AOE-II DE Is the hype dead?

[YodaIamm]

are you kidding? for me thats not good numbers, at all. i only feel bad for EGCTV, he must put a lot of money in a bad game. if he put that money in age 2, another would be the story.

Well aoe4 (~1.5k) is average approximately half of aoe2 viewership (~3k)

if you consider aoe4 to be dead then same case can be made for aoe2

 

[LeoMontero]

Well aoe4 (~1.5k) is average approximately half of aoe2 viewership (~3k)

if you consider aoe4 to be dead then same case can be made for aoe2

im reading wrong or in 05/2023 aoe4 has 8++ average and aoe2 has 3.1?? its more like 4x more.

 

[eberlazting]

Watching S-tier tourneys has become less and less attractive for me since it's quite predictable who is going to dominate and most tournaments follow the same format. I would love to see more LANs even if they are local or small or full of nobodies, watching the same interviews and players behind a cam gets a little stagnant and soulless.

However, there are more players now and I can see a trend on social media where aoe2 grabs important attention so I'm happy for that.

 

[Hunyadi_]

Generally I'd say it's fine but maybe the excitement has slowed down a bit.

 

[Snippy]

One year or more later: Both Viper and T90 feel non-existent as streamers. How can they be satisfied with that? Do the facebook-deal really pay off? Does anyone know details?

I feel like you are very hung up about the twitch streaming platform.

While T90 and Viper has been on FB, their Youtube channels has been doing incredibly well. The grand final of TTL has 230k views on T90s YT channel alone...

Should we not count these views as well when discussing growth? Or do we only count live viewers?

 

[sheeesh]

the hype is not dead, is normal. We are after a peak era so it is quite normal to feel a little empty but I would consider it more of a cooldown than a death.

 

[Paint]

Just to be clear death of hype does not mean death of game but more of a return to "normal". Age2 is obviously still a very popular game and will be for a very long time. We outlived WC3 and SC2 for a reason.

 

[Zbyszek]

If you look at the steamcharts of HD then you can quite clearly see that the player number increased in winter holyday season by at least 50% until 2019. new releases (red lines)dont have anywhere close to that effect.

Meanwhile in DE we dont have many non-covid winters to compare but 22/23 had a noticable increase while 21/22 clearly didnt so I dont know what your data shows @robo I find the assumption that its down to penalties not too far fetched.

 

[Crawsack]

Hype is a very nebulous term that is completely subjective. I think the game overall is in a great place, there are a ton of people watching and playing.

However, I think the reason it might seem like there's less hype is because it's usually fairly clear who will win the S-tier tournaments, there aren't commonly massive upsets or surprises. We've got a core group of top 20 players who've stayed there for a good amount of time.

I think T90 and TheViper not being on Twitch hurts the community as a whole, I'm never gonna watch them on FB to be honest (I don't begrudge them for making the move, that's their call). However I watch plenty of their content on Youtube, and overall the amount of S-Tier tournaments is at a very high level.

Part of it is, if you were around in 2015-16 and in the past few years saw the pro scene and prizepools grow massively, and new tournaments series begun that never existed before (KoTD, MoA, NAC, TTL, BoA), it's kind of plateaued now, and that can seem like it's shrinking or about to. I don't see that as the case, it's just that a lot of stuff has stayed the same.

And yeah, this forum unfortunately continues to be a cesspool of negativity frankly. I don't think you have to love everything about AoE2, but I feel like this forum is sometimes a support group for people who were the big fish in a little pond, and they don't like that it's not small pond any more.

 

[OGN]

AoE 2 and its community is surely in an acceptable condition considering the numbers...

What would happen if the game was properly maintained, that's another question...

Or if Aoe4 was never released... Anyway, too many unanswered questions, let's move on

 

[LowEloNobody]

S

Just to be clear death of hype does not mean death of game but more of a return to "normal". Age2 is obviously still a very popular game and will be for a very long time. We outlived WC3 and SC2 for a reason.

