I am not your friend - parasocial relationships with Twitch streamers

A super interesting video about Twitch and how people tend to develop one-sided connections to their favourite streamers. If you are either a viewer or a content creator I think this is absolutely worth to watch. What are your thoughts on this?

 

[dancingplague_1518]

These guys make some really interesting points. I think the vast majority of people on Twitch (and those who consume media generally) are doing so in the "right" way, that is to say, they are not forming unhealthy attachments with content creators. Much like the guy in the white shirt in the middle of the video said, I do think there is something excellent about the way that healthy online communities can form around positive individuals, in aoe we have a really good bunch of characters who I think create a really healthy environment for people to share their passion, there are many other examples out there as well (vlogbrothers on YouTube is one of my favourites, as is StandUpMaths, both have really wholesome online communities). These online communities can mean a lot to people, and they have real positive influences on their lives, and that shouldn't be overlooked.

Interesting food for thought though, thanks for sharing

 

[otw_Da]

I heard some intresting word choices here. Intresting video.
I took it a bit sad. Because we are so many people on this planet - the individual one has no value for the mass. And there are humans that are so alone that a twitch streamer is able just because he is there - to 'save his life'.
We can pick and choose what ever we want or like. There is less and less space for arrangement - to learn to get along well with each other.
The talk about natural behavior in a non-natural technocratic world. The big streamers need these parasocial people because their emotions means money.
Its an awkard co dependency.
Back in the days were all this internet contect was most of the time created for free I got hooked up and enjoyed it.
Today perspective spreads in my mind that I find it day to day more awkard that we sitting infront of our computers, use all these resources and energy to create value out of nothing. Just to enjoy and pass time by. They called it escaping from reality.
I find it sad that we created a world were the most of the human beings want to escape from and turn their brains off.
Millions of souls are dependent to continue their lifestyle from streaming. The argument about 'if you are not entertained - turn off' don't get me - because you could turn it a round and say - okay you cant handle these awkard or parasocial people - or these people that see you as a friend replacement - then stop streaming - ah that won't work because you can't stop beacuse you need the money.
Mad Man is a movie - goes a certain time and then its over. You are ah human being sitting in front of a camera. Everyday is new until life is over.
Hard to compare that. Or are there humans that get friendly conected to a movie? I don't think so.
Feels checkmate. Feels like a stuck dead end.
And there will always be more growth - bigger - wider. More room to milking.
Our target - infinity growth.

I don't know where all that came from but I felt it and wanted to type. I hope I was not to cryptic and people get what I wanted to say.

 

[IYIyTh]

Love it/the video, especially when the folks with the F U money like Ludwig can slang it.

It's a form of socialization for introverts, and a welcome distraction. Some people get invested into it, but mostly are using it as a form of escapism -- I certainly do on these forums in writing.

It's fun having a community but it is a bit funny sometimes seeing people respond incredulously when their favorite entertainer is brought up you'd think they were their lover in their infallibility.

The weird part is it becomes much more for some folks, and the dangerous part is some end up spending thousands on the experience of having your T.V. talk back to you -- or worse, putting off things they could be doing with their short time here on Earth otherwise that falls by the way side.

I guess sort of like OnlyFans, cheaper and less explicit -- but you still get ****ed. :D.

 

[Hunyadi_]

Kind of a douchebag, couldn't make it past minute 1.

It comes with the territory. You get attention of a lot of people, well some of them aren't going to be the most stable or balanced people. You go into the public eye at your own risk.

All kinds of celebs have stalkers and weird followers.

