Ideas to nerf towers

New Zealandgreen eggs

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Jul 28, 2017
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#1
Hey everyone. This topic gets raised all the time, but I thought it might be interesting/useful to have a thread dedicated to practical ideas for nerfing/rebalancing towers. Would be cool to hear what people have thought of!

I'll start things off: lower the base attack of watch towers and increase their garrison capacity (maybe to 8 or even 10). This ensures that defensive towers will almost always be stronger than offensive towers (because of the greater availability of villagers to garrison). For a trushing player to offset the defender's advantage they would need to bring more villagers forward, increasing the economic cost (and therefore the risk) of trushing. (This might mean that the Teuton tower bonus needs to be rejigged a bit.)
 

Unknownasdfasdfasdf1

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Jul 13, 2017
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#4
perhaps a bit of a radical solution, but what if towers are only able to fire arrows when villagers/archers are garrisoned inside (until the guard tower research is completed)? The tower cost could be returned to original cost.

This is one of the only changes that IMO really impact the agressor way more than the defender. In rare cases [email protected] tower would still be very viable, but towers hurt much less long term. Sneaky towers with 1 vil behind woodlines require a permanent villager/archer inside them to do damage, whereas a defensive tower on an exposed gold mine still does a fine job at doing what towers should do: defend areas.
 

United KingdomFall

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#5
Let's looks at the win rate of the strategy in high level play before suggesting something needs nerfing.

Atm, aggressive tower play in the 1st round of KOTD2 has an awful win rate and is the worst opening you can pick - this is probably biased by weaker players choosing it against stronger seeds, but it will be interesting to see the win rates in the QFs and onwards.
 
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United StatesInfluenza

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#7
Let's looks at the win rate of the strategy in high level play before suggesting something needs nerfing.

Atm, aggressive tower play in the 1st round of KOTD2 has an awful win rate and is the worst opening you can pick - this is probably biased by weaker players choosing it against stronger seeds, but it will be interesting to see the win rates in the QFs and onwards.
The only counter to tower rush is making your own towers so towers win no matter what
 

ChilewAkKo

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#8
Some ideas:

- reduce attack / range in feudal
- make them cost stone + some gold.
- reduce HP in feudal.
- increase building time / increase repairing time.
- reduce the amount of arrows thrown when vills or range units are garrisoned.
-reduce the fire speed / rate

I’m a tower hater btw
 
Last edited:
Nov 5, 2018
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#9
  1. Make tower repair slow
    • The attacker shouldn't just repair tower with 1 vill blocked off by palisade wall and still get away with it.
    • The defender has the advantage of more vills at home so can repair tower faster with more vills working at it
  2. Nerf civs which can build towers very fast, for example, Spanish and Koreans (I think this has been nerfed to an extend).
  3. Koreans shouldn't get tower upgrades free.
    • At least a university needs to be built
    • or if their towers are still OP, make them upgrade with discount cost
  4. Players should just learn to deal with tower rush.
    • It is a fairly risky strat since it is easy to predict if someone will go tower rush
    • Defensive man-at-arms are fairly good at preventing creeping tower rush
 

SpainElChache

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#10
Another post with same topic about towers? I hate towers because I don't know how to deal with them but imo they are perfectly balanced now. A best solution I think is to add a category on voobly (like whatch list but maybe with another name like guys without honor) where you can add players that makes towers and avoid playing against those bastards
 

New Zealandgreen eggs

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#11
Let's looks at the win rate of the strategy in high level play before suggesting something needs nerfing.

Atm, aggressive tower play in the 1st round of KOTD2 has an awful win rate and is the worst opening you can pick - this is probably biased by weaker players choosing it against stronger seeds, but it will be interesting to see the win rates in the QFs and onwards.
I agree to an extent. The problem is those statistics aren't very robust. There is also the more basic issue that so far over 60% of BoA2 games have featured trushing and still more have had aggressive towers of some kind. For a large number of players and spectators towers are so ubiquitous that they're starting to ruin the spectacle.

Normally I am on the side of letting the meta work itself out, but I think it's been clear for a while now that towers are a genuine balance problem and have been since men at arms were buffed.
 

Germanykc_Ereon

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May 20, 2013
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#12
Increase the cost of towers depending on the distance from your starting TC (similar to gold income from Trade Carts and Market distance). Is this actually possible to implement? And I have no idea how this would work on no TC maps.
Then again, I dont care too much about the tower nerf discussion or anything :P
 
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#13
I dont think towers are the real issue as Nili explained extensively aswell on one of his streams. I agree with him that the ability to quick wall easily with palissade gates makes the trush so much stronger and makes it easier to keep towers alive or to wall of units from further away.

