Hypothetically how do you feel about increasing starting villager numbers

[Instinctz]

Increasing the number of starting villagers in the game from 3 something else?

Not as drastic as say Empire Wars, but imagine starting with 6 villagers instead of 3?

I think it would be cool to see it tested, but doubt such a change would ever happen gamewide, at best it would be a particular map that gets such a function.

 

[archxeon]

Increasing the number of starting villagers in the game from 3 something else?

Not as drastic as say Empire Wars, but imagine starting with 6 villagers instead of 3?

I think it would be cool to see it tested, but doubt such a change would ever happen gamewide, at best it would be a particular map that gets such a function.

Deep Water League has that. Doesn't seem to change the game too much as a viewer. Shortens dark age.

 

[Huehuecoyotl22]

The developers of the Forgotten Empires mod considered it in 2012, it was not liked much back then, but so were many other balance changes.
I think we need it tested in a big tournament with many viewers again to give a better evaluation.
Maps where it definitely is a good option are custom Nomad start maps.

 

[Fall]

The problem with Empire Wars is that it skipped too much.

6 vill start with 1 sheep under TC has no downsides as far as I can see however, and could easily become the new standard in RM if implemented.

Edit: Maybe Chinese civ bonus would need to be looked at.

 

[HongeyKong]

The problem with Empire Wars is that it skipped too much.

6 vill start with 1 sheep under TC has no downsides as far as I can see however, and could easily become the new standard in RM if implemented.

Edit: Maybe Chinese civ bonus would need to be looked at.

Mayans and Indians as well.

 

[LowEloNobody]

Deep Waters League has been testing this exact concept. Seems to work well. Faster dark age bit dark age still matters.

 

[Huehuecoyotl22]

Deep Waters League has been testing this exact concept. Seems to work well. Faster dark age but dark age still matters.

I agree, but I think it also depends on the map it is and the game mode, like in 4v4 or 3v3. Or on maps where players start close together, there might be a greater effect than on maps like Islands or Arena, where you very rarely drush or douche or even scout the enemy's base.

 

[LowEloNobody]

I agree, but I think it also depends on the map it is and the game mode, like in 4v4 or 3v3. Or on maps where players start close together, there might be a greater effect than on maps like Islands or Arena, where you very rarely drush or douche or even scout the enemy's base.

I don't know why it would have different effects. It just fast forwards dark age by 2 minutes

 

[Philippe le Bon]

Ever heard of the Chinese?

 

[LowEloNobody]

Ever heard of the Chinese?

Sure? But that's a vil advantage over your opponent. This is all players starting with 3 additional vils.

 

[Huehuecoyotl22]

I don't know why it would have different effects. It just fast forwards dark age by 2 minutes

Generally yes, but on maps with close starts, people for example might send villagers forward to lame very early more often.

 

[warownia]

Could you change the title so it refers to the question asked in the thread?

 

[HongeyKong]

I don't know why it would have different effects. It just fast forwards dark age by 2 minutes

Pop space and starting resources slightly affects early aggression on open maps.

EDIT:
For example, assuming starting resources remain unchanged while starting vils get increased, you sacrifice less for instant lame. You have more available vils to scout (or lame) in the worst case scenario. BF vil wars might also get affected a lot.

If the game stars with 6 extra vils (9 in total) and 2 extra houses, players start with 5 pop space instead of the standard 1, which might also affect the builds.

 

[xdreamlegendx]

shortening dark age slightly (while keeping balance) is not a bad idea imo however I am a DM player so I can't comment

 

[Potkeny]

It just fast forwards dark age by 2 minutes

How would that affect scouting? Not a lot on arena I guess, but what about arabia/other open-maps?

 

[IYIyTh]

I feel like people who want this should play EmpireWars.

EmpireWars is a flawed game because the game is not balanced around a feudal-age start, and units like eagles or certain eco bonuses fundamentally alter the viability of certain civilizations.

The games civilizations and bonuses are developed around four distinct ages.

Eliminating / removing one from the game fundamentally changes the balance of the game and in my opinion reduces strategy and logical buildup, effectively creating a new game mode vs. the one we all have loved and played since the beginning of aoe2, which happens to be very successful based on all indicators.

I would also argue the continued deconstruction of defensive play (what are we at, 5-6 nerfs to walls/buildings since DE came out?) also alters this fundamental balance that makes random civ a fun thing to play. As a result, replicability is harmed -- a fundamental tenet of AOE2's continued success. I liked when I could random a civ and build an effective strategy either with defensive or offensive play. Now early pressure is required or else you will spend 3-400 res and 3 minutes of idle eco time to play defensively for what it cost another player 250 and a minute of idle eco time, mindlessly sending early units forward.

 

[oozkan]

Poor Dark age, nobody wants you.

While everybody is trying to speed up game, DM is always considered niche, even removed from ladder.

 

[HyunaOP]

POV. You want a combination between empire wars and regicide fortress game mode settings

 

[derpina276]

As said before i think scouting info is the biggest issue with this. 60 seconds of scouting missed makes it harder to find your opponent in time and in this way will make the game slightly more inbalanced imo. This really does matter a lot sometimes especially in the m@a an 2 militia drush meta.

 

[LowEloNobody]

As said before i think scouting info is the biggest issue with this. 60 seconds of scouting missed makes it harder to find your opponent in time and in this way will make the game slightly more inbalanced imo. This really does matter a lot sometimes especially in the m@a an 2 militia drush meta.

I think you can somewhat balance this by increasing the amount of space that is scouted around the TC to reflect what would be scouted if you circled the TC in the time it took to create the extra vils

 

[Paint]

I have made some Random Maps with extra vills and found that 8 or 13 is the best because you can start with 1 or 2 houses and still have to research loom first with Mayans.

 

[akku]

I love what DWL has tried with this.
We still have dark age, which is an integral part, with possibilities of militias and so on. While also simultaneously making the game a bit faster

Feels like we'll just skip 3 or so minutes ahead.

Hopefully will see more tournaments try this

 

[The Bloodless]

I'm opposed to it. Also opposed to sheep starting in line of sight. Or in the case of empire wars, under the tc. Might as well start with map explored, or with all herdables/huntables under tc.

 

[warownia]

I'm opposed to it. Also opposed to sheep starting in line of sight. Or in the case of empire wars, under the tc. Might as well start with map explored, or with all herdables/huntables under tc.

Is this so the more skilled players who were lucky enough to find them right in the start are rewarded unlike less skilled players who couldnt guess the direction of initial ship with their scout and villagers?

 

[akku]

I'm opposed to it. Also opposed to sheep starting in line of sight. Or in the case of empire wars, under the tc. Might as well start with map explored, or with all herdables/huntables under tc.

I see where you're coming from, but why are you against sheep starting in LOS?
This is necessary for a competitive games to reduce RNG. You still have to scout for the reaming 4 sheep, which are susceptible to be lamed.