 

[oozkan]

To be honest, during kid/teenager times, that's quite normal. Those are the days people tend to be fan of something and addictively into it. Think about music bands or Bieber thing. My cousin was crazy about Nsync and one of the guys there. Her room was full of their pictures, she memorized all songs and even smaller scandals or others details in their life was putting her into misery, when Justin T pursued solo career she was full of hate. One of my closest friend had the same with Eminem, personally I never attached to music artists but I was myself a Kobe Bryant fan since playing basketball with all trainings takes up 4-6 hours per day for me. If I had a chance to interact Kobe, I would be same at that age. When he died, even my parents called me, a 30 years old guy called by parents, because of a sport star. Of course I felt sorry, but I felt more like losing a childhood friend that I lost contact. I still talk and respect to one of Americans in A team, who gave me his shoes so that I can use during U15 national team. I know kids in 60s were fan of astronauts. After certain age, I can understand why they and I were so attached, how that process began and why do they needed it. I still watch kids and their first meet with sport heros, quite funny videos actually. Here is one of them: Watch it

I am not gonna write a thousand letter article here and physchology behind it, but it is a process, and somehow it is quite normal process while a teenager creating its own character, finding their indentity. When you reach certain age and maturity, you will understand that you are actually a customer. If you can't pass that process, that's where the problem began. On the other hand, having an idol who is a succesful person is an invisible whip for kids to create their own ideals, something that gives them energy to pursue a dream.

 

[KoTR_Darkflame]

I think the reason why most of us involved either as streamers or watchers have this sort of ennui when it comes to the environment of twitch is because of the dichotomy between the nature of the platform to push "community" and the social disconnect between one person and their audience.

It's not so much like watching a film as it is going to a stand up comedy performance, only in a stand up performance you do not heckle. Conversely Twitch actively encourages e-heckling in the form of emotes or chat or subscriptions, where the streamer is obligated (in such a way as to maximise financial return) to engage more with those who contribute more.

So in one way, this guy is saying I am not your friend, I cannot care about you, but in another he is also saying - thank you individually for giving me money, and especially this guy who gave me more. To take that back to the standup comedy analogy, its like being able to tell a joke to the audience or be allowed to heckle if you have paid more for your ticket.

In Twitch It's not called a ticket, its called supporting a channel. You wouldn't consider a gig ticket as supporting. The terms that twitch streamers use are deliberately cute in this way. Its somewhat duplicitous. A true position would be to never acknowledge anyone individually, but then this would not maximise streamer revenue and even Twitch itself encourages the viewer to interact with the streamer

It's a really interesting social phenomena, and unfortunately one which takes advantage of those most vulnerable.

I gave T90 some quids once in HC4, because mostly I appreciated the hard work he put in to hosting and organising tournaments, and I hope that people who work with him receive that benefit also. I should really just be giving it to the players, but then that seems stranger for some reason.

 

[KoTR_Darkflame]

I am not gonna write a thousand letter article here and physchology behind it, but it is a process, and somehow it is quite normal process while a teenager creating its own character, finding their indentity. When you reach certain age and maturity, you will understand that you are actually a customer. If you can't pass that process, that's where the problem began. On the other hand, having an idol who is a succesful person is an invisible whip for kids to create their own ideals, something that gives them energy to pursue a dream.

The discussion between whether you are a customer or something more is currently quite a hot topic in English football, due to the structure and foundation of the clubs themselves. I think we became customers once the likes of Sky turned up (and paying customers too!) and took the game away from 'ot bovril on the terraces

 

[oozkan]

The discussion between whether you are a customer or something more is currently quite a hot topic in English football, due to the structure and foundation of the clubs themselves. I think we became customers once the likes of Sky turned up (and paying customers too!) and took the game away from 'ot bovril on the terraces

For football it is quite easy, everybody, every actor of football is earning money from football except fans. So you are definetely a customer, but somehow you feel closer ties to your team, like I also do. It is the concept of being part of something, a community that makes you feel good.

And if you look at it another way, as a customer you have influence on choices of companies, restaurants etc. In the end, they are trying to sell you something. Super League is a good example, they tried to sell something customers do not want, at least for now. Sadly enough, our kids will probably want that, customer preferences also change by time.

 

[amazing_knight]

It's good to know that there are at least discussions on these topics by big streamers.

Besides the one in discussion in the video, there are many such issues that may emerge as more and more people come to Twitch and spend a lot of their time there.

For people in their teenage, this may sometimes mean that their interaction with the outside world (friends. family etc) goes down severely, and they may tend to become more associated with this virtual community of the streamer's channel.