Maybe an option to nerf gates is to make it possible to walk over them until they are 100% (or 50% or whatever) built? The same could go for palissades.

This would make it easier to take out towers with villagers or military units thus stopping a trush in its tracks.
 

SpainMembTV

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#14
Towers is a real problem you basically never see archers opening anymore, scouts war or whatever, is 90% [email protected] and towers and the results is really bad, gg or full walled abd fight with towers till go castle. Akways exception but not much So if we make kotd3 and there is no balance before it, we will have to do something about it.
 

SpainElChache

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#15
Towers is a real problem you basically never see archers opening anymore, scouts war or whatever, is 90% [email protected] and towers and the results is really bad, gg or full walled abd fight with towers till go castle. Akways exception but not much So if we make kotd3 and there is no balance before it, we will have to do something about it.
Well, being honest here, that is true because the map for kotd2 is super open and specially vulnerable to a tower rush, just add a little bit more wood to the next map and you won't see trush. Archers still dominate feudal age, I prefer to whatch maa opening instead of archers as well as you can see more variety in the game and prevents passive playstile. The problem is in a map with just one woodline, tower rush becomes devastating.
 

Finlandbuhanisson

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#16
Also, balance doesnt have to be all about the winrate and only the winrate. If there was a button that you could use in the beginning of the game to randomly destroy one players TC, yours or opponents, that strategy would have perfectly balanced winrate of exactly 50% but people would still hate it and wish it patched asap.

And this is not such a far-fetched example: some real strategies may be somewhat analoguous, making the game more repetitive, luck-based or otherwise not as fun for the better player. Whether trush is such a strategy, I dont know.
 
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FranceSylve

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#17
Actually it may be better to nerf the nerf. Five years later, ppl still not happy
 

New Zealandgreen eggs

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#19
I dont think towers are the real issue as Nili explained extensively aswell on one of his streams. I agree with him that the ability to quick wall easily with palissade gates makes the trush so much stronger and makes it easier to keep towers alive or to wall of units from further away.
I'd argue that the issue can be traced back to the men at arms buff. Either way you're confusing the original cause of the issue with the issue itself. The issue isn't gates, it's towers, so unless you're advocating removing palisade gates as well (which I wouldn't support) then it makes more sense to address towers directly.

if we make kotd3 and there is no balance before it, we will have to do something about it.
Thanks Memb – that's really good to know!

Also, balance doesnt have to be all about the winrate and only the winrate. If there was a button that you could use in the beginning of the game to randomly destroy one players TC, yours or opponents, that strategy would have perfectly balanced winrate of exactly 50% but people would still hate it and wish it patched asap.
This is actually a great example 11
 

Irelanddooog

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#20
I don't care what the stats are, it's happening wayyy too often. Riut vs Vivi is the prime example, 2 players with roughly equal skill, trush won out every time. Was such a disappointing series, vivi played it brilliant and the way he should have, but it's not a good state for the game. Similar situation with Yo vs slam.
Then you have viper vs Accm, which will slightly skew the stats back in favour of saying towers aren't so effective... but it's Viper, he's not a fan of trush and he's capable of making top quality players look ordinary.
 

India_CsK_Bluewolf

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#21
I dont understand many people's comment on tower games are boring. I think its upto playstyle of player. If you nerf tower then you will end up seeing Arena walls on Arabia with 30+ archers camping at their base for ever. And we know both players wont engage even until imperial age in some cases. This is gonna be much more boring atleast for me. I prefer seeing drama at 10min mark rather than 27min mark of the game. Game is going to be interesting only based on the player play style rather than strats they gonna use. We can't blame them as they need to be really careful on such big tournament. You can't expect Viper style fantasy play on a such big tournament. It's my opinion n most of comment looks like spil out of their own irritation towards tower.
 

UnknownFunito

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#22
AoC is at his best and one of the main reasons is tower's warfare. They are a "unit" that demand a lot of creativity and skill and they make crazy games. Recs among top players were extremely boring some years ago and now are extremely fun. And probably are way more fun to play. I only can think of people that sux against towers complain about them.
Maybe nerf gates, but towers are great.
 
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#25
I'd argue that the issue can be traced back to the men at arms buff. Either way you're confusing the original cause of the issue with the issue itself. The issue isn't gates, it's towers, so unless you're advocating removing palisade gates as well (which I wouldn't support) then it makes more sense to address towers directly.
No, what I mean is that within a trush I don't think towers are the main issue but the ability to wall the towers in easily makes a trush much harder to defend.
 

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