SC2 is still quite a bit larger than AoE2 in terms of players and the Esports scene. Definitely in a decline, but still has two major tours, millions in prizepool, multiple LANs, etc.

 

[FolderOfDoom]

NAC4 also got good viewership. Superior viewership compared to NAC3.


So, I'd say that aoe2 is at least maintaining the interest, even if not growing.
I would argue that the interest slightly grew even, because the viewers lost through T90 and Viper moving, were replaced with new viewers

As NAC3 had a 25k peak vs NAC4s 43k i would say it didnt only do good but damn well ^^
A more than solide 70+% increase.

HC3 to 4 was "only" 30%, and that with Corona hight. Tho ofc the total numbers were far bigger.
On the other hand HC just always had a massive popularity lead over NAC.

RBW maintained the numbers from 5 to 6 despite end of Corona and tbh clashings/problems between manageing 3 AoE games and many salty people.

Would be interessting to see how KotD5 does/did vs 4 (tho Memb events seem to never have viewer numbers in Liqui to compare) as well as a new Hidden Cup, just to have the 3 "big" 1v1 events in their post covid iteration.

 

[archxeon]

Or if Aoe4 was never released... Anyway, too many unanswered questions, let's move on

Yea as much as people feared AoE4 would kill AoE2, I think it did the opposite. Brought money and people's eyes towards all of Age of Empires and then the superior game thrived.

 

[Paint]

S

SC2 is still quite a bit larger than AoE2 in terms of players and the Esports scene. Definitely in a decline, but still has two major tours, millions in prizepool, multiple LANs, etc.

and they stopped active development of any new content.

 

[LeoMontero]

S

SC2 is still quite a bit larger than AoE2 in terms of players and the Esports scene. Definitely in a decline, but still has two major tours, millions in prizepool, multiple LANs, etc.

if you look in Liquipedia, SC2 is not better in prize pool than AOE2. i would say that only in the majors because they are sponsored by those leagues. and also the other day were casting SC2 LAN and KotD at the same time, and SC2 has a few more viwers. but SC2 was the final day.
I tell you, today, SC2 has no better viewer numbers than AGE 2 in twitch at least in western hemisphere. dont know if we can see the korean streamers. and also has no better prizepools. only in the 2 majors.
and i would love to see how many people play SC2.

 

[Giuseppe551]

if you look in Liquipedia, SC2 is not better in prize pool than AOE2.

https://www.esportsearnings.com/history/2022/games

Liquipedia isn't the best place to look for future events...it's missing a $400k tournament this summer for example.

and i would love to see how many people play SC2.

I don't know if they even publish that, but I find games in 10 seconds. It's still a much bigger player base than aoe2 even in a declining state.

But you're right about viewers, aoe2 generally has more for big events. Simply easier to understand/follow for the average person. But it's really not a competition. They're the two best RTS of all time.

 

[akku]

not as dead as we might think

AOE 4

Age of Empires IV - Twitch Statistics and Charts

Age of Empires IV detailed historic statistics

twitchtracker.com

View attachment 204903


AOE 2

Age of Empires II - Twitch Statistics and Charts

Age of Empires II detailed historic statistics

twitchtracker.com

View attachment 204904

Thanks for the data. Quite honestly, seems like those massive peaks are just big variety playing it once a while.

Back to real topic, to measure hype, I think most important factors are not user numbers play the game, intangible factors like sponsor interest are also important.

When I go back, biggest problem there seems like NAC especially compared to AOE4 event, but it might have a personal factor caused by Nili so it is hard to reach a conclusion.

Better to ask tournament organizers, if they receive any sponsoring offer other than MS sponsored tournaments, how are donations of regular users compared to previous years.

We need this data to understand if hype is there or not.

I think viewer donations substantially increased NAC4 prize pool.

Viewer donations are also gonna provide a substantial boost to kotd I think.