This may even increase when you start becoming a "known user" in this virtual community, say if you're a mod etc, so you spend even more time online since there's a psychological need associated with being known and recognised rather than being an unknown someone in a physical world.

There are perils associated with it, specially if you've created an online personality that's different from how you really are.

There are many other issues too. Sometimes, I feel fortunate that I had a childhood before Youtube and Twitch came around.

 

[Ser Pounce]

What a pompous ass. Within 40 seconds he has to remind you he has over 1 million subscribers.
This coming from the guy that does “sleep streams.” What an AMAZING content creator.
Zzzzzzzz

 

[IYIyTh]

What a pompous ass. Within 40 seconds he has to remind you he has over 1 million subscribers.
This coming from the guy that does “sleep streams.” What an AMAZING content creator.
Zzzzzzzz

It's almost like that this kind of behavior sells.

Is the streamer the problem, or the people watching?

It's alive and well in the AOE2 community, just like every other community.

 

[Spring_]

This doucher is technically right... Cus in my stream community we're a family.

 

[Double_N]

It is an interesting topic, altough I think it is pretty well known by now. Even if it is less well known than I thought, the hole concept of the video and how they talk is pretty confusing/annoying to me. I suppose that is how you have to talk to 14 year olds on twitch, but for a more mature forum, there has to be better, more educational content about this topic..

 

[MedievalLife]

The guy makes very valid points, and I did not find him arrogant at all. Everything he said was true.

 

[Sticky Ice Cream]

Get big enough to be a persona rather than a person, get an audience which is a persona rather than a person. Simple as. Oh, the video still speaks the truth. But the impossibility of having great success without attracting weirdos is also true. The choice is to put on a mask and become to a certain extent a trained deceiver in exchange for fame and fortune and whatever downfalls come with being a celebrity, or to have genuine relationships as a "nobody."

If there isn't a content creator like this already, I fully expect to one day hear about a particularly clever content creator becoming successful with an "I Am Not Your Friend" persona. There's a market out there for an entertainer like that already, I'm sure of it. It just needs the right man, in the right place, in the right time to draw it out.

 

[doacid]

Find yourself and stop clinging to others and living through them. That includes your family, kids and spouse.

Then actually find yourself so you can even stop clinging to your ideas, mental structures and beliefs. Regardless of how progressive, magnificent and positive you think they might be.

 

Giving this a bump as this topic came up again with some people lately. Also on Hera's stream yesterday someone asked if Hera comes to Heidelberg for RBW5 and if Hera wants to give that Twitch user a call that he can show him around. Hera reacted quite well, saying that he won't give a call, because he doesn't know him. But nevertheless I think it's worth for people to watch this video. Enjoy.

 

[Rayne]

Glad Hera declined that for his safety, just incase. No disrespect intended to that guy.

This is an interesting thing to me as I have loved psychology since I was around 12. Don’t study it as much as I used to, but topics that are thought inducing related to it are always of interest. I once seriously considered the field, and the field has been recommended to me multiple times in my life by others.


One thing that comes to me regarding this is a familiar saying. “Give someone an inch and they will take a mile.” I may sound douchey with that, but it seems appropriate to a large degree (been there done that myself too btw).


I have seen many things from streams I watched over the past 5 years. Male and female streams.

Like to start, there was a guy who never showed his streaming setup (he also lives a nice life to add). One day, he did. Then suddenly, immediately after many people (don’t even know how many but it was fast) wanted to know if he would do a cooking stream, IRL stream, house tour etc. Seen that sort of thing with another guy I watch these days who just did one of his first few cooking streams.

Then a female streamer who I have watched grow. She didn’t like being asked usual questions like boyfriend, where do you live, etc. She didn’t like being awkwardly told she was attractive (can’t say how many times I saw this during a period of 1 hour). One day, she tells a story of her ex long ago because, I suppose she sort of felt more connected to her viewer base. You can sort of guess where it is going. I saw more questions being asked that certainly weren’t welcomed. Most being “are you single?” to blatant sexual things I don’t recall seeing before (or just timing?) to “do you have an instagram?” (can we sound off the creep alarm?). Because she briefly let her I suppose you can say, guard down, things happened that otherwise didn’t often.

