I feel like too many civs get BLOODLINES since The Forgotten expansion (2013) and beyond

[lecracheursagacite]

incorrect, knights and xbows were always the best combination of units in open map TG. The main reason UU builds are harder to pull off is due to walls being nerfed so xbows can bust in more easily as well as people picking civs in every single game. Not to mention the increased micro potential for xbows due to lack of latency.

All if takes is a few games on maps outside of TG arabia and you will find out that many UUs are extremely oppressive... In fact, I would say random civ 4v4 nomad in 2021 is based mostly around which team has more terribly broken UUs.

I want to see your ranking of broken UUs.

Lmao I had the same feeling for Crop Rotation. In the Conquerors, 8/18 (44%) civs had Crop Rotation. Now, 26/39 (66%) civs have Crop Rotation. Not like that technology really affects gameplay, but still, the new civ designer have some kind of weird fetish with it.

I believe I have found the explanation for this:

Farmers in the region of Waasland (in present-day northern Belgium) pioneered a four-field rotation in the early 16th century

 

[Helichaos]

In fact, I would say random civ 4v4 nomad in 2021 is based mostly around which team has more terribly broken UUs.

The feeling when you random Spanish, Koreans or Burmese tho... Kreygasm

 

[HongeyKong]

The feeling when you random Spanish, Koreans or Burmese tho... Kreygasm

Speed of a knight, range attack of a xbow. Knight / xbow meta confirmed.

 

[ProudObuch]

Dont forget that civs like Poles, Sicilians or Burgundy might not have Bloodlines, but still have one of the best knights there are (Cheaper, better armor or just cavalier in freaking castle age)

 

[Johnny Walrus]

I totally agree. I think it be more interesting to see cav with no bloodlines on a lot of these Civ match ups. Although with how easy it is to micro archers in this lagless era, maybe you need it to keep up.

 

[ChristheCo]

Dont forget that civs like Poles, Sicilians or Burgundy might not have Bloodlines, but still have one of the best knights there are (Cheaper, better armor or just cavalier in freaking castle age)

Both Sicilians and Poles do have bloodlines

 

[Philippe le Bon]

I totally agree. I think it be more interesting to see cav with no bloodlines on a lot of these Civ match ups. Although with how easy it is to micro archers in this lagless era, maybe you need it to keep up.

The Xbow/Arb meta also has developed because the devs, with all their legendary impartiality, let the archer-line as OP as it was in AoC

For example, I can't believe the """balance""" team since 2013 Forgotten kept Xbow upgrade to only 125F, 75G, Supplies, Bloodlines have comparable costs, but those are Feudal upgrades

Arb upgrade is also a steal btw, it's like a quarter of cumulated Cavalier/Paladin upgrades… meanwhile DE increased Elite Skirmisher upgrades from 200W 100G to 230W 130G, just madness.

It feels weird an unit so cheap and easy to upgrade/produce is that powerful and versatile. No wonder we rarely see Long Swordsmen, Steppe Lancers, Light Cav, UU Castle Age play when you can just pop Archery Ranges, put villagers on gold and mindlessly mass crossbows.


Only good thing recently is that the "CASTLE DROP IN YOUR FACE" play is getting more popular

 

[NuclearPasta]

The Xbow/Arb meta also has developed because the devs, with all their legendary impartiality, let the archer-line as OP as it was in AoC

For example, I can't believe the """balance""" team since 2013 Forgotten kept Xbow upgrade to only 125F, 75G, Supplies, Bloodlines have comparable costs, but those are Feudal upgrades

Arb upgrade is also a steal btw, it's like a quarter of cumulated Cavalier/Paladin upgrades… meanwhile DE increased Elite Skirmisher upgrades from 200W 100G to 230W 130G, just madness.

It feels weird an unit so cheap and easy to upgrade/produce is that powerful and versatile. No wonder we rarely see Long Swordsmen, Steppe Lancers, Light Cav, UU Castle Age play when you can just pop Archery Ranges, put villagers on gold and mindlessly mass crossbows.


Only good thing recently is that the "CASTLE DROP IN YOUR FACE" play is getting more popular

Plus the lag fixes in DE, while a massive improvement, has resulted in Archer units being infinitely easier to micro. You can abuse Crossbow frame delay to stop micro down an equally sized army of knights or eagles, and even scorpions get microed down with ease. The intended purpose of ballistics doesn't even work half the time, and yet archers are still the best unit in the game.

Just make 3 range Crossbow, you'll micro down any other army composition and still beat your opponent to Imp because you're not using any food.

 

[USC_kiky]

Mangonel and scorpions are supposed to hard-counter archers, but in really they can be dodged easily. Maybe we should just increase their attacking speed, accuracy, and area of damage, then the dominancy of archers will be fixed. This won't change their effect against buildings or knights, so it may be the right balance change we need.

 

[HongeyKong]

Mangonel and scorpions are supposed to hard-counter archers, but in really they can be dodged easily. Maybe we should just increase their attacking speed, accuracy, and area of damage, then the dominancy of archers will be fixed. This won't change their effect against buildings or knights, so it may be the right balance change we need.

This might be too not-aoe2, but allowing feudal workshop (yet unable toproduce anything until castle) might solve the problem?

Xbow = 25w 45g
Scorp = 75w 75g = 2 xbows
Mango = 160w 135g = 4 xbows

Siege does counter xbows in h2h fights with same resource, just that xbows usually have the number advantage that they can snowball.

 

[lecracheursagacite]

This might be too not-aoe2,

That hasn't seemed to be a problem recently 11

allowing feudal workshop (yet unable toproduce anything until castle) might solve the problem?

Xbow = 25w 45g
Scorp = 75w 75g = 2 xbows
Mango = 160w 135g = 4 xbows

Siege does counter xbows in h2h fights with same resource, just that xbows usually have the number advantage that they can snowball.

How much is that really getting you if you can build it in Feudal but still not produce anything until you hit Castle?

 

[SouFire]

About archers, with the low latency and how easy is to break formation and make you feel dumb using mangonels vs them, frame delay could balance those units, but i really doubt that anyone would like that change.

So its better to get used to the micro nerd meta and don't send siege units alone, you need 2-3 mangonels and even few scorps, but thoses defenses quickly fall behind when the enemy gets imperial+bracer.