a match point. Match point game is any game where you can win the set. If players are 3-1 in Bo7, one player has three match points - at 3-1 into 4-1 win but also potential two more at 3-2 and 3-3).
What you're talking about is not a match point. You are talking about a decider. Deciders are when both players have even score and next game decides the set for sure. That's NOT what "TaToH's curse" is about.

I think the first person who documented it was a guy in this thread? https://old.reddit.com/r/aoe2/comments/snkvli/tatoh_became_the_best_player_in_the_world_a_year/
notice how some of the matches have 2 match points or even 3.
View attachment 202285

Edited: You are right, but that post is strictly about a small group of players, whereas there is also a perceived decider game curse against other players. In retrospect, I’m not sure why losing consistently to four or five players is really all that shocking and the matchpoint curse is coincidental to that considering how tiny the sample is (e.g. the fact that 2/15 of the data on matchpoints against top players comes from a single best of three).

 

[Progeusz]

whereas there is also a perceived decider game curse against other players

Never heard about TaToH struggling in deciders against players outside of the very top. Are you sure about this? Please provide data which confirms that.

I’m not sure why losing consistently to four or five players is really all that shocking

You completely missed the point. I feel like you didn't even read the post I linked.
It was never about simply losing. It was about WINNING vs very top players in non-matchpoint games BUT consistently losing 0 to 14 in matchpoint games (i think it was extended to higher value since that post was made). 0-14 isn't something normal.

 

[Chanson]

Never heard about TaToH struggling in deciders against players outside of the very top. Are you sure about this? Please provide data which confirms that.


You completely missed the point. I feel like you didn't even read the post I linked.
It was never about simply losing. It was about WINNING vs very top players in non-matchpoint games BUT consistently losing 0 to 14 in matchpoint games (i think it was extended to higher value since that post was made). 0-14 isn't something normal.

As for the first part, I said “perceived“ for a reason, I don’t think it is a fact.

I indeed read it again (I read it when it was initially posted and misremembered that it was about deciders rather than matchpoints as you correctly said until I did read it again). However, the analysis relies too heavily on an extremely small amount of data and fairly arbitrary constraints. Notably, there is no comparison in the analysis to other players or TaToH’s results against all players to suggest that it is abnormal for him in particular to lose matchpoints against the top 4 players. I’m also skeptical that matchpoint games are meaningfully different from other games except for the purposes of observing an intuitively unlikely result.

We could do an equally weak analysis to say that TaToH overperforms in game 1 of any given series, meaning that he is more likely to set up matchpoints (indeed this automatically creates two matchpoints in a three game series), which we would in turn expect him to lose against a better player, aiding this phenomenon.

 

[Potkeny]

I’m also skeptical that matchpoint games are meaningfully different from other games except for the purposes of observing an intuitively unlikely result.

Depending on exact tournament-rules, those games might be on the opponents' homemap, which makes the whole thing even more complicated and would need even bigger sample imo.

(The 2 "matchpoints" of a bo3 after winning game 1 are not the same, losing on your homemmap is different than on your opponent's.)

 

[FireBall37]

Yes his dynasty is over, by definition of the word dynasty. As soon as he stopped winning everything, that was the end

 

[SuperskinnyBLS]

Yes his dynasty is over, by definition of the word dynasty. As soon as he stopped winning everything, that was the end

That came out of nowhere Xd

 

[Mouttie]

That came out of nowhere Xd

I was concerned I missed a showmatch/tournament....for a sec.

 

[FireBall37]

That came out of nowhere Xd

well no one else was saying it

 

[oozkan]

Yes his dynasty is over, by definition of the word dynasty. As soon as he stopped winning everything, that was the end

Well Habsburg's lost a lot of battles and wars along the course...

Btw does anyone know when Viper will have something like Habsburg jaw.? May be being bald?

 

[Potkeny]

Btw does anyone know when Viper will have something like Habsburg jaw.? May be being bald?

Viper Wrist :P

 

[Alfred_The_Average]

Possibly

 

[ramzes2000]

Possibly

no. AOE4 red bull award better

 

[Cocaineallday]

Lol

 

[oozkan]

I don't know what to say, dynasty manager seems banned, this thread is orphan now.

Dark times ahead, dark times.

 

[HelloWorld]

I don't know what to say, dynasty manager seems banned, this thread is orphan now.

Dark times ahead, dark times.

It's great that he is banned, he was saying a lot of controversial things.

 

[Freezing_Point]

It's great that he is banned, he was saying a lot of controversial things.

This thread is a case in point. If he'd made it after the first Red Bull Wololo, that'd be one thing. But no, this was premised on that eParadise invitational proving Hera was definitively superior to Viper, and who even remembers that?

 

[Bandana]

You kids take this all way to serious

 

[malamadre]

I think Vipers dinasty is oficially over. He just posted on twitter he felt shaky. You cant have a dinasty, lose in quarter finals and feel shaky playing some kid.