It just proves that people are always desiring more. I don’t necessarily think it is a bad thing, but sometimes some want more to the point where they want to see how far they get to the edge of a cliff before they fall off. As far as twitch goes. Could drift off with that too, but I should keep it to streaming.


People are spending how much of their time viewing streams. A few hours? 8 hours? 12? How many days a week are they doing that? All I can say is xqc always seems to have 50-60k all the time, and I am wondering do people who watch that stream work? But the point I’d make is you spend so much time watching a stream, it is basically becoming a large part of your life. So along with that, if you like the guy/girl streamer, naturally you’d want to know more, yes?

You spend so much time at say work or school, you probably meet your girlfriend, wife, or best friend there as well. Or you spend time in this community, playing this game who knows how many hours, you’re probably forming relationships with players you regularly play with. I know I have at least. I’m glad to have come to know a lot of players/people, and you all know who you are.

So it makes sense when a streamer acts friendly (which is part of the job, some really genuine), you like them, they answer your donation message, acknowledge your existence, and you probably want some type of relationship with them. Especially more time you’re there. They may have all the traits you wanted in a person (like how it’s mentioned with Ludwig, which btw, I am a fan of him). Suddenly you want them to show their food, ask that girl if she has an Instagram, or if that guy would ever do an IRL stream. Or if he prefers boxers or briefs (actually saw this) or you’ll see a viewer telling him to fix his posture (even hair I once saw). And if they answer you, there’s stuff ‘blooming’. I know teenagers were mentioned, but it is not just them. From what I have seen across streams, it seems the average viewing age is somewhere from 15-25 (streamers I watched which were a few asked, plus you can tell a to a degree by how people talk). I’ve seen a guy in his thirties give off the vibes too.

But sadly though, this is all something of an illusion. I don’t mind admitting there’s some guys I have watched that I would like to get to know, but I know it won’t happen. I am also pretty much a lurker unless I am a friend of the streamer, because I don’t believe in asking personal questions to streamers (or even viewers for the most part) I am not friends with.


On a last note as I have written more than I thought I would, there is another thing. I believe it can all be explained neurologically too. I used to study neuroscience around 6 years ago. Not as well-versed (if I could even say that) in it as I used to be. Something with how connections are being constantly formed with the hippocampus (memory), pre-frontal lobes (emotions, left postive, right negative), amygdala (generally related to fear, but it is what has a role in emotions becoming active iirc), visual cortex, and who knows what else I am probably forgetting like synapses maybe, something with an s with how information is being relayed. The more time you’re watching an enjoyable stream, the more time your brain is going to get programmed with all those things. I.e., I watch Ludwig (seeing, visual cortex), he’s likable and I enjoy being there (left pre-frontal lobe activation with amygdala assisting and hippocampus for next visit so you remember he was previously enjoyable). But the more you’re there, and the more time you are spending there too, the stronger the connections are becoming. To the point where you have little or even no control. And you’ll probably want something more from him in time.

 

[Hunyadi_]

I mean I think we should view them as entertainers. It's a profession if you will. So treat it as such. I wouldn't go up to a construction worker and ask him to go for a beer. Or the person I called to fix my internet. Not gonna ask if they want to hang out. So why would I ask that of a streamer?

Sure we can see their face and to some degree interact with them but that doesn't mean we're friends now lol. I guess some people have difficulty around the concepts of friendships or human interpersonal relationships in general.

 

[Influenza]

It depends on the streamer. I have seen many twitch streamers who have monetary barriers to friendship and others who have such barriers to more-than-friendship. Are these friendships hollow? Possibly.

 

[IRC_tomate]

...Jeez I got no friends then

I was much happier before I ended up in this thread 11

 

[IYIyTh]

...Jeez I got no friends then

I was much happier before I ended up in this thread 11

If one has nothing nice to say....

 

[iViktorius]

If one has nothing nice to say....

Then why are you commenting?

 

[SuperskinnyBLS]

Your only streamer friend is Miiiiiiiguel