 

[akku]

S

SC2 is still quite a bit larger than AoE2 in terms of players and the Esports scene. Definitely in a decline, but still has two major tours, millions in prizepool, multiple LANs, etc.

How does viewership compare? Do you have any data on that?

Same for player base? What are the numbers?

As NAC3 had a 25k peak vs NAC4s 43k i would say it didnt only do good but damn well ^^
A more than solide 70+% increase.

HC3 to 4 was "only" 30%, and that with Corona hight. Tho ofc the total numbers were far bigger.
On the other hand HC just always had a massive popularity lead over NAC.

RBW maintained the numbers from 5 to 6 despite end of Corona and tbh clashings/problems between manageing 3 AoE games and many salty people.

Would be interessting to see how KotD5 does/did vs 4 (tho Memb events seem to never have viewer numbers in Liqui to compare) as well as a new Hidden Cup, just to have the 3 "big" 1v1 events in their post covid iteration.

Yeah. I think aoe2 is in a much better position now compared to an year ago when there was legitimate threat from aoe4. And a slightly better position now compared to 2020/21, the supposed peak.

The reason I say current >= 2020/21 is because, in spite of factors that would've otherwise reduced the viewership if things remained same, aoe2 is still maintaining or increasing viewership.

The fact that aoe2 in RBW6 had comparable viewership to RBW5, in spite of:
- no Corona
- no Viper/t90 in twitch
- relatively bad timeslot (cause they wanted to give that to aoe4) and lesser games to build up hype
......Is nothing short of incredible. If these factors were to equated for, I don't think it's a reach to assume aoe2 would've hit 100K live viewers peak in RBW6.


This, plus NAC4 having much better viewership than NAC3, suggests Aoe2 right now is living in its peak, the best time it ever has.
The competition at the top also has never been closer, with new rising players such as Vinch, Sitaux, Valas etc. Look at the competition in KOTD, we got Yo/Daut in freaking R16 and that series had quality that looks like it very well could've been a semis.

 

[akku]

I don’t know why some people keep trying to show arguments or data when is clear that even with it, people that is negative will never change their opinions no matter how much facts you show, honestly is perfect example why aoezone has lost interest to many, super negative in 95% of the threads.

This thread is literally having people overwhelmingly disagreeing with his post and providing counter arguments and data suggesting why it's the case otherwise.......

 

[Jarvin]

However, I think the reason it might seem like there's less hype is because it's usually fairly clear who will win the S-tier tournaments, there aren't commonly massive upsets or surprises. We've got a core group of top 20 players who've stayed there for a good amount of time.

...huh?
As opposed to the 'old good days' when that wasn't the case? like the pre-HC4 days where it totally wasn't predictable who'd win the next big tournament?

Over the past year, out of 8 S-tier non-DM 1v1 tournaments we've had 5 different winners... but it's easy to predict who will win?
How about you give us your predictions for the next 3-4 tournaments so we verify that claim?


As for "core top 20 players".. I'm sure Hearttt was on your top 15 list a year ago.
Valas, repard, FreakinAndy, Sebastian, KingstoNe are obviously other clear top 15/20 candidates that have been there for years.

I am sorry but I am genuinely considering that I'm maybe falling prey to a deliberate bait, because I just don't know how you can make the arguments you make in your post in good faith.
AoE2's pro scene is objectively about as far from being stale as it gets. To a point where I'd argue that's what hurts its popularity(as paradoxical as that might sound)

I think the game is in a great state though overall, and you gotta be in a really weird mindset to justify doom posting about it.
As far as 'hype' goes (which can be expressed in us not quite getting the old HC numbers anywhere anymore), I think that can happen even without anyone doing anything 'wrong' and is to a degree very much normal. T90/Viper moving to Facebook had considerable impact on the "public interest" in the game, and I do feel like the pro scene becoming healthier paradoxically removed from its hype, but I'm not going to fault anyone for it, nor do I think we should stick to a mentality that if the viewerships and prizepools of tournaments don't keep growing then that means the game is dying or whatever.
Things aren't perfect, but they are very much fine, and for that I am very happy

 

[Davion]

How about you give us your predictions for the next 3-4 tournaments so we verify that claim?

snek, snek, viper and prolly snek

 

[archxeon]

Thanks for the data. Quite honestly, seems like those massive peaks are just big variety playing it once a while.

I think viewer donations substantially increased NAC4 prize pool.

Viewer donations are also gonna provide a substantial boost to kotd I think.

I don't think much will be added to KOTD prizepool at least not substantially. The reason is probably because of the marketing. I'd love to be wrong by the way.
I think the way the prizepool increases in KOTD5 (as far as I understand) is if Memb hits milestone subscriber count (I think 5k and 7.5k). Not sure the exact amount. Also, there was a talk of adding more if the 10k admin expenses are met. All this is very commendable from Memb to give to players if he covers his expenses/or makes more than what his minimum expectation but I feel in these kind of things marketing matters.
People are more likey to donate when they see the amount for the prizepool is actively increasing even if only 10% of it goes to the prizepool. Memb would probably have collected more to the expenses this way. Its weird internet/donation psychology and I maybe wrong but it has worked out for previous editions of NAC and HC in the past.

 

[Crawsack]

...huh?
As opposed to the 'old good days' when that wasn't the case? like the pre-HC4 days where it totally wasn't predictable who'd win the next big tournament?

Over the past year, out of 8 S-tier non-DM 1v1 tournaments we've had 5 different winners... but it's easy to predict who will win?
How about you give us your predictions for the next 3-4 tournaments so we verify that claim?


As for "core top 20 players".. I'm sure Hearttt was on your top 15 list a year ago.
Valas, repard, FreakinAndy, Sebastian, KingstoNe are obviously other clear top 15/20 candidates that have been there for years.

I am sorry but I am genuinely considering that I'm maybe falling prey to a deliberate bait, because I just don't know how you can make the arguments you make in your post in good faith.
AoE2's pro scene is objectively about as far from being stale as it gets. To a point where I'd argue that's what hurts its popularity(as paradoxical as that might sound)

I think the game is in a great state though overall, and you gotta be in a really weird mindset to justify doom posting about it.
As far as 'hype' goes (which can be expressed in us not quite getting the old HC numbers anywhere anymore), I think that can happen even without anyone doing anything 'wrong' and is to a degree very much normal. T90/Viper moving to Facebook had considerable impact on the "public interest" in the game, and I do feel like the pro scene becoming healthier paradoxically removed from its hype, but I'm not going to fault anyone for it, nor do I think we should stick to a mentality that if the viewerships and prizepools of tournaments don't keep growing then that means the game is dying or whatever.
Things aren't perfect, but they are very much fine, and for that I am very happy

I'm definitely not doom posting! I agree that the game is in a great place- I don't think the "hype" is actually dead. I was just trying to come up with possible reasons why someone might think that. It's not an opinion I share. There's definitely lots of new growth, new top players, etc. that is cool to see.

 

[AttilaTheHun]

An Interview w/ Forgotten Empires, Return of Rome DLC and more | Kings & Plebeians: Episode #24

0:00 Introduction1:10 Sam, Narrative and Level Design Lead3:05 Alex, Art director7:15 The Story of Forgotten Empires15:50 Why does AoE 2 still look good?20:0...

youtu.be

It is only about 2-3 months ago when AoE2 hit the highest amount of players. Which is due to the xbox releasee to be fair. So AoE2 is still alive and kicking. The game is not just about # of ranked games or # of viewers. That would exclude a big portion of the player base.

 

[SquattingSlav]

It is not about Twitch viewers, it is about Youtube viewers. T90 has a few 100 on FB but has 10000s on youtube. that is where the viewers are, not on live viewing ...